Here is Abe, and Jude

Jude turning pink in cooler weather, and last is my Peace rose.

I think that sounds like a great idea! I've had great success with fish pond weed and banana peels, mixed with charcoal chunks, for my roses. I bet the shells would add minerals too. My only thought would be that seaweed from the ocean would be really salty so I would rinse it well and only use small amounts til you have experimented with it a bit.

I love the colors you are getting from Abe and Jude too! My Abe turned apricot from the cold this week

Re. your Peace's brown leaves: Alfalfa can be quite acidic as it decomposes so maybe Peace has fertilizer burn???

It looks like the folks at the Container Gardening forum are not going to see this. So they won’t read about your plan for the stuff to decompose in situ.

Thanks @rifis (zone 6b-7a NJ) ! I forgot to post to the other forums. Just tried to add to container gardening.

@joeywyomingzone4 Thanks for the tips Joey! Definitely going to rinse down all the stuff I found at the beach before adding them to the top of my pots. Charcoal is interesting.....do the roses seem to like that with the pond weed and banana peels? I love the color of your Abe. Mine's staying in the pinker range but I've seen some nice orange/yellow tint at it's center a few times. Hopefully she'll turn apricot/orange like yours at some point

If you can search the forum there is a thread on biochar and its benefits, lots of useful information there. It's worked really well for me thus far.

Thanks @joeywyomingzone4 will look that up. Do you put your weed/biochar/banana mix on potted roses, or are they in the ground? Also, not sure with Peace Rose....I haven't given it alfalfa yet, just a couple diluted waterings with Neptunes fish/seaweed. She wasn't in best of shape when I found her but her leaves seem even more brown now. Will be patient and see if new growth looks any better.

I mostly use it in pots although have amended raised bed soil with it too. I've tried both surface mulching and drying/crumbling/working in the pond weed as well as soaking it with alfalfa cubes and just using the liquid and they all work just at different speeds. If you have a mint plant, handfuls of chopped mint soaked in water for 12-18 hours will extract the growth hormone without fermenting it and that water makes an excellent quick-boost-without-burning.

The bananas go in separately, we eat a lot in our house so I just save all the peels and put them in the pots turn about as I have them. For smaller pots I'll dice the peels into half inch chunks to make them easier to work in but for my big 20 gallon pots I'll just shove the whole peel under the surface of the dirt.

The charcoal also goes in separately, I mix handfuls in when I fill the pot for planting so it helps to keep the soil aerated and then just top with a bit before winter.

@joeywyomingzone4 Thanks for the tips. I was debating whether putting the peels directly in the pot's top soil layer would help without worms in the pots. I am going to go to my local tackle place and see if they have some worms to add to the pots. These pots are about 15 gallon I think. I used to do the mint trick after Straw taught me about it. Worked well but that was when I had mint in my big gardens back east. But it was such a nice tea to make for them (compared to the smelly alfafa ha). Don't have mint anymore since everything's in a pot here at my new place.

I will try to find some charcoal too. Do you just use leftover charcoal from a bonfire/fireplace? Hope you're enjoying the smell of your Abe's blooms. I cut some more of Jude's blooms today and wish I could bottle the smell it's so refreshing.

I use charcoal from bonfires and also from the barbecue, but with the ash shaken off a bit so that it doesn't affect the pH too much. I can always add in the potash later if I feel like the individual rose needs it (Love is one that needs extra boosts of molasses and potash, and so is Sir Thomas Lipton).

BC - lovely JtO blooms!!! Such beautiful blooms!!!

Great Joey, thanks for the info. I think I remember @strawchicago z5 writing some great info on biochar and potash....I have to search the forum for it this weekend.

@rosecanadian Thank you!:) I really like this plant so far. I had wanted to grow it since getting into roses a couple of years ago but never found it back on the east coast. Same with Abe. They're both have such fragrant beautiful blooms, I'm really enjoying them so far.

That makes me happy to hear that you find some enjoyment out of these two roses!! :) :)

Thanks @rosecanadian :) I miss having a bigger yard, but will try my hand at growing in pots.

@joeywyomingzone4 Do you think I should add worms to my pots if I'm going to be adding seaweed and bananas to the top of the soil? Or will they break down without worms for the roses?

You could sure add worms, I don't think it will hurt at all. If you have any gardens in-ground you could get a shovelful of dirt and toss it in the pot with the potting soil, you might be surprised at how many worms you end up with later even if you don't see them going in. I don't know all the scientific details behind it but I have always added a bit of garden dirt to my potting soil to get a vigorous microbiome going and it seems to work pretty well, all my larger pots have thriving worm populations.

I would have posted about 1) the inadvisability of adding raw (non-composted) ingredients to any containerized plants (as subtly referred to by rifis above) and 2) the hazards of using garden soil or compost in any container potting media. You will find both of these strongly discouraged by any reliable container gardening source, as would be the notion of deliberately including worms to the mix.

But rose aficionados seem have a different viewpoint on how to care for their containerized plants.....as they do with those planted in the ground. Most seem to ignore standard horticultural practices. Roses are not nearly as demanding or as tricky to grow as they seem to believe. They are just another type of flowering shrub and can be treated just like any other shrub. No need to jump through any specialized hoops!!

I guess I should add a clarification on my methods, I garden on a pretty strict budget so the more I can recycle, reuse, or find less expensive options, the more roses I can grow. I also will say straight up that my location is pretty unusual and what works for me might not work for other locations.

Totally agree with you that roses aren't that difficult to grow! They are fun too :)

@gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9) Thanks for your tips. I've only grown roses for a couple years, and all in ground at my previous house. Would you be able to explain a bit more on the points you mentioned? The easier it all can be, the better. I re-potted all of mine in large plastic containers with lots of drainage holes and used Fox Farm Ocean Forest Potting Soil for them. I've only given them Neptunes fish/seaweed liquid fertilizer every other watering or so. They seem happy.

The 3 non Austin roses I have (Marc Chagall, Princess Charlene de Monaco, and Peace) all have small issues with their leaves. Marc has slight brown edges to leaves, Charlene's are kind of curled/crinkled edges, and Peace is basically a rusty mess I moved away from the others). Guessing they each need different things in their soil based on whatever type they are. Still deciding what I'll keep or gift away. I don't want any plants I have to fuss over.

@joeywyomingzone4 No worries, we all have our own methods! I also enjoy trying to reuse and recycle all my veggie/fruit scraps. Having access to lots of washed up seaweed is nice too. I have a lot to learn about growing them in containers. I've only grown succulents/cacti in containers, and those were all almost pure grit, with very little water. Opposite to rose care :)

@Bc _zone10b, there is a huge difference between inground gardening and gardening in containers and the rules or practices of the first rarely apply to the second :-)

Most recommended potting soils for long term container gardening are formulated to ensure fast drainage, moderate water retention and adequate aeration over an extended period of time.....those are the three critical elements of container gardening. These mixes are frequently referred to as soil-less mixes as they contain no actual soil but very slow to breakdown ingredients like bark fines, composted forest products (often the same thing), perlite or pumice, and a minimal amount of sphagnum peat moss. The Fox Farms is a decent choice for this purpose!

Using dry/granular organic fertilizers or fresh (uncomposted) kitchen scraps are seldom effective with container gardening because they require the activities of high populations of soil organisms to convert these items into a plant accessible form and those high and diverse populations are just not present outside of inground garden soil. The results will be very hit or miss and often take an extended period of time to develop....frequently well beyond a single growing season.

Liquid organics are better but rarely contain a full range of required plant nutrients. That is why most container gardening websites will encourage you to use a full range synthetic fertilizer for optimum results. The plants don't care how their nutrients are sourced - organic or synthetic - they just need what they need when they need it and synthetics are best at that.

"Guessing they each need different things in their soil based on whatever type they are"

This is really a false assumption. Any type of rose will grow well in the same soil media as any other, provided all other care conditions are met. Watering irregularities/compromised drainage, fertilizing practices and disease resistance will all play a role. I'd take a hunch that your choice of fertilizer is not the best :-)

The Container Gardening forum has some excellent and very long running posts on how maximize container gardening performance that addresses all of these factors with soil media, watering practices and fertilization leading the pack. Anything written by tapla/Al or any comments he makes with respect to successful container gardening should be given serious consideration. He is a recognized and published authority on this subject and his advice is always spot on.

Thanks @gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9) . All makes sense. I found his profile and followed. Read some of his posts already and they sound good. Remind me of a lot of experiments I did with my indoor houseplants a few years ago. Most of them were desert plants that needed high heat and I was constantly having problems with root rot in any kind of potting soil I bought or even made with added grit. Then I tried growing all of them under giant grow lights, on giant heat pads in nothing but pure pumice. I wanted damp airy conditions and warm roots after reading similar articles as Al writes.

I only gave them a light liquid cacti fertilizer and they were all in tall clear plastic containers with no drainage at all. I would keep the containers half full with water, on heat pad and the plants all grew remarkably well.

I would measure the temp in each container and make sure it never went above 80f or so from what I remember. Anyways, they all grew giant healthy roots reaching through the chunks of pumice towards the water table at the bottom, and all of their top growth was the healthiest I’d ever achieved. Same with their flowering.

I had to sterilize them all before doing this, so that no soil or bacteria from their previous pots were transplanted into this hydro system. But once I realized to do this, they really took off.

I wish I could try that with a rose. Maybe they would survive in damp, pure pumice/grit without drainage if I could keep the pot warm enough. Not sure their root temp needs.

Before with my indoor setup, I was back on the east coast. That’s why I had them all indoors under big lights and on big heat mats.

Here at my new place, it rarely gets below 50F or above 80F...so I'm not even sure when to slow down with feeding the roses, if ever.

I probably should have added some bigger bark pieces to the fox farm soil with these roses. I just didn’t want to have to end up having to water the roses too much here if their mix was too gritty/large since I’m now in zone 10 where it stays pretty warm.

Will keep reading up on this and maybe figure out a way to try my previous experiment with a rose. Thanks again.

*Also, any thoughts on fertilizers? I've been trying find old posts on container growing on this rose forum and people seem to like Osmocote Plus, and/or this below I think. Open to any suggestions

https://www.millsmix.com/product/mills-easyfeed-liquid-concentrate/

Osmocote Plus is not bad as it is very close to a full range fertilizer, meaning it provides ALL (or almost all) of the nutrients required for healthy plant growth. But it is slow release. I tend to use that on most of my containerized trees and shrubs. Believe it or not, regular Miracle Gro all purpose blue powder is also a good choice. The nutes either of them lack (calcium with one; magnesium for the other) are micronutrients used in very tiny quantities and can be addressed separately if necessary.

The one fertilizer recommended wholeheartedly for just about any containerized plant, indoors or out, is Dyna Gro's Foliage Pro. It contains everything required with no additions necessary.

One of the key aspects of any of these is that they offer the primary plant nutrients in the 3:1:2 ratio that all plants absorb them at - 3 times as much N as P and 2/3 the K. There is no need to make any additions or alterations depending on bloom cycle or fruiting. The same fert can be used at any time of the growing season without need for marketing scams like bloom boosters, etc.

The mills mix is a hybrid between synthetic and organically sourced nutrients, which would never be my first choice for any containers. The NPK ratio is also off as well.

Thanks @gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9). I am going to try some DynaGro Foliage Pro. Do you use this on your roses too? Assuming it's not just for spraying the leaves?

I like the idea of having one good fertilizer that's safe to use any time in the growing season.

I wonder if I should repot the roses and add more bark chunks or larger pieces for air, so it's not just the fox farms ocean potting soil. Do you have a preference for your roses's potting soil?

Doing a little digging on google I found this old thread on a forum on aquaponics with roses......not sure it would stay warm enough here to try hydro or aquaponics outdoors . I might try with a small rose....but might get too cold outdoors for roots. Not sure, but I liked seeing this setup in Hawaii

https://www.diyaquaponics.com/forum/showthread.php?589-growing-roses-in-aquaponics/page2

Thanks again.

I use premixed potting mix and Osmocote Plus fertilizer (every 6 months) in pots, according to directions or less. I've never had a disaster with this approach. I just need to water with my well water in my case.

I think the plants benefit from this steady approach. I don't worry about stopping fertilizer for Winter because they do not put out new growth during the Winter anyway.

My container mix is the same for everything I grow except for cacti and succulents. It is the 5-1-1 mix referred to frequently on the Container Gardening forum: 5 parts composted bark fines, 1 part peat moss and 1 part perlite. The Ocean Forest is not bad...could use more bark and has some unnecessary additives but they do not offset the good drainage and aeration properties, so all in all, a pretty decent container mix.

And despite the name, Foliage Pro is not applied to just foliage :-) It is a regular liquid fertilizer that you dilute according to directions and water into the soil. And it is used with a routine frequency - weekly or monthly during the entire growing season in most cases. Plants take in very few nutrients via their foliage compared to the roots so foliar feeding is relatively non-productive anyway.

Just an FYI but both the Fox Farms potting mix and the Dyna Gro fert were developed in response to the commercial cannabis market. This is a highly lucrative cash crop (now legal in many areas), typically grown in containers and cultivated for maximum production in the shortest period of time. A lot of study, trialing and experimentation have gone into these products and they tend to be pretty high quality.

Thanks for this info @gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9). I'll give the Dynapro a shot and see how the roses like it. Glad it's not just for foliage since I don't like spraying anything with my two dogs around the plants. Still have to figure out if the roses should be watered all year here (just moved here to 10b) or if they'll go dormant during winter months. I think it said the lowest we get here is around 45-50F.

@Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR Thanks for the info on your approach. I hope my roses don't mind the premixed soil. Sounds like they should do well enough in it like gardengal said. Interesting about fertilizing during winter too....I have to figure that all out here with watering/fertilizing during winter months. Much different than winter months at my previous place in zone 5.

Appreciate hearing everyone's different approaches and preferences. Especially since I am new to this warmer climate and haven't grown roses in pots before.

Just a note: There is a Tacoma, WA rose exhibitor and breeder that grows in contianers only, Uses dirt 30% and potting soil. Adds sea minerals. Does all the stuff people say not to do here on this thread and wins at Portland Rose shows, including some of his own bred roses.....while it may not work for everyone...it sure works for him

Ann - really good to hear!! My roses did terrible in the 5-1-1...and they love a richer soil. :)

Another thing: is that although we have a super rainy fall to spring, we get NO rain from July to Setember...so soil helps with both drainage and water retention as long as it is not clay based. (Ours is sandy loamy with 40% rocks)

Ann, great to hear. I think I've only grown one rose in a pot once, years ago. I don't know if it was a knockout or something, but pink rose I randomly bought at a nursery and stuck in a big pot with the cheapest potting soil and a bunch of cans (for drainage and airflow). I was drinking a lot of seltzer back then and would use my cans in all my pots around my yard to recycle them and not have to deal with perlite dust.

Anyways, that was a while ago but that rose lasted two seasons in it's pot and never stopped flowering or looking good (except winter when she would look dead and then spring back to life). I don't even know if I fertilized her. Doubtful since I was still very new to plants. But she did well with me ignoring her and then made it into the ground in one of my gardens because I liked her so much :)

@gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9) I found some Dyna-Gro Foliage Pro at a nearby hydro store. Do you have any tips on how to use with watering my roses in pots (in the fox farms ocean potting soil) ? I usually water every other day if it's above 75 or less if it's been cooler the last few weeks. Should I just go about drenching like Al suggested in some of his posts and do a super weak percentage watering with the Foliage Pro after drenching them all?

Thanks for any help. Hopefully they'll like it and can just stick with the FP as one fertilizer for everything from now on.

You can cut back or even eliminate any fertilizing during the winter months. The roses don't really need it as they will not be active growth at this time of year. Pretty much the same principle as backing off on fertilization during the winter for any houseplants :-) Won't be efficiently utilized and really is just a waste of product.

If you feel you must, go by the monthly recommendation or at the very most, a bi-weekly application.

If they were my plants, I wouldn't give any ferts until February or March.

Bc _zone10b When I lived in San Diego the roses were still growing into Dec. That is where you are going to have to use your best judgement, if they are growing and will not freeze, maybe fertilize. You might google and find out what rose growers around you area do or even Florida. I do know one rose grower near LA defoliates her roses to give them a winter rest, but more like Dec. or Jan. Then she feeds them mid-late Feb when it starts pushing new growth.

Good idea Nose, I just recieved a pretty runty pitiful rose. I will make a brew this weekend and see if I can get it to a nice strong rose.

BC - Just a note to say I read through your thread, and I agree with the advice Pam (Gardengal) offered. The only thing I might add is, when growing in containers the most important quality your grow medium can have is good structure and the ability to maintain that structure for the interval between repots, repotting being more involved than potting up as it includes bare-rooting, root pruning, and a change of grow medium. Whereas in gardens and beds it works well to 'feed the soil' and let the soil feed the plant, that strategy in containers can be counter-productive as it leads to early collapse of the grow medium's structure. It's better that the grower shoulders responsibility for providing the plant's nutrition, and the fertilizer she mentioned (Foliage-Pro 9-3-6) is a complete nutritional supplementation program from a single source. Unlike many/most soluble synthetic fertilizers, it contains both Ca and Mg in soluble form, and it derives 2/3 of its nitrogen from nitrate sources, the rest being in ammoniacal form - no urea.

Good luck!

Al

@tapla (mid-Michigan, USDA z5b-6a) - good points, thank you.

Also a word of warning about using the tea I mentioned above. When I used it on my mature plants that were in pots, they suddenly shot out long octopus/climber canes, rather than staying compact. I don't like the result of that. Used on plants in the ground, they don't seem to have responded at all.

See what happened to Desdemona.