I have this rose too and really enjoy it. The fragrance is one of my favorites and find the plant to be very disease resistant. Now that I think of it, I actually have 2 plants. The first I received from DA showed symptoms of RMV very quickly, so I requested a replacement. The 2nd one turned out to also have RMV. I have them planted side by side. I kept both because I figured DA would be dropping it soon, but really wish I could have it grafted and not virused, but what can you do.

How beautiful! I didn't know this rose is such a close match for Jude. I grow Wollerton Old Hall as a Jude substitute, but I'm happy to know there's one in shrub form. I like the fat, round buds, too. Fingers crossed DA offers it a while longer. It also looks like a better Desdemona. My Des has been a little underwhelming.

Your Windermere is a lovely thing, and the first photo is a twin in color to my Jude, which isn't yellow. I consider Jude to be cream like Windermere. You might give Jude another chance; he is slow out of the starting gate, but once Jude gets going, you don't have to worry about growth or bloom. I would think in your hot and dry climate, your Jude would have a similar color to mine. Maybe in milder climates Jude is more yellow. Diane

@flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA - I've been having my issues with Desdemona also. Although I am happy that it grows, blooms and is beautifully fragrant, the flowers are so small, and some open pink and others open white and I don't really like that look. It's not an "incredibly gorgeous" rose to my eye.

@Diane Brakefield - When I grew Jude, the flowers opened amber yellow at times, and other times more like yours. I did think it was beautiful even though the color didn't always go with the color scheme of the garden, and I would have kept him if he produced more than one or two flowers a year (not flushes, flowers). After a few years, I gave up. But I do miss him and would consider trying again if a space opens up.

Nose, I'm sorry to read that. I don't think mine has ever had a bloom as dark as the first one you show. What would make that much difference in the color? Lots of things, I suppose. I'm baffled at your Jude's stingy blooming, too. Roses are such a puzzle most of the time. Diane

Your Windermere is gorgeous @noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque) I'm glad you shared with us!

Wow, such beautiful plants, Sheila! I’ve always loved the look of Cressida. It’s another one that’s now impossible to find.

I got mine from Hortico, Noseometer and I do love her. I also got St. Cecilia with her from Hortico too. They are so fragrant too.

Cool, thanks! I’ll check it out!

Sheila, what glorious photos of Cressida, one I'd forgotten about. I'd grab one if I ever see it, but that's not likely. St. Cecilia is only a year old, but already 4' and almost a constant bloomer.

Since Jude is up for removal I'm going to share the 2 photos I have of him. I tried to convince myself one or two good clusters every other year or so is enough, but there are so many other roses I could put in his place that would bloom so much more.

Last year

Four or five years ago. Nothing in between, except 1 cluster early this year, 2021.

The plant is sparsely foliated, so no great beauty there. Bye, bye, Jude.

Flowers, your photos are lovely. It can be such a mystery why your Jude is acting that way.

Thanks, Sheila. When he's good, he's really something special.

Flowers those are truly beautiful. I am in awe.

Flowers, though those photos show the great beauty your Jude is capable of, I don't think it would be enough for me to keep on with Jude over such a long course of unproductive time. Don't feel guilty about removing him--said the person who needs a support group every time I remove a rose. My lack of space often makes the decision for me. You grow many gorgeous roses, you'll do fine and be happy without Jude. Diane

Adios Jude

Flowers, who gets Judes ex home ?

Kristine wants him. Diane

Sheila, Tina and Diane, thank you! I agree Jude is an exquisite rose and I would give anything to grow him to his full potential.

Kristine, Jude's old home could really go to anybody. That bed is a small, mixed bag. it's oval and anchored by Ispahan on one end and an Eden arbor at the other end, then there's Tess of the d'urbervilles, Watercolors, Cinderella with Blue Paradise Phlox between the roses. Tchaikovsky would match the height of the others. It needs to be a vigorous one since the entire bed is filled with roots from the tall pine supporting Ispahan.

When you come pick up Peppermint Pop, please take Jude, too.

My goodness!!! Such beauty!!!

Flowers - those Jude blooms are to die for!!!

Sheila - incredible!!!

Hi @noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque) how tall is Windermere for you? i have her coming this spring. I’m considering adding her to my raised bed btw batsheba and Claire (my cream/yellow rose bed). This is a prime spot, so she needs to be a good bloomer as well 🤣

@flowersaremusic z5 Eastern WA and @noseometer...(7A, SZ10, Albuquerque) he are the conditions of your Judges? i heard he needs lots of water to bloom well. are they in full sun? part shade? did ut get lots of water? was it planted straight in the soil or was in a pot first? i also have him coming, I’m thinking of giving him some time in the pot or raised bed to see if makes a difference. like you guys I dont have space for weak bloomers

Windermere is still a baby in my pot ghetto, so I couldn’t tell you how big he gets. maybe others can tell you?

Ceres, I think Jude will do great in your climate. I'm sure mine got enough water - more than any other rose I have. He's in dappled sun because of the many pines. He was planted in the soil, without potting up first. Northland recommends doing that, but I think potting him up first would be just fine. Due to time constraints, mine is still there, so I have to make the hard decision soon. For some reason, I'm attached to him.