No, not all annuals are cut and come again, though many are. You need to look up each flower to see if they can be cut or not.

Also be aware that if you have more than one variety of a particular flower in your garden they will likely cross-pollinate and their seed not be true to the parent plant. Like your zinnias and marigolds- they will cross pollenate and the seed from them might have traits of either/or the parent plants.

also .. it is basically sept ... most of the summer loving full sun plants.. tend to peak and start declining about now ... not only because cooler nights are coming .. but also because of the declination of the sun.. which is ma natures way of turning things off ..

i dont know where you are.. so that is a bit of speculation...

anyway .. and once they start setting seed.. there isnt going to be a lot of time to deadhead them .. and start new growth that will actually come to bloom ...

you want an easy all encompassing answer .. but with all the variables.. there really isnt one ..

one way to learn is to experiment.. just start cutting down some of the really ugly ones .. but leaves a few .. and see if you can coax them back to fall bloom ... and good luck remembering what you learn next year.. lol ...

most 'named cultivars' .. those with name in quotes .. will not come true from seed ... but most of the natives will ... because.. after all.. thats what they do outside a garden ... as mentioned above.. its a genetics thing ...

ken

beesneeds, I didn't know that! I've got at least 10 different varieties of zinnias planted. Should I assume that the seed won't be true next year? Is there any way to keep this from happening? I especially love 'unicorn mix' zinnias and want to plant even more next year. I've already saved a few seed heads...I'd hate to plant them in the spring and have them come up as something else.

ken_adrian, I'm in south-central Indiana. Still in the upper 80s/90s during the day and 70s at night. Actually really looking forward to that cool down. :) I'll go ahead and try that experiment and I guess I'll need to start googling all the things that I'm planning for next year to see if they can be picked over and over. Drat, I was hoping for that easy answer! :)

I used to sell bouquets at the farmer's market and had a large cutting garden. I have found in my experience (and actually just mentioned this in a thread elsewhere) that even though I always assumed annuals bloomed all summer, they do seem to have a bloom season. For instance my market didn't start till June, and by then things like craspedia, sweet peas, and poppies bloomed too early for me to use them, unless I did succession sowing, which I didn't have time for (was working four jobs at the time! Phew!) (I did successively sow sunflowers for awhile because these were big sellers.) Zinnias and rudbeckias weren't quite ready or prolific in June. Other things like chinese asters (which are gorgeous for bouquets) didn't really start blooming till late August for me.

So I went (and go) with the flow. I plant all the flowers I liked and used them as they bloomed, almost like perennials. So my bouquets, that I still always make for myself or to bring to work, change as the summer goes on.

Might I recommend if you love bouquets to grow dahlias? They actually are just starting to really get going bloom-wise for me here in CT, but last well into September and for me even into October, and they are beautiful in bouquets. Lilies too, if you are not afflicted with the dreaded red lily leaf beetle.

Sorry I can't help with the seed saving part of your question. Other than letting things self-seed, I always buy new seed. Just never had the time or desire to save my own. Good luck!

:)
Dee

Dee - thanks so much for your advice. I just planted dahlias for the first time this year and they're just opening up now - a bit late, I'm afraid, because I started them early in pots and was late getting them in the ground (root bound). My husband just built me a potting barn with tall stacks of shelving for seed-starting flats so I'm going to try succession planting next year. We are self-employed and summer tends to be a bit slow, so it's the perfect time to throw myself into this experiment. For starters, I'm going to do 2 waves of planting: one early (mid-March in flats) and another direct-sow, after our last frost date. I'm looking forward to it!

Drat, I was hoping for that easy answer! :)

==>>>

yeah we all do ... and guess what.. there rarely is one... lol ...

the usual is.. the more you learn.. the more you realize there is more you dont know... lol ...

i dont get why some of you are surprised that certain plants have set flowering periods.. its the whole point of succession of bloom planning ... we really dont expect tulips all season .. nor early ephemerals ... and then plant annual over them .. etc ....

so.. .. its early ephemerals ... tulips then daffs ... then the late spring perennials ... then the summer plants ... then the late summer plants.. then the fall plants ... its all part of the ever changing flower garden ... [in my MI anyway...]

it was a lot trickier doing it with shrubs ... and flowering trees ...

ken

Diggerdee, I did winter sow this past year, but was disappointed with the results. I used big plastic spinach tubs...drilled 8 - 12 one quarter inch holes in the top and same in the bottom. Planted them mid-winter. Even though the holes were only quarter inch, I felt like they were pummeled by rain in spring. Soil was always soaked. Seeds rotted. I used a damp but not sopping soil mix to start with...not sure where I went wrong. I'd say my germination rate was only about 25%. Any tips?

Ken, we're talking annuals here, and I think the surprise comes in because let's face it, general market advertising (not commercial grower targeted advertising) is always pushing how annuals have summer-long bloom, and they really don't. At least not in my experience. Hence the reason I now treat them as I do perennials, expecting a "bloom period" and that's that, unless I do succession sowing.

I think most people's experience with annuals starts with impatiens and petunias and wax begonias, the standard garden-center, patio-pot plants. Then when folks learn of the huge wide world of annuals that are really available, and attempt to grow them, they think in terms of having those wax begonias that pump out all summer, when (again, in my experience) most annuals just don't do that. And hence the surprise and disappointment. Just my two cents

bosewichte I'm sorry you had such disappointing results with wintersowing! I have about a 75% to 95% germination rate on most things, often 100% on some things but sometimes as bad as 10% on others (bells of ireland I'm looking at you!!). Your containers look to be of a decent size, and I don't think you overdid it (or underdid it) with the holes, so I'm not sure why you had issues. Although your soil levels look a bit low but hard to really tell from that photo. Could it have been an excessively rainy spring? Were the containers constantly sitting in water? I just put mine out on the driveway so it's not like I have them up off the ground, so there's no special drainage situation going on for mine. I will say that I use gallon and half gallon plastic milk/water jugs almost exclusively. I've experimented with other containers and these work best for me, but a lot of that advantage is in size, sturdiness, portability, etc.; I feel like your containers should have worked well.

I'm sorry I don't have a better answer for you but I would encourage you to try at least a few more containers this winter. Maybe experiment with different containers, with number of holes, placement of them (for instance, maybe fewer holes on top and more on bottom to promote drainage. One thing I do with my milk jugs is not only put holes on the bottom, but also on the SIDES along the bottom; this way if the ground freezes or bottom holes get blocked, the side holes may help with drainage.) The whole reason I began selling flowers at market was because of the great success I had with wintersowing. I had more flowers than I ever imagined and was encouraged by the local farmer to sell. So I hope you try again and maybe it will work for you!

And by sheer coincidence, this morning I decided to recycle a stack of some old market gardener magazines that have been sitting on a shelf for almost ten years. An excellent publication but let's face it, most of us go to Google when we need answers, not old magazines. Well, of course I spent the last three hours reading, lol, and now not wanting to throw them away! But I bring this up because there is an article about succession sowing, and the author has a list of some of the most productive flowers she grows, divided into three categories - cut and come again, medium producers, and one-shot wonders. I thought of you and if you'd like I'd be happy to give the list here. I was going to take a picture of the article and post it but then thought about copyright issues. But let me know if this list would help you - keeping in mind the farmer does do some succession planting.

:)
Dee

I think some confusion arises from nomenclature. Many of the plants marketed as annuals with long bloom seasons, including the impatiens, petunias and wax begonias mentioned above are not, botanically speaking, annuals. They’re tender perennials whose warm native habitats allow year round growth, hence their ability to flower for long periods. True annuals are programmed to grow, flower, set seed and die within a fairly short period. They perpetuate themselves by quickly producing offspring. Hence they don’t need to bloom constantly.

That is an excellent point floral! Yes, of course that is something to consider as well. Any good catalog/website will include that info, but whether we read it carefully is another thing! LOL

:)
Dee

Diggerdee, that is excellent advice. I still have these original containers so I might just tape over the middle row of holes and add the side holes...and increase soil levels. I'd say that I had about 3 - 4" of soil inside, and the containers were probably 7" tall. Do you think that maybe they aren't big enough? They were sitting in gravel so had good drainage. I wonder if maybe I made the soil too damp to start with. It was wet enough to hold together in a ball but not so wet that water would drip out if you squeezed it. I will try again. I had miserable luck with trying to cold-stratify my perennial seeds in the freezer this year too - almost not germination. So either they succeed with the next winter sowing cycle or they're tossed! We don't drink milk so no milk jugs...I've read about people having luck with big kiddie plastic pools, too.

I would LOVE that list! I have googled "best cutting garden flowers" but I get general categories and the assumption seems to be: plant these and they'll bloom all summer long. That was my general expectation with all annuals but I can see that I have some research ahead!

Bosewichte, 3-4" of soil sounds like plenty. Your containers didn't look as tall as they really are, so I thought it was only an inch or two, allowing for settling. And the moisture level sounds like it was okay too, so I'm not sure what to tell you except try playing with the holes. FYI, I usually do about 200-225 containers, and while I drink a LOT of milk, lol, I don't drink THAT much! I ask my coworkers and friends to start saving jugs for me every fall, and I usually get more than I need - I even do a program on Wintersowing at the library and they bring me in enough for that too. And in the past I've posted on sites like freecycle to ask for jugs. I've even been known to stop when I see a couple good ones on the side of the road the morning of recycling pickup lol. I have NOT, however, gotten to the point where I rummage through the neighborhood recycling bins, though there are die-hard wintersowers who do haha. 2-liter soda bottles are fairly good to use too, although IMO they need a bit more work to prepare the container.

BTW, you can wintersow seeds that need cold stratification without the freezer/fridge. You can wintersow them early in fall, and they will get the warm-cold-warm cycle they need. I haven't done this too often, but I do remember I did aquilegia this way successfully.

I'll get you that list later today. I have some errands and painting to do (picked a wet, humid day to paint but oh well, it's gotta get done!) and then I'll write up the list. It's not very big, but it will be food for thought!

:)
Dee

Diggerdee, I can't get over how beautiful your bouquets are - and that you grew them yourself! Care to share your source (or is it a trade secret?) for buying seeds?😎 Thank you so much for sharing the pics!

Thank you so much! Unfortunately I never took photos of the ones I sold (had a cheap flip phone back then lol) which were MUCH bigger than the ones I pictured above, and had much more variation - the flowers last year were all geared towards my daughters wedding. Stupidly, didn't take any of the flowers I did for the wedding! Duh! But I was up till 2am the night before making them up so guess I just didn't think of it.

Anyway, my favorite seed sources are Johnny's, which is a bit expensive but I find them to be good quality and lots of organic seed available. They also have very good growing information on their site. Pinetree (for smaller packs at cheaper prices), Swallowtail (for bigger packs, lol, at good prices - but you don't always need 500 seeds of anything, hence Pinetree). I also like Select Seeds although they are a bit pricey. The farmers I know use Fedco a lot too; I haven't but it's just because I usually order from the others first and don't think of looking at Fedco! I've used Territorial as well in the past but not so much now, just because I don't grow as much as I used to and can get what I need from the above three places.

For dahlias, which I never grew in any great quantity, I used to use Swan Island or Dan's for the occasional tuber, (and still do use them) but last year when I did the wedding flowers I was looking around at other places for LOTS of dahlias and found Longfield Gardens. I really liked the quality of their tubers and their prices are reasonable. I got some calla lilies there too, which was a first for me. They bloomed too early for the wedding flowers but I liked them in bouquets.

The bouquets I have pictures of were actually many of the first, shorter flowers, which I cut immediately to encourage more and longer stems/blooms, and the purpose of all the photos was to show my daughter the colors and varieties and arrangements of what I was growing so she could approve/disapprove. A few more photos- not to show off, lol, but to inspire folks that even short little flowers can be lovely in small bouquets. Even in pickle jars lol.

:)
Dee

bosewichte, here is the list of flowers this author/farmer, Erin Benzakein, gave in her article, as well as the number of sowings she did per year. Obviously as a professional grower she sows a lot more and a lot more often than a home grower, but I thought it was good info to share.

Cut and come again:

Ageratum: Blue Horizon, Blue Sensation, Everest Blue. 3-4 plantings

Ammi majus & ammi visagna - 3 plantings visagns & 4 of majus

Basil - 4 plantings

Dianthus Amazon - 5 plantings - she doesn't really care forthe color but says its a workhorse!

Fiber Optic Grass - five plantings

Malope/Lavatera - 4
plantings

Rudbeckia triloba - 3 plantings (one of my personal
favorites too!)

Zinnias - 2 plantings (limited due to her season - she is planning a third crop in the hoophouse to extend)

Medium producers

Amaranth - 3-4 plantings

Bachelor buttons - 4-5 plantings

Bells of Ireland - 5-6 plantings

Cerinthe - 5 plantings; she notes she does smaller batches because it's so prolific she can't keep up with it.

Godetia - 5 plantings - "wildly productive" -another one she does in small batches

Larkspur - 3-4 plantings

Millet - she starts with plugs in spring then about 3 directsowings every 2-3 weeks

Nigella - 6 plantings

One Shot Wonders

Buplerum - 6-8 sowings

Cress, lepidium sativum - 6-8 sowings

Flax, linium perenne - 6 plantings

Lilies - she gets monthly bulb shipments Jan-July

Stock - 4-6 plantings including two early hoophouse sowings

Sunflowers - sowings every 10 days March through July

I would strongly encourage you to look at her blog at floretflowers.com. This article (and several others I read by her in this publication) was from 2012(!!) but I am happy to see she is still in business and I'm sure she has updated info regarding varieties and tips, etc. I see she has written a few books as well. Her website is lovely and makes me miss growing for market! Of course I had nowhere near her room to grow and never grew on that scale. Must be nice to have so many plants that you can afford to take a two foot stem for a single flower and not worry about the future blooms you are losing by doing so, lol. But her site is quite inspirational. Enjoy it!

:)
Dee

P.S. Her monthly bulb shipments intrigue me. I didn't know you could succession-grow lilies to that extent. I had bulk lilies in crates, but never staggered them; just used the same bulbs every year and cut them when they bloomed; I had lilies that bloomed at various times to stagger that way. I have since gotten the red lily leaf beetle now so lilies are difficult now anyway. :(

Some things do depend. I'm...well, uninterested in plants that don't keep blooming from start to finish.

This isn't a great year, and this is only one edge of the gardens, but so far I'd say that it still doesn't look bad in terms of "never give up."

DiggerDee, oops! I forgot to mention your beautiful bouquets. I was jotting off a quick message yesterday before leaving for the day. So pretty! Thanks so much for the info. And I love Floret Farms. Her fall sale is September 1st and I will be at my keyboard with fingers ready. ;) I had a lot of discouragement this year with planting but I'm really hoping for a better 2021. I'll take this info down. As a non-seller who only needs bouquets for personal use and giving out, I am planning to do...2 sowings? One in March and one in May? I will read up on succession planting to see the recommendation for the 'home' grower. Do you have a recommendation for soil mix for your winter sowing? Last year I think I used straight potting soil...possibly too heavy for the seeds.

Diggerdee, can I also ask what you liked to use as filler plants for your bouquets? I grow lots of mint and lemon balm...tall stems, lasts forever in bouquets...also use big cuttings of basil in smaller bouquets. Smells great and actually roots after a while. Any tips on getting longer-lasting bouquets? What I do is replace the water every other day and when I replace, I trim all stems a bit. Most bouquets last at least 4 days and some a whole week, depending on flower.

bosewichte, I usually use ProMix for my wintersowing. I think the potting mix is the most important part of WSing. I've used some cheaper stuff and just didn't have the same results.

I'm sure 2 sowings of most things would be good for us home gardeners. Obviously we don't need 4-5 or 8(!) sowings, but I thought I'd include that info to show how much she does to get flowers throughout the season.

For longer lasting bouquets, try to cut the flowers early in the morning (you can google what stage to cut specific flowers - some say half open, some open, etc.), and put directly into water. IMO, one of the most important things is to let the flowers condition. That means to let them sit for a few hours in a cool spot before arranging them. I had a couple of old refrigerators in my garage when I was selling, now I just put them in the coolest spot I can find (if my bedroom AC was on during the night, sometimes I stick the flowers in the still-cool room), sometimes on the patio in the shade, etc. Since they're just for me it doesn't matter. If I'm making a bouquet for someone I will turn on the AC just for the flowers lol. For my daughter's wedding I got a window unit and turned my daughter's old bedroom into a walk-in cooler. I was freezing while arranging lol but wanted the flowers to look good!

Anyway, after they've conditioned I recut the stems, trim the foliage and arrange. And yes, change the water every few days and trim the stems. Even without flower food many flowers should last at least a week.

For fillers I love feverfew (several varieties) in the spring, and also gomphrena, statice, and agastache (I think I have Honey Bee Blue). I like to use ageratum, Queen Anne's Lace, buplerum, several different celosias and amaranths. And dill is beautiful as well. I use goldenrod in the fall (and have had many argument- er, discussions lol, with people who wrongly accuse me of using ragweed, but the goldenrod is beautiful in fall arrangements, IMO. I will often use anything I can find - I cut variegated caryopteris branches, stems from shrubs (forsythia, yews, etc.), even hosta leaves - one big bold leaf can be dramatic. I even have used that weedy grass that looks like a little cattail and crabgrass "blooms" when I was desperate for fillers! One fall I cut some bittersweet with the orange berries to use. I couldn't get rid of the darn stuff in my yard so I figured I might as well use what's available.

I've used herbs before too - basil, mint, even oregano - but not too often. I can never decide whether the scent complements or fights with the scent of the flowers. It depends what flowers I'm using, I guess. And I don't grow enough basil to share it with my flowers and with my husband the cook, haha. And mint, well, I'm just afraid to plant it, lol. But they are all lovely fillers.

:)
Dee

Diggerdee, feverfew is a lovely idea! I had one small feverfew plant this year but was able to collect a lot of seeds. I'm ordering 'Snowball' feverfew from Floret this winter. This was also my 1st year in growing gomphrena and I've been really pleased. It lasts forever in bouquets and is a nice accent. We've got a field of goldenrod here (got to double check to make sure it's not ragweed - ha!) - so I will try adding a sprig or two!

I wonder if my generic potting soil (probably plain Miracle Grow) was too dense and heavy and that's why my winter sowing didn't do well. I will definitely try Pro Mix this year.

Great tips about the flower 'conditioning.' Sometimes it takes me 30 min or more to pick for a bouquet (gardens spread out) and the 1st ones picked are often pretty wilted by the time I finally get them in water. They usually perk up, but it takes a while. I read online that some people actually store their bouquets in the fridge overnight to make them last longer, but I definitely don't have room or time to gather them all up...but it's good to know about them loving the cool!

Excited about this upcoming growing season...thanks so much for the tips!

That feverfew Snowball looks like one of my favorites, feverfew Virgo. I love it. Feverfew is somewhat difficult to work with as the "branches" tangle and then bend easily, but so worth the extra effort to be careful!

MANY years ago before I went over to organic gardening I used Miracle Grow and it was one of the better potting mixes. I then used a bag about five years ago when in mid-winter I was desperate for some potting mix, and I was disappointed to find that it was chunky and not as "fine' as it used to be. But then again I guess it's used for a variety of things - using that to pot up plants on your patio is different than starting seeds, after all. It's possible they have an actual "seed-starting" mix - I know several companies do have specific mixes. But definitely don't cheap out on the potting mix. Again, mid-winter there have been times when I've had to get what I could, and some of the cheap ones are like growing in cement lol.

Good luck! Have fun with the seed catalogs this fall!

:)
Dee

P.S. Also, one thing I do if I know I will be cutting for awhile, is I bring a few containers out to the garden with me. I always try to put the containers in SOME kind of shade as I cut, even if it's just the shade of the plant I'm cutting from. Then even before that container is fully filled, I'll move it to more substantial shade and cut into the next container. *I* often wilt in the sun, lol, even in the morning, so I can only imagine how the flowers feel haha. Especially now since I don't condition as carefully for myself, I am more careful about the cuts being out in the sun.

Ken, we're talking annuals here, and I think the surprise comes in because let's face it, general market advertising (not commercial grower targeted advertising) is always pushing how annuals have summer-long bloom, and they really don't.

==>>> came back to review this this morn.. and floral nailed it ...

what i call an annual.. is often a perennial in its native climes.. or warmer zones ...

so you have to do your own research.. which you are by this post.. to figure it all out ... dont rely on packet info and marketing claims ...

anyway.. your pix indicate you re way beyond the newb phase.. which was the point of my post ... soooo... keep up gods work ..

ken

to save readers time.. scanning way up .... here is what floral said:

I think some confusion arises from nomenclature. Many of the plants marketed as annuals with long bloom seasons, including the impatiens, petunias and wax begonias mentioned above are not, botanically speaking, annuals. They’re tender perennials whose warm native habitats allow year round growth, hence their ability to flower for long periods. True annuals are programmed to grow, flower, set seed and die within a fairly short period. They perpetuate themselves by quickly producing offspring. Hence they don’t need to bloom constantly.

Diggerdee, I planted 'Snowball' last year but no growth...just a botched job all around. I think I still have some seeds left...need to go through my seed binders and get organized for seed trading this fall. :) I need to read up on growth needs/planting times for everything...eek! I wish I was more confident about perennials. I just haven't had much luck. Maybe winter sowing will be better this year?

I'm pretty sure that the Miracle Grow I used was just generic potting soil, not seed starting. I'm definitely going to be more careful this year!

We've got those 5-gallon buckets from the hardware store, so I will start carrying that with me when I go for bouquets. The issue is that I pick a lot of very short buds for smaller bouquets, and really tall ones that I trim to size. Going to have to get creative so that my little ones don't drown in there! :)

Bosewichte I have issue with the size of containers too lol! For the shorter blooms I just use mason jars, jelly jars, even a glass from my kitchen cupboard. Whatever works!

Ken, you're absolutely right, and floral was too - she nailed it!

:)
Dee