Flowers how important is fragrance to you? It’s beautiful and healthy but no scent

Kristine: I love the color of your Frida Kahlo, makes me happy !!

Flowers: From the pics. that others posted in Houzz, I think Celestial Night is a WOW rose, scent doesn't matter when it's a continuous bloomer like Roseseek (Kim Rupert)'s thornless Lynnie with zero blackspots, zero mildew and I never water it. It blooms much earlier than Knock-out and FlowerCarpet in 3 hours of dappled sun !! Imagine what a blooming machine it would be in full sun. Always blooming from May to Thanksgiving. I like it way more than Knock-outs and FlowerCarpet (bloom in 3 flushes, even after they become own-roots). Lynnie is 10th-year-own-root & CONTINUOUS BLOOMING thanks to its spreading roots.

Here is another of my WOW old once blooming roses - Belle Portugal. This one grew 15 feet tall before it would bloom (hybrid gigantica) , so all of the photos of it I have are staring straight up at it. The original plant died, but I grabbed a cutting as it was dying, and put it with several other cuttings I was setting up to root. All of them died except one, and I was SURE that was Le Vesuve, which I was rooting for a friend. Well, after 2 years in a giant pot, it started to sprout up, and has thrown out sturdy canes which are at least 10 feet long and growing longer. So, not Le Vesuve. The only other rose it can be is BP, and I am so happy, because I have 3 bushes of LV, but none now of BP. I can't wait to plant it in the new rose garden (with a fancy metal deer fence all around it my DH is building for me) somewhere where it can grow up a tree, since we are not allowed to grow roses up our houses anymore. I love the elegant, translucent blooms. The old one stopped foot traffic on the sidewalk in front of our house when it was blooming - truly. Here is a close-up pic, and one of the top of the original bush:

WOW, simply wow. how do you do this @strawchicago z5? 140+ roses!!!

thanks for sharing the performer list. i especially loved the look of Poseidon.

Oursteelers, scent is not important if it has other good qualities. I like fragrance in my patio bed since those roses are up close to where we sit a lot. However, in this dry climate, I rarely detect scent unless it's very strong. Jude, Eglantyne, Munstead are a good bet, but not many others.

Straw, I love Lynnie!! Thanks for the pix and info. That's not the rose I had in my mind as Lynnie. Must have had it mixed up with something else. I'll track it down. Burling, maybe.

Think I'll go ahead with Celestial Night if there are any left tomorrow morning. Her weekly specials sell out super fast. I don't remember reading anything negative about it except for no scent.

Just saw Jacqueline's photo of Fortune's Double Yellow. Definitely a WOW!! Why aren't we all growing that rose?!

@jacqueline9CA - I'm so jealous that you can grow this rose. It is so beautiful and reminds me of my days in a more mellow climate.

Straw - I laughed and laughed over your neighbor's silk flowers looking better than your QoS!!!! I feel your pain over that one. :) :) My neighbor planted a Winnipeg Parks (in their raised bed)...it looks stunning with its GIANT red blooms. And then there are my terrible roses. Oh why!! :) :) And your Charles Darwin...used toilet paper!!! Oh, my!!! :) :) Your MP is definitely a WOW rose!!!

Noseometer - like the wind had blown garbage into your yard! I'm dying here laughing. :) :)

Kristine - It's hard to believe that FK and ORA can look so fabulous in that heat!!! WOW!!

Straw - your Lynnie is one of the most beautiful roses I've ever seen!!!! WOWZA!!

Jackie - oh my word!!!!! Incredible!!

wow what an amazing bunch of roses here.

Straw thank you so much for your detail explanation. No wonder I have so much blackspot. Most of my soil looks like your " icky bad sandy loam soil" and I do not do anything to it except add some cow manure or potting soil when I plant if that. It is incredible to see how it all affects health. Thank you very much.

strawchicago - to answer your question "why aren't we all growing that rose?" (Belle Portugaise), it is because according to HMF, it is only cold hardy to zone 8b. That is because of its gigantea parentage. Having said that, I think anyone in that zone or warmer should try it. It is very vigorous and "hardy" in all other senses of the word - in my old neighborhood, it is growing, untended, unwatered, unsprayed, unpruned, etc. in the back areas of several old properties near my house, without any discernable disease whatever. I got my first plant from a cutting of one of those old plants.

Jackie

My wow roses:

PcM

My wow roses:

PcM

Augusta Luise:

Rose Lai: Love those pics !! I like the deeper color of AL.

Rose - your roses are EXQUISITE!!!! I would LOVE to have roses bloom like yours do!!! Man oh man!!!

Rose Lai, gorgeous roses! How do you keep your AL from sending giant canes? My Augusta sends super long canes with lots of buds at the end that end up getting bent and weighed down by the rain. 😫

Everyone gorgeous, gorgeous roses!!! So many I’m adding to my wish List. I definitely want Cardin Mills, Candice and PcdM.

Mas: Carding Mill is truly a continuous bloomer as 10th-year own-root, and Brendan's 1st-year own-root is also a continuous bloomer (he's in NY, zone 5). There's no pause in between since the flushes overlap, and Carding Mill opens bloom one at a time, rather all at once like Princess Charlene de Monaco. Also PcdM is best in partial shade, since blooms bleach in full-sun to boring white.

PcdM is WOW in spring flush, but in 2nd flush blooms can be single-petals due to lack of nutrients or hot weather. Below is PcdM as 4th-year-own-root, full-sun:

Below Princess Anne is a WOW rose even in 4 hrs. of sun. One drawback: there's a pause in between flushes like Princess Charlene de Monaco. Both are 100% healthy, never see blackspots on them:

Straw - !!!! Your Princess Anne is sooooooo gorgeous!!!! I just checked on hmf...fragrance is good, but not strong. Who am I kidding...Austins hate me. LOL That picture of PCdM is AMAZING!!! SWOON!!!!!

Straw - Thankyou so much for starting this thread! I’m only year 3 with roses in my garden, so it’s so helpful when you and others share your experience and learnings. You’re like a big sister sharing all your rose wisdom with me ❤️

Everyone’s pics and comments on Marie Pavie makes me need this WOW rose in my life.

My definition of a WOW rose would be intoxicating fragrance + constant flower power (in addition to health and cold hardiness). I don’t have a WOW rose yet as many of my roses are too young to give fair judgement, but my 3 yr old Heritage is a close WOW for me except that it pauses between flushes. Heritage has a delicious fragrance of honey and iced tea. The blooms are individually perfect, and die beautifully by shattering so that it’s very clean off the shrub. The shrub overall has a graceful loose form that I prefer. I compensate the bloom pause with Flower Carpet Coral (which now I want to replace with Marie Pavie!!) and my hydrangeas which take over as divas while Heritage prepares for another flush.

Here’s Heritage at peak and post peak.

Tina: Lovely garden, and I see your Heritage as the prettiest centerpiece. I have FlowerCarpet Coral for the past 18 years (grafted on Dr. Huey but grew its own-roots since I planted it so deep). Own-roots like Marie Pavie which has a round shape is less messy than FlowerCarpet, but FlowerCarpet can take drought better.

Maslovesroses: my 3 Augusta Luise do not throw octopus cane here in my mild SF climate. I am not sure of the reason, but I don’t fertilizer them as often as some would, and when I do, i don’t use a fertilizer that has nitrogen higher than 10 in the spring, and not higher than 5 in the summer or fall.

Straw: it is interesting how PCoM performs differently in different climate. My pictures above were from the second flush just now, still with many petals. It is a vigorous rose that grows to > 6 feet since her first year in my garden. Very diesase resistent and smells great!

Tina - I love the last hurrah of your fox glove...a few lone blooms at the top of that looooong spire. :) Man, you can really grow Heritage well!!! Mmmmmm :)

Straw - thank you so much for sharing your insights about Flower Carpet Coral vs Marie Pavie. Do you know what kind of soil Marie Pavie prefers? I don't mind FC Coral's frothy, informal habit and the flowers die relatively cleanly for me (no yellow/brown petals hanging on for dear life). I planted mine quite deep too in totally crappy alkaline crumbliness of an excuse for soil and they never have any issues even in my hot and dry summers with all that reflected heat from the sidewalk and paving. So reliable. Maybe I can say FC Coral is a WOW boring rose?...like an Oscar winning supporting actor. I just wish it was fragrant and a softer colour. I chuckle sometimes when I see people pass by, crouching with so much effort to get a sniff of....nothing :P

Rosecanadian - Thank you and yeah the foxglove is funny...it was such an alien that was photobombing the whole front yard design. I planted what was supposed to be 3 strawberry digitalis that I started from seed in that spot and only one survived this past winter...and with a VENGENCE! It grew so tall (not to mention wasn't even the warm pink I was expecting). Regardless, I wanted it to self seed so just left it. I'm hoping next year I get a proper drift of them and I'm also contemplating adding more vertical structure with veronicastrum and grasses. Every bare patch of soil is an opportunity for my plant addiction :P

Tina: if your clay is rock-hard than mine, then making it fluffy with a bag of coarse sand helps with low-thorn roses. My experience with low-thorn roses like Marie Pavie as own-root: they hate my dense clay, but prefer sandy soil. Lavenderlace in Texas reported that all her low-thorn roses: Twice in a Blue Moon, Francis Meilland, Lemon Spice, Jude the Obscure LOVE her sandy spots, and they are 6 times bigger than the same varieties in her clay spots. She has both sand and clay in her garden and has like a dozen Jude, and many of the same own-root varieties.

I moved thornless Annie L. McDowell yesterday since rabbits ate all its leaves. Roots were deep, but just a long brown stick with zero clusters, thanks to my high-magnesium clay that makes soil so dense that tiny-roots can't push through. I planted Annie in a big bag of MG-potting soil, then topped with my dense clay, but the soil below is dry despite 2 weeks of non-stop rain.

Potting soil is INFERIOR in holding moisture compared to sand .. I dug up Veteran's Honor where I mixed coarse sand with clay, and it's wet & fluffy below.

MG-moisture control potting soil changed its formula to more composted bark-chips (sawdust) and less peatmoss, and composted wood-chips can't hold moisture like sand, plus sand doesn't decompose fast like peat moss or wood-chips.

Below bouquet picked today, July 16, showcases my best WOW rose in scent: Lowest White Austin St. Cecilia rules in #1 WOW scent (heavenly floral with a touch of myrrh), next is Golden Celebration (sweet cupcakes), next is Munstead Wood (too fruity for my liking), next is deep pink/orange Sweet M. (sweet nectarine), and least in scent is Double-Delight (smells like lychee if watered if pH 9 tap-water, but YUCK scent with acidic rain).

Below is St. Cecilia as own-root, it prefers fluffy soil and leaves are pale in my dense & alkaline clay. But it's a WOW rose thanks to the amazing scent.

Straw - I think Marie Pavie might do ok for me if I irrigate, but I'm concerned about it's pH preference and to a small degree, salt tolerance. My soil is a DREAM to dig in. No compaction or hard clay anywhere. I live in a very old neighboourhood with a creek that runs behind my house and the soil is a rich loam throughout my property (more sandy in the front and clay towards the creek, higher pH in the front and more acidic towards back). The one problem area is between the sidewalk and my front porch steps. That area is about 6 inches of dark soil under which is sand/silt and concrete construction rubble from when the city upgraded the pipes under the road. Alkaline because of all the concrete. I don't salt in winter, but my neighbour does and sometimes tries to be helpful by salting my sidewalk too. Had two Nikko Blue hydrangeas flanking the steps that got sickly from chlorosis so they were taken out. The previous homeowners would amend the soil yearly with peat and pine straw and who knows what else to keep the Nikko Blue hydrangeas happy, but I'm more of the "right plant, right place" school of thought because I'm a lazy gardener. I've now replaced all the plants with ones that are more resilient for the area. I've left one Nikko Blue at the side of the porch to be my soil pH canary :P

Tina: Knock-out roses can take salt well, I learned that from Rosarian Karl Bapst, zone 5a. But roses grafted on multiflora can't take salt well. With own-root, it depends, the ones that do well in clay can take salty fertilizer better than the cluster-roots that do well in sand.

Tina - such a good idea to go for self-seeding on your Foxglove!! :) :) I'm so happy you have wonderful soil!! Someone here should. LOL :) :)

Straw - oh my goodness!!! What wonderful flowers!!! My faves are the top 3 middle roses: GC, SM and ?? I'm going to try to take some pictures of my sand (haven't used it) and see if you think it's good. The bag says play sand...but it's really coarse and falls through my fingers quickly.

While in my garden and browsing other Houzz forums on a rainy Saturday, I’ve realized I have an underdog rose that has transformed from a boring to a WOW rose this season. The rose is called Chinook Sunrise and was a recent (circa 2018) release from Canada’s Vineland Research and Innovation Centre 49th Parallel Collection of roses bred to bloom own-root in almost any Canadian climate. I bought 3 Chinook Sunrise roses on clearance for $5 after the initial hype curve ended, with the intention to use this “boring” rose as a filler in the landscape.

What makes Chinook Sunrise BORING:

• semi-double blooms that look more single at maturity (this is subjective, but unless the bush is smothered in blooms, single and semi-double roses are visually boring to me)
• fragrance is light in year 1 and 2

What makes Chinook Sunrise WOW:

• Bloom quantity & frequency. At year 3+, this rose increases bloom quantity and frequency exponentially such that it never seems to be without blooms. I think if I didn’t neglect this rose, it would be more flower than foliage.
• Colour versatility. The blooms have a consistent temporal colour variation whether grown in sun or part shade. The blooms start off as a warm golden peach, maturing to pink, and then peak at an almost cool white before the petals fall off. This makes it play nice with warm and cool colours in the garden.
• Intense classic rose fragrance. By year 3, Chinook Sunrise fragrance rivals my most fragrant roses: Munstead Wood, Bolero, Abraham Darby, Julia Child, Heritage, Souvenir de la Malmaison, and Double Blanc de Coubert. In fact, Chinook Sunrise seems to have a constant fragrance intensity any time of day, rain or shine, hot or cold and at any stage of bloom maturity. Very strong wafting occurs in heat. HMF says this rose has little to no fragrance, but that’s definitely not the case for me!
• Additional points for WOWness: this rose seems indestructible. I have treated mine very poorly, including leaving one in a pot indoors in my heated mudroom over winter. And then last winter, the rabbits ate all 3 of mine down to nubs, yet they all bounced back and bloomed like nothing happened. It never sees disease even when it gets poor circulation surrounded by weeds and overgrown perennials. It didn’t blink when we had drought last summer. I let it get devoured by rose sawfly and other pests. I’m so horrible to it!

Here’s a picture of a bloom closeup today and a bush shot of it looking “ugly” post-thunderstorm with neglect and pests. I’m sorry Chinook Sunrise for being so cruel to you!! I will take better care of it from now on and might even promote it to the front garden :)

I wish I see the above in my neighborhood instead of boring Knock-outs (very ugly with spent blooms and ugly bush-shape), that's why I killed 6 of my Knock-outs. I find that own-roots roses smell better than grafted.

My Knock-outs became moderately fragrant at year 4 and beyond (they grow their own-roots once planted in deep in soaking wet clay). I can smell their scents at 6 feet away in cold days, but I kill them since I get sick of seeing them at every corner.

Yes straw! In my picture you can see a little red knockout peaking out from the side of Chinook Sunrise. It’s 5 years old and cannot even compete with the 3 yr old Chinook Sunrise. It got eaten down to nubs too but in general Knockouts don’t perform well for me. I had a double pink that died in drought and the red one that is left has such an ugly bush form. It lacks grace.

Tina, isnt it funny how a rose that we dont even really pay attention to, one day just gets with it and now it becomes a favorite.

Your Chinook Sunrise is really beautiful. I like the singles a lot and the color of yours is just like a beautiful sunrise.

My rose that took off and wowed me is Blue For You. This year ( year 4) it is just so full of blooms, each with different shades of purple, lavender and mauve.

And looking and smelling yummy is Peach Swirl

And Bolero, what a perfect rose

Looking very golden in the morning light

Kristine - your Bolero is so lovely and I can't wait until mine gets a little bigger with more blooms. It's a new addition for me this year and I'm still trying to decide where to site it. Already I can tell it will become a WOW rose for me. The form and fragrance is so beautiful and I've heard the bloom frequency is excellent.

Rosecanadian - Thank you for the compliment on Heritage.

I've been experimenting with something on Heritage that I'm going to do from now on for all my roses: I grow chives and a cat-pee smelling Salvia nemorosa (Blue Hill or May Night, not 100% sure) beneath Heritage. Based on the advice of Sarah Raven (her husband's grandmother is Vita Sackville-West), salvia releases sulfur compounds which help deter rose pests and diseases. I use chives based on the French practice of growing garlic and onions with perfumery roses to improve their fragrance. The pungent odor of onions and garlic comes from sulfur compounds, and I know sulfur is used as both a fungicide and insecticide for crops...so I think both Sarah and the French are on to something :)

Rose sawfly and aphids are a problem for me on all my roses except Heritage. Some more, some less, but Heritage has absolutely zero and I have a no-spray garden. No, this hasn't been scientific, but I'm going to propagate some more of the same salvia and chives and plant them around my other roses this year. Very curious to know if anyone else does this and noticed positive results, or am I just in some bad correlation/causation trap? :P

Thank you, Tina for the above info. I wish I have more sun for salvia. Used to have lots of Blue Hill when my garden had more sun.

Kristine, your three are the same three that are wowing me this year, too. I ignored Blue For You because he never bloomed and never grew. I told him this was his last year so I could use the spot for something else. It's crazy, but he has been covered in clusters of blooms all season, even during the heat, and holding up pretty well. Peach Swirl can almost be taken for granted because her requirements are ..... water. And, since mine gets watered from the lawn sprinkler, she has been a plant it and forget it. Always has clusters of huge blooms that look like dessert. Her blooms got smaller during the 105˚ - 110˚ish days, but she's good at any temp under that. Bolero just never stops. What a fabulous rose. Always perfect in any kind of weather, hot, cold, wet, dry. I'm going to add Marc Chagall to these. He can hold up all his many blooms only because his stems are strong and upright. Impressive bloomer. I get more comments on him than any other.

Tina, I'm going to buy all the chives I can find. I've never much cared for salvia, but starting now, it's my new favorite. The only salvia I have is between irises and a tree peony, so I haven't observed it with roses, but I trust your sources. Thank you!!

Do you cut your salvia to the ground when it finishes blooming? Does it have time for a second bloom in your climate?

Just a thought, but I wonder if other herbs have the same effect as chives. I planted feverfew this year to grow at the base of my roses, hoping for weed control.

Flowersaremusic - LOL! if you have any kind of alliums, that could be used too. I let my chives self-seed so they proliferate around my rose. I also stick leftover grocery store green/spring onion stubs in there too when I have it. Allium “purple sensation” is a pretty prolific self-seeder too, but I find the leaves die ugly so I just stick where other stuff can hide the foliage. I cut back my salvia - some years just the flower stalks, some years to the basal leaves and then I spread it chopped up around the base of the rose so that whatever sulfur wafts up and around. I found that the smellier the salvia, the better. My blue hill / may night do have a second flush either way I cut it back after the first flush. My salvia nemorosa caradonna is not as pungent and perhaps has less sulfur. It also splays for me…maybe too most around the roses.

Flowers, I love Marc Chigall too. The plant its self is so pretty.

My sister jusy ordered a bunch of Allium for fall delivery. It will be my first time to try it

I grow 8 different salvia in the front yard. I give them a trim back to the end of the flower stock to deadhead and get another round of flowers

In the winter some die to the ground and then start all over

The Greggi type just gets prunned to come back.

Thank you both, Tina and Kristine. My May Night was looking so ratty last week, I cut it to the ground, which I've always done, but since that leaves a big bare spot I thought there might be a better way. I'd like to try some other varieties and will prune more carefully and not necessarily to the ground, depending on the type.

Tina - I love that color!! And Chinook Sunrise has a really good fragrance? You're so right...it turned into a WOW rose!!

Kristine - I love your Bolero!! And it looks like the pink rose in the picture is another WOW rose. :)

Tina - I have a John Davis in the front raised flower bed...and I do nothing with it...and it's covered with sawfly larvae holes. I just let them go to to on it. I'm not a very good gardener in the front yard. Anyway...the front bed has JD, a peony and the rest is salvia. It doesn't seem to deter the sawflies here.

Maybe it's just Heritage that sawfly don't like. But, definitely, keep us posted!

Rosecanadian - I’d like a John Davis :) I need a hardy climber to replace my gaudy William Baffin. My WB is beside a downspout and gets INFESTED with sawfly larvae, but especially bad this year with the constant rain here. I’m reminded by Straw’s comment about sawfly thriving in moist soil. I’m curious, do you notice more or less sawfly at the base closer to the salvia? Or is it evenly distributed everywhere?

Also, what is your opinion about JD? Is it a boring rose or a WOW rose? How is the fragrance?

That's a good point, Tina. I think the holes are midpoint and higher. Interesting.

Sawflies...arrrrg! I have both Rose and Pear sawflies and they even get the strawberries...I only pick them off the roses and strawberries...If garlic will keep them away, I have tons! I use it to keep moles and voles out of flower beds, (sort of works) so it multiplies quickly. I will see if any of my salvia is the stinky kind. Coolest looking Allium is Shubertii like a small alien.

Strawchicago...I just received my Rouge Royal (along with a couple others) from RVR today...I love, love the smell of raspberries!!! I had been thinking of ordering from RVR for a while and when they had Rouge Royal in stock and my husband said he owed me flowers...I decided I wanted live ones!

Ann - you got RR!!! I'm jealous!! :) :)

Ann and Carol: Rouge Royal as own-root doesn't take much space, mine is 1 foot one-cane-wonder thanks to my zone 5 winter. Rouge Royal is perfect for Carol's pots. I really need to dig up the soil around Rouge Royal to add more Garden Lime (22% calcium and 12% magnesium). Rouge Royal is a WOW rose, amazing scent, but so tiny !! Rouge is on the left, and Barone de Rothschild is on the right. Both are WOW roses since they last long in the vase & smell fantastic:

Thank you straw and everyone for your photos and detailed info.

I used to participate regularly here on this forum years ago, and then got rid of a lot of my roses. I have a lot of shade and I had a lot of jobs and no time and so I gave up on roses. I've found myself venturing over to this forum very hesitantly lol, lest I get sucked back in! But seriously I am thinking of adding a rose or 12 back to my garden, and I really appreciate some of the honest descriptions here (as well as the laughs - sitting here alone laughing out loud at some of them!). I know some of it is subjective, some depends on the zone or even the particular garden, but it's a starting point.

Your photos are all gorgeous and Tina your garden is absolutely lovely! Thank you all for sharing!

:)

Dee

Edited to say, I meant to thank Straw (and everyone who participated) for ALL the posts you've had recently, not just this one - so very much great info! Own root, roses for the vase, roses for your climate, in ground vs. in pot, etc. THANK YOU!!

Straw - I really love the look of RR's flowers!!! Your are gorgeous!!! :) :)

Dee - Sure, we all do what makes the best sense for us at the right times. :) :) If you're dipping your toe into these fun threads, then maybe it's time to try again. :) :) <3 Welcome back!!! :) :)

Thank you rosecanadian!

<3

Dee

Just want to weigh in with a rose that made me say, ”Wow.” Lavender Crush is in its second year. Not

a profuse bloomer,but when it does —

And the fragrance! i’m kicking myself now for putting it at the back, against the wall.

Ooooh!!! What a BEAUTIFUL bloom!!!! I love the color and the stippling on the petals!! WOW!!

Sylvia.....I'm often crawling over other plants to sniff blooms!!!

After reading more how Rouge Royal likes heat (and we don't have any) and is small, I decide I better buy a niceish looking pot so it can go in front of the south facing garage on the concrete. Thank heavens for Walmart's pots...by husband frowns over a $30 pots for a $22 rose, he thinks the rose should cost more than the pot....maybe I need to buy Heirloom Rose roses so I can get more expensive pots!!! (Don't get the wrong idea, I'm the cheap one and figure what I save on pots could buy more roses.)