Abe. Darby is a water-hog. As grafted on Dr.Huey, it gave about 10 blooms on 4' x 3' bush for spring flush at nearby alkaline clay rose park. I came back in late-summer and I COULD NOT find the four Abe. Darby that I saw during spring flush. The rose park got rid of them since they were not blooming much after spring flush.

Predfern (20 min. from me) with loamy soil likes his Abe. Darby as OWN-ROOT, but he gave up on his Brother Cadfael (stingy reputation, both as grafted and own-root).

Spirit of Freedom needs shade with its zillion petals.

Mary rose can take full-sun. It's Khalid best bush in hot Pakistan. Mary rose is best as grafted and the bush is more compact & shorter than Ab. Darby. But Ab. Darby has better scent, Mary rose scent is camphor (Khalid doesn't like its scent).

Folks rave about Bishop's Castle scent, but Regan Nursery cancelled that on my order since it's no longer available. Hoovb in alkaline clay, CA, posted the best pic of Bishop's Castle in hot & dry. Bishop's Castle would be the best choice, but it's hard to find.

I think David Austin still has Bishop’s Castle. Once you get past a certain number they stop charging for shipping. I start my order in the fall with my birthday certificate and then add in Christmas with that gift, plus they will let you use the discount on the entire order. Just make sure you call for all of them, I think I read on here if you place any orders online it messes everything up

@strawchicago z5 -Straw, thanks for these tips! I think I will try Spirit of Freedom somewhere more shaded. Most of my yard is full sun as you know, but the front is shaded. Maybe on the corner of the front somewhere, so it's not full shade but not full sun.

Good to know about Abe own root vs. grafted too and BC. I'm trying to decide between Bishop's Castle and Mary Rose, I read good things about both. HoovB's older post on theirs is what caught my eye. But Mary Rose seems to have a good reputation for bush shape. This is for a space that I need a good size 4 ft x 5 ft wide shrub. Their flowers look so similar on HMF....maybe my brain is just exhausted from looking at rose photos though, and their flowers are actually different.

@oursteelers 8B PNW - Great to know. Hopefully their orders will work online since I ordered a bunch already through the website. I will call to confirm like you said, just to make sure.

If anyone has photos of any of these in their gardens, I'd love to see how their shape/size is. Thanks!

B, they will work per se, it just won’t let you combine orders so you save on shipping

Spirit of Freedom takes full sun here.

@Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR Beautiful photos and SOF. I like it's rich colors. I'll probably give it a try at some point. Great to hear it can handle the heat and sun too, will be interesting to see how it holds up in my yard. Thanks :)

I had Spirit of Freedom, but I had it in a less than ideal spot and it dwindled so I eliminated it after 1.75 seasons. So incredibly petal packed, but prone to balling and I usually never have issues with that here where I'm. It was from DAR-USA grafted on Dr. Huey and was never the "strong growing" variety as advertised. I did not observe much beyond crown hardiness plus a couple inches if I was lucky. My The Ingenious Mr. Fairchild has been superior in every way except weak necks and number of petals. SoF is one I'd love to try again.

I do not have Mary Rose, but I do have Winchester Cathedral, and since it's a sport of Mary Rose, it's essentially the same. I've even gotten several solid pink MR blooms and well as mixes and half and half. I've moved the poor thing three times, but seems much happier now and has been settling in this year.
It's reasonably hardy, sometimes to the tips, sometimes I have to cut it almost to the ground. I love the white and the scent- it's like Grandma's hand lotions or some kind of cold cream. It's quite fragrant to my nose, but some folks only find it slightly scented.
Will get black spot, but virtually anything not actually immune WILL get it here. It's the most virulent and debilitating fungal disease in my Great Lakes Zone 5b.
Some roses get a touch of mildew and usually in autumn, but it's virtually not noticeable.
Rust does NOT happen here. How do I know? In my high school years I had Conrad Ferdinand Meyer, and there are many reports from out west of its extreme rust susceptibility, and I never had that. What did I have? Yep- black spot, but only on the lower 1/3 of the 10' monster.

Steven

@MiGreenThumb (Z5b S.Michigan/Sunset 41) Elevation: 1091 feet - Thanks so much for all this helpful info. Appreciate it. Was worried about balling with SOF, since it has so many petals. Looks beautiful but I'm not sure I'm willing to risk it, especially if it dies to the ground every winter. Maybe eventually once I get some of these prime garden spots filled I can test it somewhere I wouldn't mind leaving it for a few years, to see how it ages. Mr. Fairchild looks beautiful too, thanks for the note on him. Hadn't heard of him before.

Winchester Cathedral looks nice too, I saw a couple pictures of it (or Mary Rose I forget now) with white/pink blooms and liked it a lot. Made a pretty rose even prettier. Good to know about blackspot. I'm in hudson valley, and got a little this year on certain roses (their bottom 1/4s) but don't mind it too much. Will learn how to deal with it earlier on once I have the soil taken care of a bit more. If you have any pictures of your Conrad or Fairchild, would love to see!

I grew Mary Rose years ago, and prefer Bishop's Castle, much more fragrant to my nose. Bishop's Castle is upright, 3 1/2 feet tall and about 2 1/2 feet wide. It's quite hardy, mine is many years old. It has a beautiful scent similar to Damask.

Bishop's Castle

@Krista_5NY Great thanks for this info. Do you remember Mary Rose's size/habit?

I really like Bishop's Castles blooms more than hers I think. They have the globular thing I really like with roses. Does your Bishop's Castle die to the ground each winter?

Is your BC in full sun?

I only grew Mary Rose for one year, not enough time to evaluate growth habit.

Bishop's Castle does not die back to the ground after winter. The amount of dieback will vary from year to year, but it's typically 2 - 3 feet tall after pruning.

For a taller rose, Mortimer Sackler is 5 feet tall. It has little dieback after winter, quite hardy. The blooms have a delicious fragrance and reliable repeat.

Vapor, it gets a few hours of late afternoon shade.

I have Mary Rose. She’s 3-4’ and shrubby looking. Mine is in part shade, might be larger in full sun. Nearly always has blooms.

@Krista_5NY - Thanks for this info. Mortimer looks like a great rose, will have to try and find one.

@Dingo2001 - Z5 Chicagoland - Thanks on this, I have a couple of Mary Roses coming in the spring. They'll be in full sun here so it will be interesting to see how she does. I like the color range in the flowers

Mary rose repeats fast than most of DAs, but the blooms don’t last long.

Sheila - that close up of SoF is heavenly!!! Love!!!

Krista - beautiful blooms...that last pic...oh my!!

Summers - wow!!! What a fabulous bush!!!

@summersrhythm_z6a - Wow, that's a beautiful plant. Looks like a wave of roses, I love it. How tall does she get for you in your zone? Thanks for the pic

B, I wish I had pictures of Conrad, but that was in the days before widespread cellular phones that could take pictures, and no digital camera to upload pictures from (especially at that age).

I had to replace my mobile device recently, and unfortunately no longer have any pics of TIMF.
I could go snap some now, but I'm sure we can guess how unlovely he might be. I'll have to have a look... and back hours later- indeed. The Ingenious Mr. Fairchild is bloomless end looking ready for a winter's nap.

Steven

I have Brother Cadfael. When he is good, he has the most beautiful large blooms with strong old rose fragrance, but his repeat and vigor was never as good as my other typical Austins, and he has severe balling when the weather is cold and damp, although not as bad as my Earth Angel. He gets about 4 feet tall with a nice bush shape, and I always cut the occasional octopus canes he throws out in late summer/fall.

My Abe Darby stays pretty short too because I trim hard. Between BC and AD, I will pick AD for due to larger bloom quantity and better repeat. AD has worse disease resistance though and will be naked without spray.

My Winchester Cathedral is still new. Nice bush shape, lots of blooms, but the fragrance is somewhat unusual and I am not sure whether I like it.

In terms of winter survival, all 3 survive my zone 5 Chicago winter just fine.

Claire

This is my The Ingenious Mr. Fairchild right now.
I had to dig him up a couple years ago when I removed a monstrous William Baffin (who is STILL coming back from the roots), so he's still reset from that. TIMF can get to around six feet here but has never been a full shrub so I'm hoping he recovers and establishes.
It won't survive the winter, but I'm even a getting new basal break.
He did flower very generously this year and I'm looking forward to seeing how he does next.

Steven

@MiGreenThumb (Z5b S.Michigan/Sunset 41) Elevation: 1091 feet, looks great! I looked up the blooms and they look beautiful. Nice purple/pink color to them. Hoping that yours does well for you in it's new spot.

@Claire Z5 IL -Thanks for the info on Brother Cadfael's growth habit. The blooms really look nice on him, even if they ball in cooler weather. I was thinking of trying Winchester Cathedral for an area of white roses I'm planning, thanks for the info on her. Glad they all do well over winter. I have a few Abe Darby's coming. The flowers on him look beautiful. I'm planning on having some other plants in front of him in the bed, to hopefully cover any "nakedness" he might get over the season. Would love to see any pictures you have of them

Just wanted to see if anyone had any other photos of their roses from afar? Would be great to see bush or garden shots of cold zone growers. I've been trying to go back through all the old posts on Houzz to find pictures, but for some reason, pictures don't load on posts older than a couple of years for me on here.

@Krista_5NY - Do you have any garden shots or bush shots of your Austins? I was looking over your list of roses you grow in New York (like me). Thanks for listing them all, great ideas and really helpful :) Would love to see pictures of how the bushes look in your garden if you have any.

Anyone else have garden/bush shots of established Austin or other roses in their cold zones? Debating whether to switch out a few that I've ordered for next spring. Thanks for all the help so far! Hopefully some of the ones I tried for the first time this year survive winter. Weird weather already here in NY....can't wait for spring.

Bredan: Here are bush-shots of established Austins:

Evelyn as 10-th year own-root, always healthy if soil is alkaline. I topped it with biochar at pH 8.6 three times this year.

Look out my window today Nov. 2 after it got down to 27 F. last night and 6th-year own-root Munstead Wood is 100% healthy, will take pic. of it later when temp. warms up. Below is Munstead Wood in June before I moved it this year away from tree-roots.

Below is Christopher Marlowe, 10th-year own-root. It stays small since I brutally prune it, and force it to bloom with high-potassium fertilizer. Always healthy with shiny & glossy leaves.

@strawchicago z5 Thanks for these! It helps me understand what roses might end up looking like if they survive a few years of winter. It helps a new rose grower like me understand how these plants grow long term (in cold zones). I don't have any neighbors growing roses (from what I can tell), so I don't have a clue what they might look like in my area.

I just ask that you stop torturing me with your pics of Christopher Marlowe! hah ;) It's sold out, but I really like the strange ultra saturated red-orange-pink coloration it seems to have. Maybe it's only to my eyes, but it seems to have a really unique color that isn't quite red, orange, or pink. My favorite colors are ones that aren't easy to define. All your roses look so healthy and beautiful, great job.

Steven - do you have any of your summer pictures of The Ingenious Mr. Fairchild that you could post here? Does yours hold its blooms up?

Straw - I really love your Christopher Marlowe!!! You did a great job in making it shine!

Krista - I love the bold colors of your roses!! And your Evelyn...wow!!! I've always loved that rose...I should try it again some day. It did well for about 4 years and then started dying back a bit more each year. It had such gorgeous blooms...yours are heavenly!!

@Krista_5NY - Thanks for all of your pictures. They're beautiful looking, especially the color combo of Lady Emma Hamilton with your Royal Jubilee. I like the way your Bishop's Castle almost looks like clusters of peonies. Will be interesting to see what I can get to survive in our zone :) I'll try to remember to keep this thread updated once I see how things look here after winter.