Hi Joan,

I've planted babies of that size and even smaller. You could also wait a little longer if you're nervous. Those look good. What's the variety?

Hi Judy,

These are "space violets" EverYoung. I think I'll get going on them if you think it's okay now. I don't know about AV handling, but my experience with other plants is that when they get lots and lots of roots they can become so entangled that it's hard to separate them without doing a bunch of damage. Not that they don't recover, but it's traumatic for both of us, hah. Thank you!

J

I leave them indefinitely. The tip of the mother leaf can be snipped off. I discovered there is no harm in just leaving them alone until bigger. Then they can be handled more easily and will have developed their own roots. Sometimes I wait until the mother leaf dies. Then I know the babies are able to be on their own. There is no rush to separate when that small. The risk is that one baby gets most of the roots.

Joanne

Joanne,

I made The Move about a week before you replied. I found that there were three potential young 'uns. I do NOT congratulate myself on the results. I was only able to get one that had a significant root system. Of the other two, one had only a hair and one had nothing recognizable as roots. I only want one plant for myself, but I had really hoped to do better, so as to have something to give away. But even more, I just... wanted to do better.

Nevertheless, all three are in "solo" cups (Sharpie notes re initial status on each) and still looking good. I surmise the weak ones may still produce root systems and go on to grow... but I'm not sure. Please tell me if I'm wasting my time (and especially precious space), trying to grow something that may seem determined to survive but which has no chance of doing well.

I mention this because 7 months ago I separated a sucker, which had a couple roots, from another AV, and it's still alive. But NOT making progress. Not flourishing, not showing any signs of vigor, it's still just "there," sucking up resources, but in no way rewarding. Should I "Kundo" this non-performer?

Thanks,

Joan

Did you "baggie" them? Rosie

You betcha. :) They actually look pretty great and have grown amazingly in a very short time, but only time will tell.

Joan

The success depends on a quantity of leaves - 4 is pretty much guaranteed, 2... not really. At this point - the baby really wants to live - so even if there is no root system - it will grow them happily if you cover your new transplant with a baggie.

Thanks, Irina. All three of these have four to six leaves now. I did wait 2-3 weeks after the initial post, until they were starting to look crowded. They do all want to grow: all had at least four leaves at transplant. The original leaves are getting big, and there are signs of new ones coming on. They're still in their baggie; with our subzero temps here, the indoor humidity is on the low side. I'm going to leave them protected, with a crack at the top of the bag, at least until the weather changes.

A commercial grower will separate as soon as possible to get the fastest increase in the number of salable offspring and will live on top of them to assure it, since that is the business he or she is in. Better for the hobbyist to wait a while longer. The bigger the babies the more likely one can separate with each getting an acceptable set of roots to start out with. The tinier the babies the more delicate they are and the more constant attention they will need.

For my cuttings in general, I use a full flat sized transparent cover over a full flat when necessary but my plant room is generally humid enough so that I don't usually need that.

I have half a dozen Rebecca leaves in a 6 pack along with my three types of sweet potato cuttings and those of two colors of New Guinea impatiens. 6 6-packs in one flat all set now. The Rebeccas have been set longest and the leaves are still nice and rigid, but no babies showing yet. Maybe a little early for spring, but I already have spring fever something fierce and the current cold snap aint helping that at all!

And I am not sure just which seeds I ordered will get here or when...

Will work great. Only question - a dozen leaves of Rebecca will give you 70 babies... What are you going to do with all of them???? Rebecca invasion... RUN!!!

Only 1 six pack has the Rebeccas. Currently I have a total of only one flat of cuttings of all kinds.

I want a couple of backups for when I cut back and repot the mother plant. That is all.

I can out propagate my available space real easy; so from time to time I must get the stiff upper lip and purge some things!

I find starting in the oversized 6 packs works pretty well for most everything I start from cuttings. I always try to make some extra just to cover unexpected voids, but I only have light space right now for half a dozen flats and no really good windows at all. All I need for summer sweet potatoes in the three varieties I have are a half dozen plants each. Their cuttings root almost immediately anyway; sooo easy. It is coming on time to start for the outside veggie garden real soon, too. I will need 4 to 6 flats for that; so I am coming up short already. heh heh heh (There are worse problems to have for sure!)

Once I get my inoculations for Covid taken care of, I may feel safer doing some shopping around and doing some expansion, but for the time being I am actually staying pretty much in as much isolation as possible. At that point I may actually add space for 4 more flats.

Hm, OldDutch, I've been thinking about setting a Rebecca leaf or two, just so I never lose this stellar performer. The "old" leaves I tried with, last June, finally made babies, and I'm giving them a chance, but they're just super slow. I wonder if the lack of vigor of the old leaves I used is showing up even in the young 'uns.

Whereas an 'Ingrid' leaf I took in October produced plantlets in four weeks flat, and the transplanted babies from that appear to be way ahead of the baby Rebeccas.

Meanwhile these days it's all about the Amazing Amaryllis Show, at my house. :)

Joan

Joyous sharing. All you experts. Joan, I grow any leaf - forever. "Live and let live." Joanne

Second try:

For the first time in medium rather than just water, I have babies starting to show up on the Rebecca leaves I set quite a while back. All 6 leaves seem to be well rooted, with no sign of wilt or rot. Now two of them are starting to show babies on the top of where the petiole attaches to the leaf blade. Both seem to be set with that attachment point right at the surface of the medium, while the other 4 are not set quite so deep and are not showing babies yet. Does it make a difference whether the petiole is completely into the medium with the leaf base touching?

Looks good to me. It does not matter. Optimara brand are very sturdy and flexible in how they reproduce. Congrats. Joanne

Back in the days when I used tobacco, this would have rated a good cigar. Those days are gone however, by almost a decade now.

That stupid HU note was supposed to be mine and then houzz suddenly didn't have me logged on anymore and that was what happened instead.

My six pack of Rebecca leaves now has babies on 4 of the six. The first are almost big enough to transplant, but I see no down side to waiting a while longer. I count 9 or 10 which is definitely more than enough for me. They are still too tiny for these oversized warehouseman's fingers, though, so I will let them grow some more before setting the ones I want.

The mother plant has almost come to a stop flowering, and looks now to have a couple of branches starting. I have been wondering how long it would take to send out the side sprouts. I did cut back on the light exposure a bit, which got me wondering if higher light might mean flowering at the expense of offshoots and vice versa in lower light?

OldDutch, I'm wondering how many weeks it was between your setting these leaves and babies appearing? You wrote about 4 weeks ago that you were finally getting babies from leaves that you'd set "quite a while back."

I set a couple of leaves 4 weeks ago. No sign of babies yet. The first time I took leaves (last June), they were "old leaves." I didn't see any babies for SIX MONTHS. And those babies have been "meh" in their vigor, since transplanting. I'm hoping these new leaves, from the "ideal row," Row 3, will perform better. But no idea what to expect.

My mother plant is doing exceedingly well again, after my "cannibalization" scare. She has a beautiful crown of flowers, and some of them are super-sized, well over 1.25" in diameter.

Some other violets in my collection seem to have floppy flower stems, particularly some of the flamboyant Russians and frilly-edged violets. (Exeption: Space violet "EverGlory" is holding its frilly flowers and frilly foliage up outstandingly.) Rebecca, and other singles, don't seem to have this problem, in my house.

I gotta say a goodly number of months between setting the leaves and any babies, at least 4 or 5, but there are several babies now on at least four of the leaves. I used old leaves, too. Something seems to have triggered the babies... I did not bag my cuttings; so they got the ambient humidity. The plant room is not heated either except by the lights; so nights might have been a little chilly, but not by much. Rebecca is the only AV I have and it looks like my mother plant which got put under a lower light intensity is showing the start of branching as she winds down her flowering, only a couple of flower stems left now, but a very nice crown of healthy leaves and a bit of a neck, but I will put off the King Charles effect until I have babies well established on their own.

I have to wonder whether light intensity determines whether the stem buds break into flowers or branch into side heads... If anybody out there knows, I would like to hear.

Wow, 4-5 *months.* Yet like me in my first instance you used fairly old leaves. She may be worth it, but that's a heck of a long time. The babies I transplanted are growing, but only ever so slowly. I wonder if the lack of vigor is due to my having used old leaves.

Well, I will watch the younger leaves I set and report their progress in this thread. Obviously there won't be much to say if they sulk.

Your comment about lighting makes me think maybe I should intensely light these leaves. (Joanne, Irina, where are you??)

It strikes me as odd that a plant that performs so well - and mine is again in full glory right now - should be so hard to raise from scratch.

Joan

Edit: we're WAY beyond the space violet babies now, that I originally asked about, and into a different cultivar altogether. Both OldDutch and I have observed that Rebecca seems slow to send up babies, relative to other violets. There appears to be NO danger of a "Rebecca invasion," hah. We could only wish.

What experience do the rest of you have, with regard to slow-to-reproduce AVs? Do they grow out of their slowness? Does being "slow" tend to mean they're super-tough and eventually super-resilient, as OldDutch's and my experience seems to suggest?

My AV reproduction time was consistently long ... until I learned to cut the stems a lot shorter ... no longer than an inch or less. The explanation is that the new plants start from the end of the cut stem, and the longer the stem, the further the stem is inserted into the soil, ... and the further the plant starts have to grow to reach the surface of the soil.

Once I started to cut my stems shorter, the time it took leaves to send up plantlets was much shorter.

Thereafter, I didn't see that much difference between different plants reproducing.

Some plants do grow faster than others. I'm not sure there is much you can do about that, as long as you are already providing ideal growing conditions.

P.S. Warmth also is said to quicken AV reproduction ...

Thanks, Aegis.

I never have particularly long stems (my violets don't seem to grow that way), nor bury them deeply, so it's not that. I'm pretty careful to cut them on an angle also, and plant on a shallow angle. In my first attempt, temp should not have been an issue, since I took the leaves in June. (BUT they were old leaves, harvested from a re-potting, so that's why I figured they were so slow. At this date, 9 months later, I still have babies - BABIES - from that propagation, all of which remain small, and one of which is trending yellow. I should really just compost the lot.)

I took care to not take Rebecca leaves until day length was obviously increasing, and ambient temps are in the upper 60's at least. Usually around 68-70. If I were to have to supply bottom heat to propagate, I could do that; but I'm just not sure I'm willing, anymore. Been there, done that, know how to do it, but as a cranky old lady who has played that game as a younger woman, I find myself less and less inclined to inconvenience myself for the sake of a plant.

It's been my decision lately to do well what I can do well, and not to twist myself into a pretzel over plants that don't love me.

Reminds me of what I told myself back in my college years: Be who you are. If somebody loves that, THAT is your guy. It was a long time before I got married, but when I did... it was Right.

There are now babies popping out of the soil around the stems of my Rebecca leaves as well as those growing on the leaves. Population explosion! They are all still too tiny for me to handle; but there are going to be a bunch of them before this is all over.

Good for You!!!! Rosie

So ... I think that you have correctly diagnosed your issue ... the use of older leaves.

Propagation is a months-long process ... you should use every advantage available to keep it as short as possible.

I really doubt that the propagation of any popularly available Optimara variety is truly difficult. Holtkamp, the producers of Optimara AV's, produce millions every year.

I happened upon a Optimara production video. In it, the spokesperson estimates that it typically takes 34 weeks to get from the stage of putting down a leaf ... to shipping out finished (and blooming) plants from that leaf. They've really got it down to a science ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z1PXc79V3k&ab_channel=OPTIMARA

P.S. The Optimara rep says it takes about 16 weeks to get viable leaf starts ...

Great video

Joan, Irina is the light expert. This discussion has been fun to read about all your expertise and amazing projects. Hats off to all you four Violeteers. You keep us motivated. Joan, I admire your precision.

I have been on kind of a violet siesta. Now I am gearing up again.

Most of my current AVs that carried over from last year are from a local grower who uses mostly older stock. They are non-Optimaras, vigorous, but bloom seasonally.

Those that I bought mail order that are newer cultivars from long-distance sources bloomed profusely and continously. Then went kaput!

A batch of minis I bought last summer

from Linda of Bloomin' Jungle are exceptionally vigorous. Joanne

Hi aegis, thank you for the video. It shows how the babies can be handled. I was reluctant to chance being too rough, but now I will just be careful.

Joanne,

I took a bit of a break from hand-wringing over the violets during January and February. My amaryllis and orchid collections were coming into full glory (while I lost a couple violets and a couple more declined [but maybe repotting has revived them, it kinda looks like it], and I have to say I'm not feeling all that remorseful), which made me realize (once again) that I have too many plants for display in my prime positions. I refuse to hide plants under lights in the basement: there's no point, in my house anyway. This past winter has made me reevaluate some of my plants, as to "keeper"/"give away".

Sounds like you too said "uff da" for a while. I think that's totally okay, and a rhythm of life. There's no need to do everything well at all times, and sometimes we just have to, well, shift our attention a little. For whatever reason.

I only came here to say that.

Hey Northern Gardener, don't feel bad about your re-evaluations. We all go thru it at one time or another. Technically it is better to have one beautifully grown plant than an entire light shelf set up of not so cared for half blooming violets.

Quality not quantity. It is ok to say that.

There are times I look at it all and say "Why?". And sometimes I slack off because of it. Oh well,,,,Then I make decisions. So it is all ok, as long as I can LIVE with the decisions I made. If I made the wrong ones well,,,,my bad. Suck it up buttercup!!! My life goes on regardless!!!! Rosie

Rebecca-ettes: spring is breaking out in babies!

All six leaves arer sprouting! Some on the leaf edges all of them poking out from the medium.

Woo hoo, good for you, OldDutch! I only set two leaves, about 6 weeks ago. No babies yet, but I have other things to distract me.

Just as a general observation, I see that your leaves look like they're curling down and getting "fat", just like mine always seem to do. Do other leaf-propagators notice this? No real question. Just an observation. But if anybody wants to comment on why (Irina? You here?), that would be interesting.

Joan

Hi Joan, they were bottom layer leaves and really have not changed much over time. They anchored pretty securely in the medium and stayed firm and actually quite brittle. They never did wilt in the least. Early on I decided to just keep them watered as long as they didn't wilt, and they didn't. I did not bag these, although I suspect that it would have speeded things up a bit, and perhaps bottom heat might have helped also.

The main plant has a nice full 10" rosette but is developing a bit of a neck; so it is coming on time to repot her soon. She just keeps blooming though.

Joan, thanks for update. Always fun to visit and see updates. "Uff da?"??? Not sure of meaning.

I also like to display what I can. The recent retail batch I got can stay in our outdoor greenhouse. Joanne

Joanne, "Uff da" is a Scandinavian and specifically Norwegian way of saying "omg," and is equally mild in expression. It can mean lots of different things, depending on the context. It connotes "Oh geez" and "wow" (in a not-great way), etc.

I was raised with "uff da," quoted by my most modest and very correct forebears. Old Norwegian expressions are all alive here in Minnesota with me, and maybe OldDutch is totally in tune, even if he's not Scandinavian (and I have no idea, but given the Viking history, it's unlikely he doesn't share Scandinavian genes with me, in spite of his Handle.)

"Uff da" expresses normal daily frustrations. It's just that slightly more "innocent" than actually saying the words associated with "omg".

You can buy an "Uff Da" mug on lots of websites. Or Vikings mugs. Etc. Apparently we have a certain cachet these days.

Yeah, I have heard Uff Da plenty often.

Fascinating!!

OldDutch et al,

This is the thread that, amazingly, refuses to die.

The Rebecca leaves that I set in mid-February have both sent up baby sprouts within the last four days. That means the wait time was about 8-9 weeks, before children emerged.

I am hopeful that they may be more vigorous than the pallid nothings I tried to start from *old* leaves last June. Those plants haven't been tossed yet, but given their pathetic growth rate I'm pretty sure I will shortly be tossing them, in favor of the next generation.

Meanwhile, the babies I originally posted about, Space Violet EverYoung, are doing well.

Next question: they're in little "Solo" cups now, but getting relatively big. What's the next step? I could go to 2x2" square plastic pots (would be a significant increase of root space), or full 4" pots. I don't have 3" round pots, and am unwilling, unless absolutely required, to order/use more plastic than whatever is already on hand.

What do you all think?

I will, typically, pot plants that size up to a 4" pot.

If you don't want to buy more pots,,,,,hold off til you buy a plant from the garden center in a pot that looks about the right size and THEN repot!!!!! Or a yogurt container if you eat that type of thing. OR a cottage cheese container,,,,,since your plants will grow large rapidly. Just ideas,,,,,Rosie

Thanks, Aegis and Rosie. I might go straight to 4" pots, because the ones I have are somewhat shallow anyway - shallower than the 4" pots that AVs come in from the stores. Yogurt cups, hmm. That's definitely a possibility.

One thing I've noticed about "space" violets is that they do tend to get big and need a lot of, well... space. ;)

It works better if you move them to 3" first and 3 months later - in a final pot. Slip-potting without disturbing the rootball. For whatever reason - they like it better this way.

I think I'll go dig out my collection of 2.5" square pots. They're definitely intermediate between Solo cup size and 4". It seems like the careful way to go, and I don't mind having to repot again fairly soon, if these plants grow fast.

I am not sure why, exactly, but I have always heard it advised that plants should be moved up only one pot size at a time. My guess would be it has to do with forming a proper root ball.

I've picked out two of each of my youngsters to keep, and intend to give the others away. I think I'll just put them out on NextDoor and let someone come and get them and do their own up-potting. There's no AV club anywhere near me.

Cool! The leaves I set back in Feb have babies now but I think it will be about 4-6 weeks until I try to separate them; and mama just finished a bloom cycle. I did get all my other babies moved up to 2.5" square pots. They look good.

Joan

Rebecca should be a proud mamma!!! Her little ones are a good size to leave the nest!!!! Wonderful !!! Good job Old Dutch! Rosie

I finally got around to repotting my Beckies from the 6 leaves. I was able to rescue 3 of the leaves and reset them and as many as 29 other babies, some real tiny; so maybe half or more will end up making. It looks to me like a couple of the larger ones are already multi-headed...

They are all under a clear plastic seedling dome now to conserve moisture. Once they settle in I will repot the mother plant and set her back down, since she is getting kinda necky.

I have been reacting to one of my meds all winter and finally they changed it out and I am feeling so much better. I had simply run out of zip and things got neglected this winter. Time to catch up.