b_csz5

Eglantyne...or no?

B _zone5b
10 days ago
last modified: 10 days ago

I ordered 2 Eglantyne for next spring after reading about her great scent and unique flowers. This spot is near Olivia Austin rose and Bathsheba and full sun, big area (zone 5b). I'm wanted a cool toned light pink for this spot and thought Eglantyne would do well color wise, and be different enough from Olivia and Bathsheba. Now I've been reading that Eglantyne is bad with blackspot/disease. Should I just keep them and see how they do, or go with something better? I'm trying to get similar color ranges but different looking flower forms or uniqueness to them, but after a while all the light pinks/oranges start looking similar online....

I was thinking that instead, I could try one of these:

Ancient Mariner

Shropshire Lad

Mill on the Floss

any others?


I'm also wondering if Eglantyne and Olivia will look too similar?

Comments (76)

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    7 days ago

    The vase and the Roses suit one another so well! Just sweet Perfection. :-)

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    7 days ago
    last modified: 7 days ago

    Regarding Eglantyne: a gorgeous bloom and outstanding fragrance, but is a martyr to BS here, competing with DarceyBussell. Its thick thorny canes can be trained horizontally or pruned lower. Here it is very hardy with only some die-back on the longest canes at -7F. It does bloom often as a grafted plant. I'd like to move it somewhere less conspicuous, but I've yet to find a replacement that has all her attributes with better BS resistance. She is in loamy, extremely well-draining soil with full sun... one of my best spots.




    New Dawn's buds are photobombing in the background along with Lindee!

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  • Diane Brakefield
    7 days ago

    What a beautiful setting, Vapor, and your Eglantyne is lovely. My E would love your E's amenities. Mine sits in too much shade from nearby trees, tall wild grasses, and a huge sagebrush neighbor, out by the edge of the slope in deer gnawing territory. You can't even see her from the house and the ground she grows in is awful. But I do not have to contend with the blasted black spot. Diane

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    7 days ago

    Thank you, Diane! That's quite a compliment coming from you. : )) She'd be a hands-down favourite if she were healthy. This year I barely got a first flush out of many of my roses before they dis-robed. : (( ...but that flower and colour.... swoon. She's similar in colour to Pretty Jessica and does not bleach out at all. I think I may actually spray her and a few others next year and see how that goes. I don't mind for a few special roses that are difficult to duplicate.

  • Diane Brakefield
    6 days ago

    I do think some antifungal spray is justified in this case. I think Englantyne is quite unique in her bloom form. Any rose described as pink cotton candy, or candy floss, has got to be special. Yum. Diane

  • rosecanadian
    5 days ago

    Vaporvac - oh, no way!!! They really can't be THAT beautiful, can they? Oh my!!! From your picture, I can see why David Austin Sr. always thought Eglantyne was his most beautiful rose!!!

  • CeresMer Zone 7a NJ
    5 days ago
    last modified: 5 days ago

    Vapor, how beautiful! She looks so happy and healthy there. did she get Blackspot right after? I haven’t had blackspot yet, I suspect Roses come with a strong systematic to avoid BS on first year lol. I will give my EG some time to mature. Yours is stunning

  • Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
    5 days ago

    Ceres, thank you so much for the information on cabbage testing.

    Most of my planting beds have been worked and amended buy a bed up by the street had been a challenge.

    The previous owner had it planted mostly in ivy . Even alysum has a hard time there.

    I cant wait to test it out. I should probably not test it during this rainy season though


  • B _zone5b
    Original Author
    5 days ago
    last modified: 5 days ago

    @Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley Thanks so much for those beautiful photos. Loos like such a pretty setting with the plants together like that.

    I love the look of Eglantyne.....seems really fluffy. I don't have a lot of experience with blackspot yet since I'm new to roses, so that makes me worry a little. But maybe she'd be worth it. The one thing I'm still stuck on is whether her coloration matches Olivia Rose Austin too much.....since they'll be next to each other. Maybe not though. Might just give Eglantyne a try (I already have Olivia) and see how they do together :) If she gets lots of blackspot or doesn't do well, I'll stick her towards the edge of the property in the cheap seats, where I won't see her so much.

  • Diane Brakefield
    5 days ago

    B, I think Olivia fades more than Eglantyne, but O's rebloom is better, and its growth habit is nicer. Diane

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  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    5 days ago

    Would you say they have a similar color Diane? I have considered Olivia as a smaller replacement for Summer Romance. Summer romances color is very similar to Eglantyne's.

  • Diane Brakefield
    5 days ago

    Eglantyne is consistently the same color through the season; of course, the color is very light pink here in the desert sun. Olivia can have a little darker pink center when it's cooler in spring, but by summer, she's a lot lighter. That sounds confusing. How big is Summer Romance? Olivia is about 7 feet tall and 4+ feet wide. She got lots bigger this year. Diane

  • Diane Brakefield
    5 days ago




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    5 days ago




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  • Diane Brakefield
    5 days ago

    The top two pics are Olivia and the bottom two, Eglantyne. Not very good pics. I noticed that the colors of both roses seemed to overlap a lot in pinkness when I looked at more photos. Diane

  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    4 days ago

    Well that Settles that then! I somehow thought Olivia I was only like four feet tall. I don't know where I got that idea. Oh well! Maybe I'll try and clone my pretty Jessica and see how she does. I wish I could find something that's healthy.

  • Diane Brakefield
    4 days ago

    Do roses grow very large for you, vapor? If not, Olivia might not get any bigger than four feet. Mine too several years to reach its current size. Diane

  • Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
    4 days ago

    Wow Diane, your Olivia is 7ft tall ?

    Mine is about 4ft max

    I hope mine doesn't get that tall


  • rosecanadian
    4 days ago

    Diane - your ORA blooms are mesmerizing, espeically the first one!!! I could stare and stare and stare!!! And I really love your 2nd Eglantyne shot!!! Mmmmmm

  • Diane Brakefield
    4 days ago

    Thanks, Carol. I think they often look better in photos than in real life. It's mainly the pale color that just doesn't come through well here. Diane

  • rosecanadian
    4 days ago

    Nope. Nope. Nope. :) :) Your photos and roses in the cellulose are gorgeous. :) :)

  • B _zone5b
    Original Author
    3 days ago
    last modified: 3 days ago

    @Diane Brakefield Thanks for the photos. They definitely help me understand the form and coloration of Eglantyne when compared to Olivia which I have two of. I actually kind of like the similarity in colors. I think it helps show off the contrast in flower form between the two.

    Olivia did really well here (I think.....good to me is relative since I started this year hah). But I was happy with her. Her centers definitely had a hot raspberry pink color which faded to a dusty baby pink/white after a few days. Looks like Eglantyne is kind of a looser, fluffier form with less contrast in color shift which would be nice I think. These are going next to each other in a line as: Olivia, Eglantyne, Bathsheba, Jude, 1 more Bathsheba, and Crown Princess. Hopefully the 2 Bathshebas will connect them all since they have light pink, light yellows, and apricot like CPM.


    I only have experience with seeing Olivia, Bathsheba and CPM in person....so hopefully Eglantyne and Jude will perform well and be the right colors for this effect :)

    I can't believe your Olivia is 7 feet....how beautiful, even with faded flowers.


    Would you say Eglantyne's flowers are bigger than Olivias? They look kind of big and fluffy on HMF.

    Thanks again everyone for your help and tips.

  • B _zone5b
    Original Author
    3 days ago
    last modified: 3 days ago

    Here are some pictures of my Olivia and others in case anyone is interested in any of these roses:

    Olivia and last picture is jubilee celebration
    As much as I like Olivia’s cup shape full of swirls, there is something about Jubilee Celebration’s flowers that were so much better to me. Her colors are warmer than Olivia’s, more salmon pink but still really beautiful and glowed from afar once she grew thicker canes to hold to roses upward. I like them both, good bloomers all season. But there's something about the structure of JC's big bell-like blooms that is really eye-catching and impressive.








  • B _zone5b
    Original Author
    3 days ago
    last modified: 3 days ago

    Here is Bathsheba, my favorite color changer. Much slower to get bleached out from sun compared to Olivia and Crown Princess. I'm hoping some of the light yellows she shows, are picked up in Jude Obscure.








  • Diane Brakefield
    3 days ago

    B, I love your Bathsheba and all its colors. This rose is on my perpetual want list. Your first photo is particularly luscious. How large do the blooms get for you? I think you are doing outstandingly well, especially in zone 5b for the first year. Wow. There are some upsides to the quarantine. As usual, your photos of Olivia are lovely. She doesn't take a bad picture, and I think the color you get from her is quite a bit consistently darker than my faded rose. I always love seeing Jubilee Celebration--it seems like one of Austin's lovelier ones. I do prefer the richer colors. I've grown Jude the Obscure for 16 years, and he is a big one. For me, Jude's downside is he doesn't rebloom nearly as much as I'd like (maybe he's just old, but his growth is vigorous). But the unique color and bloom structure of Jude probably guarantee that this old guy will have a place in my garden. Everyone raves about his scent, which is just OK for me. Jude is a slow grower at first, but then...watch out. I've posted some of these photos before, so I hope I'm not repeating too much. Diane



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    3 days ago




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    3 days ago





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  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    3 days ago

    I could never get enough of those pictures, Diane! Same with yours B. :-)

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  • B _zone5b
    Original Author
    3 days ago
    last modified: 3 days ago

    @Diane Brakefield Ohhh Diane how beautiful! I can't wait for next spring hah. I have 2 Judes coming for my hillside. I love those globular blooms...and I'm really curious about his scent after reading so much about it. Even if I don't love that, I think it'll be interesting to see what he does here and how his flowers look compared to my other roses.

    Quarantine was driving me crazy at first, with all the unknowns, but once I got out into my yard, I got into clearing lots of spaces overgrown with weeds. I'm actually glad that the whole negative situation lead to me trying new things in my yard and gardens. I would have never even thought about roses before this year. Always heard they were a nightmare to grow. So far, they've been a beautiful nightmare.


    Bathsheba's bloom size was pretty much the same as Crown Princess...I'd say 3-4 inches? Sorry I am not great at measuring them yet, but I'm going to next year. Some of them at the beginning of summer got big, like Carding Mill size...but then they were a tiny bit smaller. These were all new potted plants from my nursery though, so maybe their blooms will get a little bigger as the plants mature?



    I'll upload some more pictures of Jubilee from when she grew thicker canes to hold her big flowers up. They were really a really nice rich pink color that really glowed from across the yard. I could see her and Carding Mill glowing and really hope they make it through the winter because they're my top 3 (along with Bathsheba).

    Is that Spirit of Freedom with your giant Jude by any chance? Looks beautiful. I have my Jude's planned to be under 2 Spirit of Freedoms on my hillside. Hoping their subtle colorations contrast each other nicely (light pink/purple to the light orange/yellow of jude) but that their globe forms connect them.

    Here's some more Jubilee. The colors in her pinks have a glow effect compared to pink+white colors of Olivia.....it's interesting that some of the roses seem to have more uniform colors on all the petals, and others have a more complex coloration that make the sunlight reflect and create a glow or stained glass effect. This rose was always flowering like Carding Mill. Bathsheba is amazingly beautiful, but didn't have constant flowers like those two-





    Here she is with Carding Mill glowing at dusk (on my messy weed covered hill that's going to be filled with roses next year)


  • Diane Brakefield
    3 days ago

    My goodness, I'm just blown away by what you've accomplished in such a short time. I think Jubilee Celebration is my favorite of all. It's that color and all those petals. Here in the desert, we'd call your weeds garden plants--they look good to me--if those are even weeds. Our weeds are hideous. You asked if the rose next to Jude was Spirit of Freedom. It is Brother Cadfael, another 16 year old--old guy--huge, big spring flush, great scent, poor rebloom and lots of balling in the heat which ruins things for most of the summer. I grew BC at my previous home from the year he came on the market. There's lots of sentimental value to him, and I'm still putting up with the poor rebloom. Other pluses are wine colored canes (except for the really old ones), and few thorns. Diane

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    3 days ago




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  • Vaporvac Z6-OhioRiverValley
    3 days ago

    Sometimes it's worth it for a single bloom! Your last picture, Diane, is gorgeous.

  • Diane Brakefield
    3 days ago

    Vapor, Many thanks. Bro has been a trial in recent years, but I'm elderly, too. We're kind of a pain to be around. But he needs to do his job--repeat bloom. Diane

  • rosecanadian
    2 days ago

    B - I agree with you...I love the flowers on Jubilee C. The canes on mine never did stand up. The fragrance is pretty wonderful though. Beautiful flowers!! Your Bathsheba really does go through a lot of colors!! So cool!! Oh....your first picture of JC (last set of pics you posted) is exceptional!!! Oh my goodness!!! I'm so glad that you have decided that roses are "the bomb" and that you found us!!! :) :)


    Diane - I love the first pic of JtO!!!!...especially the rose at the bottom...oh my heavens!!

    I agree with Vaporvac...that last pic of Bro. Cad....drooliscious!!! My next favorite is your first pic of Bro Cad...the lavender color and the sheer amount of blooms!! :) :)


  • B _zone5b
    Original Author
    2 days ago

    @Diane Brakefield - Diane, thanks for compliments. I wish I had accomplished more but my local nursery only had one round of roses this year and then they said they couldn't get more because of covid and demands. But I grabbed as many as I could and tried my best with them. You are right now that I think about it, most of the 'weeds' on that hillside were old wildflowers I planted from seed (plus grass). There are real weeds too I'm sure, but I can never tell what's what out there. The wildflowers spread everywhere so I don't mind that I'm getting rid of them on the hillside. There is one patch of queen anne's lace that looks better where it spread, then where I originally planted it (she flew around and found more shade).


    Thanks for those photos! I love that combination of pinkish purple bro. with the yellows in Jude, beautiful. 16 years old is pretty amazing. I would keep him just to show people that I grew one plant well for 16 years :) I really like his globular blooms...sort of like spirit of freedom but with a touch of hot pink to turn him raspberry tones in the center. The combo of him and Jude is like one big living sculpture/artwork.


    I hope you keep him for a bit longer and see how he does. Maybe he's just being a temperamental teen and will grow out of it to rebloom more for you.


    @rosecanadian - Thanks! :) I don't know why my Jubilee's grew thicker canes since I kind of threw everything organic I could at them this year. Not sure what prompted the stronger canes. I'm going to keep an eye on them over the next couple of years if they survive. Out of all the ones I tried, her, bathsheba, and carding mill are my favorites so far, so I have to get them to survive at least a few more years :) I think I've seen pictures of JC eventually getting sturdier with her growth, so maybe it just takes some time. Did yours flower a lot? Mine still has buds (frost stalled them) but her and CM always had blooms, no pauses like my other roses.


  • Ann9BNCalif
    2 days ago

    My Brother Cadfael just completed his 9th year and is doing well. He may have declined slightly in bloom quantity and frequency since he first arrived in my garden as my first David Austin rose back in 2012. Here are a few pics.


    Spring 2014, two years after being planted he had a great spring flush.



    Spring 2016 - BC reached about 5-6 feet tall. As Diane mentioned, he has nearly thornless canes that are a lovely reddish color.




    More...

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  • Ann9BNCalif
    2 days ago

    Here he is from 2015. As a cut flower, BC would open and close like a peony when brought indoors. The morning sun comes in from the window behind him so he's getting ready to open up.



    Here are two pics from this past rose season.





    Like Diane, I have a sentimental attachment to the Brother since he was my first DA rose. I don't yet get the balling or once-blooming tendency yet but with climate change, who knows? One thing that BC didn't respond well to was having another rose planted nearby. I think I may have too many roots competing with each other for space.


    Ann

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  • oursteelers 8B PNW
    2 days ago

    This website is the absolute worst for a pandemic and budget. I am usually SO good about waiting for gift certificates for my birthday and Christmas or sales but all these pictures are KILLING me.

    Im like gotta have this one, gotta have this one, oops that one might go away better get it. Or these “teas are so big I should get them now so I know how much room I have, ogr’s really call to my soul, I need more of those”

    And now since the kids aren’t here(it’s only the start of day two) I can’t make myself do anything but buy plants and presents.🙄

  • B _zone5b
    Original Author
    2 days ago

    @oursteelers 8B PNW It really is the worst for budget lol. Though I have to admit, not being able to travel or do much else all summer has made plant investments a bit easier to think about for me. Quarantining lead me to clearing so much space in my property....but now I want to fill it all hah. I'm still glad I discovered roses this year though, so much variety and beauty in them that I didn't even realize before.


    @Ann9BNCalif Wow Ann, so beautiful! His flowers really do look like peonies. I might have to give him a try somewhere he can get tall and see how he does. I'd like to see the blooms even if it's not a big repeat. Their coloration looks interesting and beautiful.

  • oursteelers 8B PNW
    2 days ago

    B, Brother Cadfael is really pretty. Mine is young so I can’t get speak to eventual size but I definitely recommend this rose. If I lost him I’d replace him

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  • Diane Brakefield
    2 days ago

    OK, Brother has a reprieve thanks to all of you. Actually, I've grown so lazy that the thought of removing that giant sends me back to bed.


    Ann, your Brother is gorgeous, and I know will continue to grow and prosper in your garden. I agree that he makes lovely, sweet smelling bouquets. And my first Austin was Brother, too, in the 90s. The old Jackson & Perkins in Oregon carried the brand new Austins, and when Bro appeared in their catalog, I ordered. My second Austin, Eglantyne, also at my old home, came from J & P, too, the year it came out. I find the Brother does fine with close growing big roses on either side of him. They all jam canes into each other, but don't seem to mind. Not like PAoK that wanted to crush her neighbor completely. Here is Brother Cadfael jammed next to Jude the Obscure in 2012. They are still in love, I think.


    Yes, B, you probably should have Brother Cadfael. You must garden quite a bit south of here to have buds just now frosted. The rose buds on my plants are brown husks from the cold and have been for weeks. Boise is in the same latitude as southern Maine, though we are lots warmer, we still have the same short growing seasons. So, back to 2012. Diane

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    2 days ago




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  • Ann9BNCalif
    2 days ago

    Diane - Your BC is amazing! I love your photos! My second DA rose was Abe Darby which I still have and love but not as dearly as BC. I got Eglantyne a few years ago and it was very slow to grow as an own root. I would recommend getting it as a grafted rose. But I love the fragrance of Eglantyne which might be my favorite DA rose for fragrance.


    Ann

  • Diane Brakefield
    yesterday

    Thanks, Ann. When Brother is good, he is very, very good. But then, at other times...I've grown several Eglantyne over the years, and they've always been grafted on Huey. E can get a bit scraggly for me as the season wears on. It doesn't have the nice growth habit that Brother has. I agree about E's fragrance. I've only had Abe for a few years, and he's own root, which I really dislike. He's not Twig Darby anymore, but he's still dinky for the number of years I've grown him, and he could bloom better, I think, but being small, that might limit blooms a bit. So, I am not impressed with Abe on his own roots. Diane

  • rosecanadian
    yesterday

    B - my Jubilee Celebration took long pauses between flowering session...and then gave about 10 blooms each time. It wasn't bad...I just hate flowers that point to the ground. I tried for a few years...then gave up. Irritated me too much. But I do remember the fabulous fragrance!!! I'm so glad that you found roses!!! A shared passion for roses connects us all so strongly!!


    Ann - Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!! Your BC blooms/bushes are EQUISITE!!!! My faves are the inside one (I can barely stand how beautiful those blooms are!!) and the bush one with the strong reddish canes!!! I love that look with strong, long canes that are visible and not all hidden with foliage....gorgeous!!!


    Oursteelers - LOL Yup...I hear you!! I'm patiently waiting for my mail order rose place to put their list up...COME ON, ALREADY!!! LOL LOL Did I say "patiently?" I'm buying lots of streptocarpus plants. I am totally in love with them!! I especially love the miniatures!!


    Diane - I bet they could see your Bro Cad/JtO bushes from space!! LOL And then you showed those "make you want to cry, they're so beautiful blooms." Ohhhhhh!!!

  • sultry_jasmine_nights (Florida 9a)
    yesterday
    last modified: yesterday

    My Jubilee also weeps downward. I put a tomato cage around it lol. Not really the prettist but it works. Some day, I will build that raised bed wall for BC, YL, and put Jubilee C in there as well.

  • oursteelers 8B PNW
    yesterday

    I want Jubilee Celebration even with her negatives...thinking of putting her in a large pot by the Shropshire Lad. Do you guys think she’ll do better in a pot since she’s a bit on the droopy side?

  • B _zone5b
    Original Author
    yesterday
    last modified: yesterday

    @oursteelers 8B PNW Thanks for the tip on Brother Cadfael, it really looks like a nice plant. I like the giant looking flowers and variations in pinks. I've only had Jubilee Celebration for this year, and I have no clue how easy it is to grow roses in pots (did it once for life of party....did nothing for it besides pot it in good soil and it did well till I put in ground one fall). But I would definitely recommend JC. I got around 40 roses this year, and out of all of them, her and Carding Mill had flowers all season. Her flowers are the prettiest though because of their giant globe forms and then they open up to a really pretty blend of warm pinks with hot pink center. I could see her from across my yard, but the colors aren't garish like my Westerland or a more "one toned" rose. They're subtle enough where they glow color, not just scream, if that makes sense. Her flowers also lasted forever on the two bushes I grew which I liked. Both bushes put out thicker, upright branches for me by end of summer...but not super tall maybe 3 or 3.5 ft most. I think she'd look amazing in a pot. If I didn't have to winterize pots here, I'd get 2 more and put them in tall pots and let her hang over the edge, at more eye level. As droopy as my two were at the beginning of summer, they're no where near as droopy as some other Austins I tried like Claire Austin. I can tell Jubilee will definitely grow into her big blooms. Hope that helps :) I like this plant, so I have plenty of pics if you're interested, just let me know.


    @Diane Brakefield Our weather has been bizarre. Snow a few weeks ago with freezing temps and then lots of rain and warm weather. Most of the buds are just weird frozen brown by now. I love those photos! That fence is my dream wall :) Beautiful.


    @rosecanadian Rose, interesting about Jubilee. The two I got were potted from am nursery and I moved them both about 2 weeks after first planting them. They collapsed and looked horrible but you all told me to shade them and water constantly hah, and it brought them back to life! They flowered all summer and eventually grew thicker upright canes. But I got them pretty drunk on lots of alfalfa tea and Neptunes.....maybe that helped the roots grow enough to shoot up thicker canes. I wanted the roses in best shape before their first winter. I love the fragrance too....very lemony :) And their flowers lasted the longest out of all the ones I tested in my little vases, though I didn't test that many yet. But those definitely were the last ones alive whenever I made a tiny collection for inside.

  • oursteelers 8B PNW
    yesterday

    I would always love to see flower pictures!