IMO Definitely in groups.

I think they are fine single or grouped. If single, I'd try to have another few scattered around.

I'm not crazy about the shape in the photo which looks like a multi fingered candlelabra. I got that effect when I cut back the single flower (I don't remember what I was trying to accomplish) It just looked stumpy and less graceful . Somehow lost the graceful proportion that,is, for me, the defining characteristic of the plant. I know there are a few different colors but I wish the lavendar was a bit cleaner.

Marie, my poor plant now must seek counselling for its hurt feelings, for having grown up as nature has intended and not receiving a snip or nip until it had been deadheaded ... LOL :) ... indeed interesting how we all like different things, most all folks are stopped in their tracks by this plant, even now after being deadheaded, the foliage remains very attractive.

Marie, we all do have very individual tastes on what we like. I sometimes confuse myself, thinking that I don't like a lot of things, but it's just that I think I'm looking for what I 'love' which is different. I actually do 'like' a lot of things, but those that I 'love' seem to be a very small exclusive club. [g] And I think we can't make ourselves love something that we don't.

FrozeBudd, your poor plant has nothing to seek counseling for. Even plants have to accept that not everyone is going to love them. [g]. When I looked at your photo, I thought WOW! I don't have any Culver's Root and it actually is in the exclusive club of plants that I love. And yours looks luscious, like the rest of your garden that I've seen. I'd be thrilled to have that plant and any section of my garden look that great after all this horrid heat and drought this year. I can tell you work hard in your garden and do a great job keeping it looking fresh and well tended.

All mine grow exactly like that.

For me, it's ridiculously slow to clump, thus I say groups :) Because one lone wand looks ridiculous (to me). After four years, I'm finally at 3 or 4 stalks.

I have one and due to its size, I would say for clumping you'd need a large garden. I inherited mine and it's more white. I'm pretty sure Marie's thoughts were focused on her past pruning experience, as she clearly states the plant has graceful proportions, and are not a criticism of Froze Budd's beautiful plant. The photo seems to have been only a starting point and not the focus.

I inherited mine. it's in the neglected bed. I plan on getting to it "next year." Every year that is my plan. Next year. I'm glad it keeps surviving as I would hate to lose it.

One benefit of groups for me is it masses the flowers together in the eye. The shape is similar to Actea (bugbane), but I have massed those because I have found it difficult to visually work with the limited flowers from each individual plant. My plants are young, so possibly each plant will be more productive. This year certainly is looking to be one with many blooms. But, it is nice when the flower is so thin and tall to have a large grouping to look at. Also, this is my first experience (as I still consider myself a fairly new gardener) with these plants, so my design skills are developing!

IMO Definitely in groups.

I agree as well but these plants, when measuring across the top,take up a lot of space and I say better one than none!

Looking at FrozeBudd's picture and comparing to mine I see that a singleton looks extra good when surrounded at its base by other plants so that the CR looks less....'gawky'.

For those of you in which the plant has been slow to clump up, it does really seem to enjoy good deeply dug soil and moisture, Rouge's is looking especially very nice as well !!

'Erica' is an very attractive selection with striking red tinged foliage of heavy substance and pink flower spikes, a narrower and finer restrained grower in which I have set in many locations throughout the yard.

Well mine is in the roof run off, which makes it almost a rain garden, but the media is what it is...clay. It grows, it blooms, but it's only 4 or 5 stems in four years (from small seedling). That's why I say a clump (or repeated instances) would be more impactual. Since it's so vertical and doesn't branch...more would be necessary (imo).

At my previous residence, I had gardened on heavy sticky clay, sure did make things more challenging and many plants not having come to full potential. The new place is mostly of light easy to dig soil, though a bit on the lean side and best it be amended to obtain good results.

Well, I ended up going with a grouping -- group of three spaced 2' apart in the bed I'm re-arranging. I had them already and was thinking of the most effective way to use them. We'll see... I guess there's always next year to take another stab at re-arrangement if I don't like it.

I'm a bit late to comment.... I only have the white ones and I love the candelabra look of the flowers (no pinching - that's just how they grow here....) They all quickly grew to fairly large clumps so the issue of single or multiples just didn't arise! I use the striking form of the flowers as foreground for other flowers or foliage plants in the background. Some of these pictures are fairly old because I've had some of the clumps for a long time.... But perhaps these pictures might give you some ideas for using the plant in combination with other things.

Below is a relatively new combination that doesn't show well in the pictures but has been nice for the past month - the Veronicastrum is in shade so is sprawly rather than very upright, especially since it is now almost finished blooming. From the back porch, we can see the Veronicastrum in the patio hosta bed, a Clethra (Summersweet) under the edge of the pines, and then the younc variegated Wolf Eyes dogwood tree in the far corner, so it makes a green and white line from the house to the far NW corner. It doesn't show very clearly though in these pictures. The Veronicastrum flower shape sort of repeats the Clethra flower shape:

It's a fun plant to play with :-)

Well, I've been roundly called out! I would remind people that I was talking about a flower form., not someone's first born child. Nor, for that matter criticizing frozebuds gardening or growing skills which are professional quality

So many photos of the candelabra form.....are any veronicastrums single wands or have I got it mixed up? I know cimigufuga / actea but I'm not confusing that with veronicastrum

Marie, just having a bit of leg tugging fun here with ya !! :) :) ... neither me or my plant had been the slightest bit offended. I find it interesting to know of other's likes and dislikes and the possible feelings of such. Today, I'm battling as to the placement of some shrubs, now I'm gonna end up having to dig some established specimens that I think would look better situated over a bit, noooo I'm no professional, though tend to have a lot of fun and frustration attempting to paint the landscape with plants!

.

Zoomed in photo and ripening foliage detail as of today ...

One of my favorite plants but at least in my garden it does form very large clumps and will have to be divided this fall. I have several but quite a ways apart from one another. This spacing helps unify this long perennial bed due to their unusual shape. I am not sure who the culprit is, but one of them seeds itself quite easily, usually in the middle of a path, etc.

You know, I don't really like the look of the flowers all that much either, truth be told. I bought them for the fantastic foliage - I can tolerate the flowers.

Here's 'Erica', a compact grower with very good foliage that is red tinged earlier in the season, a very worthwhile perennial, one that I have also spread all around the yard.

Here's the foliage detail from earlier in the season, a great looking plant !!

I only have the white ones and I love the candelabra

'Woody', your white flowered specimen is so perfect. Those flowers really do look like a lit candelabra.

Woodyoak. yes, I had neglected to comment on your very lovely white, such especially full flowers shown in your third photo, beautiful !

(I have yet to see "Erica" for sale)

. Maybe, maybe usually only a mature plant has the candlelabra effect. Anyone remember a candlelabra type in its early years?

Mxk I'm shocked, just shocked at your confession. Some things are best left unsaid.

Thanks Rouge and FrozeBudd - I do like white flowers :-). I think if I had the pale lavende-purple one, I’d try to plant it to be the foreground for something (a clematis maybe...?) which had flowers in a more intense, saturated similar colour. And I’d plant it where it gets morning or late afternoon slanting rays of light to produce that illuminated effect :-)

Marie - I think my white ones always had the candelabra shape for the flowers.... But sometimes, especially as they got older - and perhaps in less dry years - the length of the individual arms of the candelabra can be longer, reducing the candelabra effect a bit.

"Mxk I'm shocked, just shocked at your confession. Some things are best left unsaid."

What did I miss?

Rouge, I do see 'Erica' offered from time to time, though not commonly so, I had picked mine up at Hole's Greenhouse years ago and sure have pleased with it's always good performance!

Mxk3, Marie is eluding to my failed attempt at humor :(

FrozeBudd, I did get the joke and thought it was funny. But another few folks weighed in,which is of course fine, about the sanctity of personal taste.. Then I realized no one asked for my opinion & it was ill mannered to express a distaste for a plant that you were presenting with such praise. (I also thought that there are a lot of us who have strong opinions on different plants and don't hesitate to say so)

With this, I'm feeling my interest in the discussion is satisfied.

OTOH, my interest heightened in the 2 different presentations of veronicastrum.

. I'll start a separate post about that. Very Briefly, I wasn't crazy thinking that there are really different forms, the wand and the candlelabra. Veronicastrum is subject to "fastination" that causes doubling rows of cells. so that part of flower head doubles.(That is a very crude incomplete summary )I'll copy a more accurate defintion later) I remember my Sunny Border Blue veronica from 20 years ago did that. I did not like the look. I wanted individual wands not a 3 headed plant.

I can't get back to the article until maybe tonight. If someone else wants to jump in and get started please do. I did think starting a separate thread might be helpful.

Marie, here's a funny story, a couple that lives only minutes away, they have a veggie garden, fruit trees and some low maintenance plants such as hostas. Well, the lady walks around the front of my house and says "This is just lovely, I don't know how you do it! all" ... so, of course a nice compliment! Then, we enter the backyard, a setting that almost always elicits the words "OMG, just like Butchart Gardens!", which really is a very long stretch, though again nice to hear! But, she just stands there with arms folded and begins to hum and haw and then utters, "You know, Marek and I just HATE flowers!" ... LOL, now what could I say to that? No, I was not personally offended ... but, I just wanted to reply that I hated the color she had tinted her hair and the dress she was wearing, but, no, she had looked lovely, lol. Just an funny and awkward moment regarding personal taste.

Yes, 'Sunny Border Blue' does that for me as well, though it really would be the ideal plant if not for sometimes getting a bad case of mildew and then having its lower foliage brown off, still it's a keeper for its garden presence. I really do need more veronicas !!

Funny story. Sometimes when people visit, I ask (hopefully) would you like to see the garden?. I'm always very surprised when some one demurs. I'm sure someone once said "I'm not crazy about gardens" but I blocked the memory.

I’ve been following this thread with interest because I am struggling to find a home for my seed grown veronicastrum. I’ve found quite a bit of variation in the plants. In this photo I’m happy with the one in the foreground (photo taken from the back), but the one behind the birdbath is too tall and floppy. But the spires are really long and It is the showiest one I have but I’m assuming it needs more sun to stay upright . Plus it is in front of Joe Pyle weed! I need a bigger yard🙁

Frozebudd, what do you have planted in front of your allium remnants?

Anna, do you mean the reddish colored plant, if so that's 'Rosy Glow' barberry ... the silvery looking plant behind is actually a 'Ivory Halo' dogwood.

North53, your garden is sooo very lovely !! Yes, it's fun to grow out a quantity of any type of perennial to find a bit of variation among the lot and sometimes something really rather desirable. Today, I selecting and culling self sown heliopsis, the occasional one being superior to their named mother plants. I'm gonna begin digging and moving perennials around while they remain in color and before they're frosted off, this way I can better coordinate colors and textures, rather than doing so in the spring and later regretting their siting as so often occurs!

Marie, naturally most visitors are very engaging, but a few of them have left me shaking my head! One fella had just walked around in a circle on the grass while he texted, no interest whatsoever in the plants! Then, rather similarly, a lady who puffed on a cigarette while standing in one spot and refusing to walk about the place. I called out to her "Come over here and take a look at the garden!" ... but, she replied "I'm fine, I can see it all from here!" Then, the married lady who bluntly made advances on me and despicable measures in an attempt to get into my life, she was shown the door!

Nort53 -- lovely pic! I have a deep-seated love of purple and blue flowers. Can't quite tell what the purple bloomer behind the white culver's root in the foreground is -- ? aster, but they don't bloom at the same time, maybe Stoke's aster? (I adore my "Honeysong Purple" Stoke's -- what a beauty!)

Mxk3, the purple bloomer is a fleabane daisy. It is happy in that spot but needs support to prevent flopping. It was another successful seed grown specimen.

Thank you FrozeBudd for your kind words. I take strategic pictures...parts of my yard are a an utter mess!

On the subject of garden comments, I have a visitor who no matter what plant we’re looking at will point out that one leaf that has insect damage, in spite of the fact that overall the plant is in great shape. It irritates me to no end.

I resurrected this thread because I'm probably adding this plant this year and I haven't decided where to put it.

Well, it's been what 5 years now? I still think they're hard to place but in the right spot they're great. I have some lilac-y ones (can't remember the cultivar) and some white ones. The lilac-y ones are more vigorous growers and bloom more and for a longer period of time. I think the white ones are the species, not a cultivar but honestly I don't remember.

I will say the bees will not leave them alone, it's worth planting just to attract pollinators (it seems a favorite of the great black wasp, too).

I ended moving a clump to the pasture last year, I had to do some thinning in the beds -- it will be interesting to see if it makes it back there but will be kinda cool if it does, I'll definitely be able to see the blooms from the house and will be fascinating to visit up close and see the pollinator smorgasborg (there are all sorts of interesting buzzers back there that don't venture up close to the house much)

Thank you Pork Chop. The one I bought is... Veronicastrum virginicum ‘Apollo’. It is a lilac colored one and it looks very vigorous. I hope so. I can put it in full sun but I have a location that is part sun that I have more room for and wondered about trying it there?

I am buying just the one plant and I wonder how I can propagate it to make more? Easiest way?

If you see it coming back in the pasture, I hope you will post a photo of it.

"Apollo" rings a bell -- that very well might be it. That one is right outside my great room window, I enjoy standing there and watching the bees feast. I find it oddly mesmerizing.

Thank you @prairiemoon2 z6b MA for restarting this thread.

It has reminded me to be on the lookout for @FrozeBudd_z3/4 "Erica" variety.

I enjoyed re- reading this thread. Im glad I received absolution by the end because I was again embarassed by my bluntness early on.

i could never make the plant work in my perennial bed so it got transferred to a wilder location. But the as I look at all the photos just now, I like it, especially the first photo in the thread, the source of my social angst.

thanks again for reviving this,pm.