If I was just doing a cooktop -- would be a Wolf. They make great burners ...

You can get into the weeds with these things .... Have you gone and looked at them ?

The guys from Capitol -- well the main guy. Started out with Garland .. was the one who did the first consumer ..."commercial" Viking. Almost 30 years ago. He departed Viking and started DCS. I went with 48" all gas DCS stoves for two different houses -- the original ones. Before they sold to F&P. He went off and started Capitol. There is a reason all these things look alike.

Capitol and Bluestar are good values ... would not buy a new DCS. Wolf makes a nice product .. don't fixate on the burners. My sister has a 48" and it's great ... I like it better than the Viking I did at my beach house.

My new place is getting a french stove -- everybody knocks them as well. This is a first world problem .... There is no "best"

Never had a Wolf but we were considering one for our current kitchen. CR often does appliance tests, and Wolf is very, very low in consumer confidence and satisfaction. I tend to agree with re is no “best”, however, for the cost of a Wolf it should be better than towards the very bottom of the list....we nixed ours.

I’m doing a 48” Wolf has dual fuel 6 burner w/ griddle in my new build. My appliance guy who’s come over to service my current Jenn Air several times even said their quality is great, and they don’t do a lot of repairs, but when they do it’s usually easy fixes and parts are readily available unlike some brands. My builder only uses Wolf ranges and has been for years, they’re a relatively high end builder with over 40 years in business. So I’m pretty excited. I’m also a realtor and see at least 75% Wolf ranges in high end builds. I think people just complain to complain...you rarely see good reviews on anything these days.

Well, we could discuss this subject till the cows come home....you will always get differing opinions. One must keep this in mind: everyone has their own motivation for buying a certain appliance; some people buy appliances according to what works the best (because they USE them), and some people buy them (esp. the expensive ones) be they CAN, and because they look good and impressive. OF COURSE high end builders want to use expensive, well-known brands.....it looks great when people walk into your house and see all the Wolf, Sub-Zero etc! I had a neighbor at our previous house (she had Wolf, Sub-Zero etc) who looked down her nose at everyone who didn’t have $25000 worth (15+ years ago) of appliances in their kitchen....everything had to “match”, look and sound good....and she was not even a big cook, always had to have repairs done etc....and I say this despite her being a friend. And for people out there who want everything by the same brand: we have been told several times (by reputable sellers) that no brand out there makes the best of everything; therefore, if you want to buy what works best in each category, you would have to buy several different brands. Nothing out there will please everyone, nor are appliances made “like they used to be”; my father has a Miele washer that is almost 30 years old, still looks good, not outdated, runs like a charm....I asked him how often he has to have it serviced or repaired: never! In the meantime I have had at least 3 sets of W/D. I talked to an appliance seller about this once, and he told me that manufacturers don’t make appliances to last anymore (allegedly purposely), because nowadays people update and/or renovate every 5 years or so and a long-lasting appliance is no longer even needed.

Don't forget the 50 something-inch capture aperture hood you will need for this 48-inch range, and the equally powerful (or at least equally high flowing) make-up air system needed to feed it.

I have no issues with my Wolf hood. My Wolf/Broan/NuTone roof blower is still running after a decade. (I have another NuTone roof blower still running after at least 3 decades.)

My Wolf double wall oven once needed repair, but otherwise has worked well. Average temperatures across the setting range in the one oven I have calibrated so far were right on the settings, given that the temperature of the air must fluctuate around the setting value using any reasonable control loop.

@TAG

Thank you for your response. Between BS and CC, I think I like the CC burner design better. The star design seems like it would produce a hotspot in the center. Being someone who has written simulation software capable of thermal analysis, you would obviously need more flame the further out you go in the radial direction....which is not what the star burner does. I called Capital and asked about recommended service in my area, and they recommended a guy who has 1.5 stars on yelp, with many complaints about rudeness and charging $200 just to walk in the door. Not that this is Capitals fault, but it is sort of a reflection of how connected they are to their post purchase care. Also, I don't know about "value" with Capital and BS, as they are pretty close in price to Wolf....like 10% difference. Indeed this is all a first world problem!😁

Randy -- If I walked into any home and started to cook on any of them ...I'm sure I would be happy. I'm building a new house and while it's very expensive -- I can never get past the. "How much is that subzero refrigerator" each time I build. Do I need a 11k refrigerator for two people when I can get Miele for 6k. No I don't ...and since I have had both ... bought the Miele for my new house. We love the 2k french door Amana at our beach place!! It's the same with the dishwasher -- I have always had Bosch w/o any issues. So, I bought the Thermador because the cool blue lights got me and it was a good deal.

When DCS was sold and they changed the stoves ... went with the Viking. It is a great stove .... I can't say why I like the old DCS units better .... maybe it's the paying more for the Viking and not seeing the extra value?

I think that's the thing --- people say .. why pay more for the Wolf/ Viking when you can get "X"

We cook a lot and do I really know what's going on between the 15k and 18k burners .... they are only up all the way for any length of time heating water.

The grates on the Wolf are very nice ... as far as cleaning. I toss as much in the dishwasher as possible.

My first DCS had the grill and griddle ...... grill was a pain. Like the griddle -- although my sister uses a grill pan for her Wolf and it's just as nice. I like the 48 size for the two ovens -- I never need all the top burners.

So my new house has a Lacanche ..... will I like it? How bad can it be?

@M Thanks for your response. I do not really put too much weight in CR ratings on this sort of thing. There is value in simplicity and your statement about "unnecessary gizmos that can break" is very true...I don't particularly like the electronic touchscreen control panel in the new Wolf ovens. Who needs/wants that? At least they don't have wifi in their ranges like some...as if I am so lazy I can't get off the couch to turn on the oven!

The way I see it Wolf and BS are essentially the same price...BS arguably has higher performing burners, but Wolf has better ovens (aside from the potential flaking), and a better grill.

It is too bad that Wolf doesn't have their wok burner as an option in the range! At 35K Btu, that thing looks pretty awesome. Like you I would prefer a range top with wall ovens...but it doesn't really fit into my kitchen design unless I....well...this is another topic. Lets just say the ovens probably are going to have to go under a cabinet somewhere...and forcing a wall oven would take from the open feel of the kitchen...but hell...If I could get a 24" griddle and the wok burner and 2 regular burners on a 60" range, I would totally do it! The range is a nice "compact" solution for a cooktop and 2 ovens even at 48".

And thanks for suggesting LaCanche, but I am looking primarily appliances that are made in the USA.

@coray I am aware of the folks who just want something impressive. I just want a great product, and I while Wolf is quite expensive, we have decided that we are spending a lot on the addition, so we should get what we really want even if it isn't the most practical decision. The question about "what we want" is answered as "a high performing appliance that is reliable and looks good as well". Unfortunately my efforts to avoid a built-in fridge have failed. Apparently we need a 42" fridge to keep proportions with the 48" range...so that is a minimum of $9K for the fridge...at which point we just will get a SZ for $11K. It is all such a ridiculous suspension of frugality!

The star design seems like it would produce a hotspot in the center. Being someone who has written simulation software capable of thermal analysis, you would obviously need more flame the further out you go in the radial direction....which is not what the star burner does.

You would think that, wouldn't you? But that's only true if you look at the burner in isolation. In practice, there would always be a pot ontop of the burners. And that forces air flow from the center to the outsides. If I look at my burners when in use, they spread the heat extremely evenly.

On the other hand, I have an old-school capped Viking range, and -- oh my -- those burners have crazy hotspots.

@kaseki I will be doing a 54" Vent-a-hood. Pretty sure this is a good decision. I do have to raise it a little more than recommended to save me from bumping my head on it, but it shouldn't be too much more than 3'2" above the cooking surface.

We had a wolf range in our previous house. Wasn't a fan of the burners. Maybe the burners have changed since then. It was back in 2002. 2 Le Creuset pots damaged by hot spots and that was on low and simmer. We do not have that problem with our Blue Star.

In our custom built home, I purchased 2 Wolf wall ovens. I did a LOT of research, but did not take Consumer Reports seriously. In my experience, they do not rate any high-end appliance very high.

I was well aware of the potential for the flaking of the oven interiors and so I chose Wolf with my eyes open in terms of this. However, I decided that the user interface and overall performance outweighed the low risk of the flaking. I do not use the self-cleaning feature. It's not great for the electronics of any brand of oven. Instead, I use Fume-Free Easy-Off and that has worked well.

One of the biggest things that sold me on Wolf, especially versus Miele, was their service. If you call Wolf, you will speak to a live, friendly person. That is not the case with other manufacturers.

Overall, I am very happy with my Wolf wall ovens.

The star design seems like it would produce a hotspot in the center. Being someone who has written simulation software capable of thermal analysis, you would obviously need more flame the further out you go in the radial direction....which is not what the star burner does.

You would think that, wouldn't you? But that's only true if you look at the burner in isolation. In practice, there would always be a pot ontop of the burners. And that forces air flow from the center to the outsides. If I look at my burners when in use, they spread the heat extremely evenly.

On the other hand, I have an old-school capped Viking range, and -- oh my -- those burners have crazy hotspots.

@M The burner in isolation is not really what I was thinking about when I made the statement. I am saying that even flame on the bottom of the pan does not necessarily translate to even temperature on the cooking surface of the pan. There is a good discussion in the comment section of this post:

https://www.chowhound.com/post/measuring-practical-heat-conductivity-cast-iron-aluminum-738175

Of course that discussion is an empty pan. With food in the pan, it changes the amount of heat being pulled from the inside of the pan...but it is a good discussion nonetheless.

We can try to reason about different theoretical models to explain our observations. But in the end, they must line up with the observations or the model is wrong.

All I can tell you is that for about 10 years I've been cooking with cast iron and thin carbon steel. These are about the worst materials for smoothing out heat distribution. Using my pots on the Viking is very frustrating. There is a very obvious hot and cold area. On the other hand, the Bluestar is unreal in how it works with these pots. I suppose there still is a minor star pattern, if you tested with a heat gun. But in practice it feels perfectly even everywhere.

Even better is cooking in the wok. The round shape of the wok and the radial shape of the burners work together to give you very high heat in the center that then gradually falls off towards the sides. Just the way you want it when wok cooking. I've never before seen that implemented this well in any other residential stove.

@M I assume your Viking has a ring shaped closed burner like the Wolf? Using my GE range with closed/capped burners, and a Loge skillet, I notice about a 50 degree difference between the center and the peak temperature midway between the center and the edge...but then there is a 50 degree difference around the perimeter of the peak location because either the burners are not outputting evenly around the circle, or the skillet is pretty non-uniform. I suspect it is a bit of both. Always, I wonder if you ever hit your skillet with a thermoIR to confirm your impression? Not saying you don't see what you see, but I just like data.

We've had two Wolf's that we were quite happy with and planned to get a third in our new house. However, the new burners are really quite awful vs their prior burner design or vs BS. The new Wolf burners create more unevenness across pans and throw a lot of heat out to the edge which heats the sides of pans (which you don't want), throw a lot of uncomfortable heat and effluent towards the cook, and waste energy.

Being able to Wok on the BS is a bonus.

The Wolf griddle is better than BS. We use our griddle a lot both as a griddle and as a flat top / linear french top so this was important.

Except for blue chipping, ovens appear similar except BS has a bit better broiler.

In the end the burners were the deciding factor for us. Easier to make the BS griddle work than the poor Wolf burners.

FWIW, I am still a huge fan of SZ refrigerators.

----

I would stay far away from VAH. They are quite loud and are only marginal with effluent removal - when clean. As they get dirty they get louder and effectiveness declines quickly so you have to clean them quite often.

More:

https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/5161173/hood-faq

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5745986/commercial-range-hood-install

@opaone Thanks for the information. I have been a little torn with the Wolf vs BS vs CC thing. In reality I would like a Wolf range-top 60" with a 24" griddle, AND the wok burner (doesn't exist), and a separate Gag oven under counter, and a steam/convection oven on the other side. I truly don't understand why Wolf can't get their act together. A single open power-burner in conjunction with their Dual-Stacked burners would be a slam dunk rangetop IMO. Oh...and ovens that don't shed porcelain flakes.

I honestly hadn't done that much research on the hood, but I had assumed that the VAH would do better because it had a larger containment volume, where as the Wolf (and others) hood has baffles right at the bottom of the hood, leading to essentially no volume. I scanned through your threads, and while there is a lot of good technical information, I am at a bit of a loss as to what I should do with the information. I mean I probably don't need a commercial level venting setup. I was planning on:

1. A 54" wide hood as deep as I can buy, at a height of 6"4" from the floor so I don't bang my head on it.
2. Perhaps have a blower on the roof, or inline rather than in the hood. The sales guy who was pro-VAH had said that the internal blower in VAH would be quieter and more effective than the external blower....but I imagine you can provide better information.
3. Do you have an out-of-the box suggestion? Obviously not VAH :) Wolf? Zeph? Broan? something else?

Thanks!!

More containment volume (called reservoir in some commercial hood reports) aids smoothing of the plume flow across the entire baffle space. When this volume is minimized to a modest tent shape, such as in my Wolf Pro Island hood, the amount of averaging is modest (I don't count it). In hoods with the baffles flat across the bottom there is no averaging. Averaging allows the flow rate into the baffles (CFM) to be lower than no averaging, so long as the plume size(s) at the baffles do not completely cover the baffle space. In other words, using a few of 'n' burners or hobs allows some leeway in flow rate.

VaH, of course, has no baffles; the squirrel cage blowers perform centrifugal extraction. However, the reservoir area in their hoods is somewhat irregular, and it is unclear to me without observing one for a long time whether plume escape is still possible if the flow rate averaged over the hood aperture is not the roughly 90 CFM/sq. ft. I recommend for baffled hoods when hot oily/greasy cooking is being performed.

Reservoir volume is limited in residential hoods for many valid reasons so we need not agonize over it unless intending to use a commercial or semi-commercial hood.

Noise is minimized by putting the blower distant from the hood and using a silencer in the path.

Some people here have noted VaH being noisier, and at least one @clinresga measured his VaH against his more conventional hood in another house, and found that the VaH was measurably noisier. This was circa 10 years ago, so VaH may have improved since then.

I've lost track; are we addressing a wall or island hood requirement?

@kaseki Wall hood. I am trying to avoid an island range...but it would be an island if I don't do the range, and opt for a range top and separate stacked wall ovens.

With respect to height above the counter: I recommend you draw the configuration from a side view and include a stick figure cook to your dimensions. Allow the cook to bend at the waist to see the arc of his head. For most hoods, they are far enough away that the arc saves some hood-to-counter height. A hood that is very deep such that the cook is under the edge standing straight will need to be head height.

A card board mock up is an awesome low tech solution to answering this question very easily .

@kaseki @M

Since I am going to try for the deepest hood...so that would be 27" for the Wolf, I think I will have to set it for staining straight up. So I could probably do 6'2" without scalping myself at some point.

Mounting the hood higher and then making it deeper and increasing the capture volume works quite well. We did that with our ModernAire hood. Their hoods are built to order; so, it's easy to ask for adjustments to the dimensions. They can't accommodate every request. But they're generally very nice to work with

@M Custom hoods?? You are trying to get me in trouble :)

Except for blue chipping, ovens appear similar except BS has a bit better broiler.

@opaone

The gas oven in the BS range is a bit better than the electric M-series in the Wolf range? I actually didn't find much info on the oven in the BS range.

Gas and electric are very different regardless of mfr. Gas produces a moist environment that's better for breads, roasting, etc. Electric produces a dry environment (unless it includes a steam system such as the Miele Moisture Plus) that's better for cakes, etc.

@Randy

hi randy

did you end up getting the wolf rangetop or bluestar? we looked at both and were originally swayed by all the Houzzers towards BS but when we used it in person it actually felt like too much gas/heat. i know im in the minority here. im also not a fan of the industrial aesthetic.

what makes the double stacked wolf burners bad? do they heat unevenly? we are not getting a griddle or wolf ovens so not sure if there are other rangetops we should be looking at.

please let me know what you got and if you are happy cooking on it.

The Wolf burners throw heat towards the edges of the pans, for cooking you want the opposite - a slight bit more towards the center of the pan which actually results in a more even heat across the pan. With Wolf the sides of pans get hot which you generally do not want and more heat is thrown to outside the pan - in to cook face, on to hands making it less comfortable to stir and for some pans making the handles hotter as well as generally producing more unnecessary heat in the kitchen.

FWIW, we've been in our new kitchen with the BS RNB for about 2 years now and that was definately the right decision for us.

More: https://bamasotan.us/2020/12/the-kitchen/

I checked the link to your kitchen — so beautiful. my concern about the bluestar is that it might be too much heat. you mentioned you had a wolf before and did not like the way it cooked. what do you think of thermador?

i really don’t know why this decision has been so difficult for me…

Our Wolf had the older burners which were better than the new ones. Our default was that we'd simply get another Wolf. That changed when we saw the new burners and experienced them which led to researching alternatives. IIRC Thermador failed on a number of elements and wasn't seriously considered but can't remember the details. Our RNB has proven much better than even our older Wolf with the older and better Wolf burners.

As to too much heat. They have knobs, you can turn them down :-) Heat is essential to good cooking and I occasionally wish for a bit more. A 35k btu would be nice :-) You don't have to use all of it's capabilities though you may find that you can do things with the extra heat that you've never been able to do before.

And, for us it was actually more about eveness than overall heat.