Genetics?

Or, maybe the plants are still too young?

Soil type can also affect their ability and willingness to sucker. Heavy soil inhibits it,particularly with weaker types or plants, while a lighter, richer soil encourages it.

Give it time. My grafted 'Great Maiden's Blush' (not a Gallica, I know) was probably in the ground a decade before it began to sucker, but now it runs all over the place.

My worst-suckering rose so far is Kazanlik. Ugh, it is spreading into a 10x10' area, which is not what I wanted or envisioned when I planted him. I've started trying to cut off the suckers but even after that, I still seem to get sprouts in the area where I pulled. Is it because I waited too long to cut the suckers?

Duchess of Portland is also being a pain, spreading beyond her allotted space.

@slumgullion in southern OR

'Kazanlik', suckering??? That seems unlikely. That variety is not generally known for suckering. Are you certain its 'Kazanlik'?

@User, I just went and checked the tag and it definitely says Kazanlik. Ordered from Heirloom in 2014. Here are some pics:

It definitely has an insanely strong perfume.

Do you think it looks like someone other than Kazanlik?

Thanks for your input!!

...I went online to HMF and looked up Kazanlik, and the flowers definitely don't look much like my "Kazanlik." They look more similar to Gloire de Guilan, which I also have from Heirloom in 2014. I wonder if that one is really GdG or if it is Kazanlik?!! My GdG does look like the pics on HMF but those pics look similar to HMF Kazanlik pics.

Any ideas what my "not Kazanlik" is?

@slumgullion in southern OR That is definitely NOT 'Kazanlik'. Your plant is a Gallica, hence the suckering. It's not 'Gloire de Guilan' either.

Seems like Errloom is still shipping mislabeled plants. They had this problem dating way back to when the Clements still ran things. They were especially bad at labeling the Gallicanae correctly.

I see they no longer offer either of those cultivars, possibly because they were culled for being misidentified.

slumgullion in southern OR

Kazanlik looks like Autumn Damask--same ancestry, same cross. I bought mine about 15 years ago from Pickering.

I did get a mislabeled York & Lancaster from Pickering at the same time (I believe it's Bella Donna) and two three mislabeled Alba Maxiimas, the second and third replacements for the original. All three were Maiden's Blush--these three plus the Miaden's Blush I originally ordered doing well.

I didn't know Heirloom had the reputation of sending mislabeled plants--was half considering an order but now maybe not. I think I will have to replace my Portland rose and might like to add Indigo.

Lindsey

SlumG,

Yes, as Paul identified, definitely a Gallica. Maybe it’s garden conquering Charles de Mills incognito. Ha, ha...ouch! In my opinion, Gallicas like Belle de Crecy and Duchesse de Montebello are as fragrant as any Damask. Portlands and Damasks, and as Melissa noted even Albas, can sucker in time, but my beloved Gallicas are the biggest bed hogs. I cut suckers by watering well and then slicing deep into the soil between the sprout and the mother plant, using a sharp shovel to reach the stolon underground, and then I remove the whole strand. If you can slice closer to the mother, all the better. Lather, rinse, repeat. Once the number of traveling shoots are reduced, it becomes easier to keep Gallica spread under control. The hardest chore is the knocking back the plants after they’ve run amok for awhile. Been there. Done that. My sympathy on the mislabeling! Your Gallica is a breathtakingly gorgeous, gorgeous thing, but it is so frustrating when you seek out a particular old rose and get something else entirely. Ugh.

Paul, any idea on the ID of this one? Heirloom used to have so many in its stock.

Carol

Hmph. I sure don't like getting mislabeled roses, it messes up my plans.

I have Charles de Mills elsewhere, which I think came from Greenmantle, and matches the HMF description pretty closely (except that he hasn't suckered far and wide yet, only a few inches from his original spot). His color has more purple in it than the mystery pink in the front yard.

Any other suggestions of what my mystery gallica could be, would be most welcome!

I'm tempted to dig the darn thing out, now that I know it isn't even the right rose, and is suckering where I don't want it to, and also isn't tall enough for what I want in that location.

It is powerfully fragrant though - stronger than just about anything else, at least as far as I've smelled this year - so maybe I'll just relocate it to the back where it can spread without bothering me.

...Having looked at the pictures of CdM on HMF, now I'm a bit terrified about him!! I mean yes I wanted a rose that would spread in that location, but I didn't want one that would eat a quarter of my property! He's in a location where there's a brick wall on one side (can he go under the wall and come up in my lawn?), and the other sides are areas he's welcome to spread into, except now I'm worried he'll go all the way across the property line, turn the corner and come up in my neighbor's lawn. Should I be worried???? Maybe I should dig a trench along the property line, and/or on the back side of the wall, and put down bamboo root barrier?

Lindsey,

High Country has Indigo in stock.

Carol

SlumG,

If it’s any help, in my experience even CdM can’t swallow the planet overnight...yet. Your Gallica is absolutely stunning and a real keeper in my opinion. Heirloom used to have so many rare and beautiful OGRs back in the day. You might have something uncommon and very special. I am crap at IDing online, but maybe Paul or others in the know will recognize your rose. Melissa grows more Gallicas than I can even imagine in my wildest gardening dreams! If you want to swap rose starts sometime, I can see if I have something you want. I wish I could offer Kazanlik. I only have the following Damasks: Botzaris, La Ville de Bruxelles, a tiny Crested Damask and a handful of Portlands.

Carol

Thanks Carol! I definitely will keep the gallica somewhere, just not right where it is now. I guess I should prune off a sucker and get a new plant going? I'm not sure if transplanting the main plant will work, it has been in the ground for the better part of a decade at this point.

I sure would like to ID it; Paul B. suggested Aimable Rouge, which seems like a possibility except AR is only supposed to have a moderate fragrance, while mine is powerfully scented.

I wish there were somewhere I could send a cutting to have DNA done...I'd be willing to pay to have the analysis done, if it would let me figure out which rose it is!

Thanks for the comments about CdM....there are some pics on HMF of what looks like ocean-sized thickets of CdM, which are gorgeous but, ahem, not what I'm looking to end up with...!

Slumgullion,

I agree that DNA testing would be a real help with a rose like your Gallica. Heirloom used to have an OGR list a mile long, and there may have been others that were grown but weren’t listed. If yours is AR, that’s a rare one in the US. If it’s not AR, it is likely still a rare one. Lucky you...except that your rose is the wrong one and planted in the wrong spot. Sigh. Big fragrance is a real plus! If it is AR, it might be that your nose or climate heightens the detectable fragrance. I wish I could get a whiff! You might see if Melissa grows AR. Paul doesn’t list AR on his site, so there’s no description of fragrance rating there. I encourage you to propagate a few before the move. I just killed an old rose I tried to move. D@m and double d@m!

I am boldly unleashing Cardinal de R into my back garden. My spade is in hand, and my eyes are preparing to vigilantly search the bed for stray suckers.

Carol