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Central A/C Condenser Issue - Fan Blades not Spinning at Startup

4 years ago

For my only 2 year old central a/c unit (Reem, 5 ton), I happened to be outsides recently and noticed that the condenser unit was making a consistently loud noise -- that louder hum noise that usually happens only at startup before it settles into a more muted hum. I checked it out, and the fan blades weren't running, and a lot of heat was being generated too.


For days, this issue persisted, although only some of the time. Other times if I turned it off, and especially turned off circuit breaker, and it would come on ok. Worried about burning out the motor when the blades don't spin, I would constantly monitor it and only turn it on manually to make sure it turned ok correctly. After a few days of that, I have now had 1.5 days of it working without any issue. I've even put it back to automatic and am not monitoring it constantly. But I'm still worried it might start being an issue again, which may not be good for the unit/motor?


I did open up the panel to look at the capacitor (photos below), which I thought might be the issue based on some online research. However, it didn't look bulging which would be indicative of an issue, just rusted on top, and 2 years seems premature for a capacitor issue. Also, I tried the trick of trying to give the fan blades a kick with a stick to get going at startup (if it's truly a capacitor issue) but was never able to get that to work (either due to technique, or because it wasn't a capacitor issue).


Any theories?


Now that it seems to working again, is it a big risk if I just forget about it and don't catch the issue right away if it returns again? (i.e. motor burnout?)


I called the installing contractor, but they won't give me any advice unless they come out to look at it (and pay their hourly fee), which seems unnecessary now that it's working again. Reem doesn't provide technical support over the phone.


Thanks!






Comments (31)

  • 4 years ago

    Capacitor needs to be checked for proper microfarads. Just because it visually looks good doesn’t mean it is. Voltage needs to be checked as well. The condenser fan motor could also have an issue causing the capacitor to fail. Have an hvac tech check it out.

    Tyler thanked Andrew
  • 4 years ago

    You can buy a new capacitor from Amazon for $10. Why not just replace it?

    Tyler thanked wdccruise
  • 4 years ago

    Somewhat nervous about getting electrocuted, since the capacitor will have a charge even with circuit breaker turned off

  • 4 years ago

    Sounds like a bad fan motor. Did you check voltage to the motor?

  • 4 years ago

    I don't know how to check the voltage. I guess what I'm trying to get a sense of is whether 1) it's ok to leave as is since the problem hasn't arisen the past couple of days, and 2) what it may mean for it to have this problem for a few days but then apparently go away and work fine again...

  • 4 years ago

    Have the unit checked out if you are unsure. You could be causing more damage hoping that the unit just suddenly started working properly. Please answer Stax about where you live. You should not be running cooling if you are currently in a cold climate.

  • 4 years ago

    Hawaii, so heating is not applicable :-) Sorry, I forgot that it's a weird time of year to be asking about a/c. I set the a/c at 75-78 and never really turn it off. It's a little cooler this time of year (65-80), so if anything it runs a little less these days. ($25/month electric bill, since rooftop solar is owned, with net metering)

  • 4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    it's ok to leave as is since the problem hasn't arisen the past couple of days

    Best case is that one day the AC does not start up and you have to wait for a service tech to arrive. Worst case continuing to run the AC is causing additional damage. Failing components may cause a high current surge somewhere in the condenser. A single one component repair could become multiple components and expensive. HVAC problems only get worse over time.

    what it may mean for it to have this problem for a few days but then apparently go away and work fine again...

    It is intermittent problem most like caused by a weak start capacitor. We can all remotely guess what is going on. A competent tech should be able to figure this out once he is on site.

    The capacitor seems very rusty given that it is only two years old. I would have expected it to look much better. I suppose this is the quality of components used in some equipment.

    What is the brand and model of this condenser? You should have a 5 year parts warranty if you are the original owner. Most installers give a one year labor warranty. If original installer does the repair, maybe he will give you a break on the labor charge.

    Tyler thanked mike_home
  • 4 years ago

    FYI, I got a contractor out here, and after examining/testing for over a hour, they concluded it was the high pressure switch that needed to be replaced. Good thing I didn't replace the capacitor!


    They said it will take them 2.5 hours for 2 people to do the labor (part should be covered by warranty), so I'm going to try to get another quote before proceeding. Fortunately they waived their diagnosis fee, which I negotiated before they came out.

  • 4 years ago

    They weren't able to repair it during their initial visit. They haven't given me their labor rate yet. I'm going to get one other quote, but I will use them if they give me a competitive price, even if it's not the absolute lowest.

  • 4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Which came first, the chicken or the egg. A HP switch tripping can be caused by a host of things, including a faulty condenser fan (your original concern)! Most Rheem models have a reset switch right there on the condenser. Did you (or they) reset the switch and did the condenser work after that?

    Edit: Check out this video:

    https://youtu.be/txErJ_QNV88

    Now, your situation may be a little different, but changing out a switch shouldn't take 2 guys 2+ hours.


    Tyler thanked sktn77a
  • 4 years ago

    Jeez, the technician changed the switch in eight minutes and can buy replacements on Amazon for $40.

  • 4 years ago

    Considering the technician was here, with his apprentice, for 1.5 hours diagnosing the condenser problem, I am inclined to trust his conclusion, which, like many other technicians, he explained to me in excruciating unnecessary detail that went way over my head. Before he left, since it would take a few days to get the new HP switch part and come back to install, he did hardwire the system to override the HP switch (he implied less efficient systems are setup this way), with the main downsides being it's less efficient and it's louder. But otherwise, cooling the house generally works (so I can just set the temp and leave it), so I'm hoping he is correct and it's just the one faulty switch part.

  • PRO
    4 years ago

    Now, your situation may be a little different, but changing out a switch shouldn't take 2 guys 2+ hours.


    This is true of the time it actually takes you to do the work. But you have the time it takes you to drive there and back first time. You have the time it takes you to the parts house. You have the time it takes you to drive back to job, the probably 20-30 min. of time it takes you to actually do the job.


    Let's not forget: the manager who runs the company, the dispatcher, the accountant who does the books who is going to pay them. It doesn't take 5 people to run an HVAC company. True as well. I am one such company... but I do the work of 5 people. If you did the work of 5 people what would you want. Yeah people don't want to talk about that. It's not about what you can do, it's about how much I can get for nothing. Ask Venezuela how well socialism works. LOL > big laughs.


    There are companies who: won't pay techs drive time. They will only pay time on the actual job. Then you see the signs on the back of the truck "Hiring Techs".


    You wouldn't do this job, but you expect others to? And actually be good at it for nothing?


    These are the kinds of jobs I would pass on 9 times out of 10. In terms of whether it's only the pressure switch or not as the problem? It's not worth speculating over. (I only posted here to give some realism to this thread, why you can't find good techs why the industry has gone to what it is now.)


    Time is worth more than money, but people make this error in judgement more than you would think.


    Welcome to Fantasy Island, where time grows on trees. So the company spent 3 man hours thus far for nothing or next to nothing? If that same company does this regularly, they won't be around for long. Especially in Hawaii where everything is expensive.

  • 4 years ago

    It seems the going rate here is $120-200/hr, with contractors often not available for days or weeks away, so I think the HVAC companies are doing fine here. My challenge is getting transparent pricing before committing to a company/path/solution, since in a true capitalist market (since you brought up socialism) that is how it is supposed to work.


    Unfortunately, it's very challenging getting pricing. Few companies will provide a quote, none will provide any pricing on their website (even their hourly rate), and some won't even provide a hourly rate but only a fixed price after they come and see the problem, and most will charge you for the initial consultation, in which case you are mostly at their mercy as already invested in them and are vulnerable to gouging. I've heard some cases of rip-off and disgruntled customers.


    I dread going through this process every time I need a contractor (not just HVAC, but plumber, car mechanic, etc.), and is partially why I try the DIY path first. I wish there were more consumer-friendly apps to streamline/simplify this process -- finding a quality contractor with clear/transparent pricing and easily schedule appointments / communicate throughout the process. Kind of like airbnb for home services/contracting. Houzz's tool wasn't very helpful, perhaps because it's less mature/used here in Hawaii. I hope it's only a matter of time that an online app solves this pain point; I know there are a lot out there trying but I'm not sure how many have truly taken off yet. Perhaps it will also help the contractor be more efficient too with less overhead.

  • 4 years ago

    "perhaps because it's less mature/used here in Hawaii."

    Ah, that changes everything! You're gonna pay through the node for everything there!

  • 4 years ago

    It took 1.5 hours to diagnose a bad high pressure switch? It seems a little unusual a pressure switch would fail after two year. I hope it is actually the a faulty switch and not a intermittent high pressure situation and the switch it operating correctly.

    Tyler thanked mike_home
  • PRO
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    With contractors often not available for days or weeks away, so I think the HVAC companies are doing fine here.

    Unfortunately, it's very challenging getting pricing. Few companies will provide a quote, none will provide any pricing on their website (even their hourly rate), and some won't even provide a hourly rate but only a fixed price after they come and see the problem, and most will charge you for the initial consultation.

    HVAC companies are looking for customers, not shoppers. It's more important, much more productive if the repair is done right and you're not paying a parts changer. (In other words they have the knowledge required to do the job.)

    prices are dynamic, can and do change due to a number of factors. What do you do for a living out in Hawaii? As the same metric can be applied to you - "You must be doing quite well."

    The HVAC contractor living in an HCOLA in paradise more or less, has more expenses than you do living there. Those expenses are more than just the part cost. They are providing service to your front door, aren't they? (not just a part)

    Unbillable hours in HVAC just as in any service business, is the silent killer to any service business. You are the one paying them to exist. A service is much like comfort -- there are no two people alike when it comes to these things. Some will spend hours and hours trying to save $5. That's time you're not getting back. (Is time free?)

    So you search and search... but this is the death knell of non-productivity. Because advertising costs $$$. If a company is advertising low prices, it is mostly a gimmick, bait n switch scheme. It has to be to pay for the advertising in which you found them. Expenses remember?

    Capitalism 101: Let's advertise free stuff and then when we get inside the front door turn it into a high pressure sales presentation. It has to be done this way to "pay for the free stuff" they are giving you + the advertising that led you to them.

    So you can understand why I don't participate in that. I know I've been there. Free is not what you think it is when it comes to HVAC. --- it's used to get you to open your door and your wallet. As in high pressure sales.

    You are paying for service, either with time or money (sometimes both - which is even worse). If you don't like the service, find one you do like. Money or cost? You will never truly win that argument with HVAC. The moment you think you have your system will have some new problem. If the service you like can fix it? That's the only real reason to use them... not money.

  • 4 years ago

    So technician got back and quoted me $800 to replace the high pressure switch and also now the fan motor. He never mentioned the fan motor needed to be replaced when he was here and we spoke extensively about the issue after spending almost 2 hours diagnosing (and setting up a temporary fix of bypassing the pressure switch). He is now saying it is a good idea to replace the fan motor, although otherwise he can just do the switch for around $500. After spending ~$8000 to install this central a/c unit only 2 years ago, I'm disappointed to be facing such a large bill again.


    Needless to say, I'm shopping around, but it's difficult to do so when you then have to start the process over again, with a diagnosis appointment (time and money).


    This is why I was dreading this process, and why I turned to online forums to navigate the process and possibly see what I can do myself. (thankfully I didn't proceed with replacing the capacitor, though, since it doesn't appear it was that)

  • 4 years ago

    He is now saying it is a good idea to replace the fan motor, although otherwise he can just do the switch for around $500.

    I would have no confidence this tech has determined the root cause of the problem. To say it is a good idea to replace a motor fan in this situation makes no sense to me.

    Tyler thanked mike_home
  • 4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    $500 for a switch and only $300 extra for the fan motor? Something is off there. Maybe i missed it but if the unit was installed 2 years ago, don’t you have a warranty?

  • 4 years ago

    Well, about $500 each, but said was discounting by $300 total. Just for labor. Parts covered under warranty.

  • PRO
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    $500 for a switch and only $300 extra for the fan motor? Something is off there. Maybe i missed it but if the unit was installed 2 years ago, don’t you have a warranty?

    He lives in an HCOLA, so the company quoting him that originally came out is now trying to be compensated for the original "call out fees + part" (if I had to guess, that he originally negotiated or so he thinks.) while the part costs nothing, there is the cost of picking it up, going back exchanging defective part. He has a part warranty.


    The distributor isn't just going to hand someone a part because they say this or that. They will charge you for the part until you fill out paperwork + part to get reimbursed for it. That is more time that you're paying the tech to perform. Labor remember?


    BUT, labor especially in an HCOLA is the most costly part to the operation. In HVAC, typically you have the tech labor, also dispatch, + manager. If the tech has a helper? The accountant that does the books. That makes 5 people you are paying to do the job in an HCOLA area.

    Unless you find someone like me... but then I am doing the work of 5 people. My advertising budget is bupkiss. You don't rob Peter to pay Paul, 9 times out of 10 a big ad budget makes this even worse, not better.

    I service the Katy, Texas area (free ad, except for my time to chime in.)

  • 4 years ago

    Sounds like he doesn't know and he's learning on your dime.

    This sentence sums it up nicely. Whether the labor charge is $300, $500, or $800, it does not matter if it is not the correct repair. You need to bring in a competent HVAC company to fix the AC condenser.

  • 4 years ago

    Have a different company coming today. Seem solidly reviewed online, but haven't talked to technician yet. Crossing my fingers it goes smoothly. Diagnosis this time is not free, so hoping I can count on these guys to see it through and get it done. They charge by the hour, which I think I'm more comfortable at this point versus fixed price (which seems too open for price gouging, especially once you've already invested time & money in a company to do the diagnosis).

  • 4 years ago

    Instead of having the new company spend time and your money diagnosing the problem, why not just have it replace the high-pressure switch -- you could have it replace the capacitor too -- (the cost of which would be covered under warranty) which took eight minutes in the video above.

  • 4 years ago

    Well, to be a bit more precise, I had to twist arms for them to take the original diagnosis seriously, and they are coming with a new condenser fan motor and high pressure switch on hand, so if it's one or both of those issues they can in theory fix it in one visit. So not completely starting over again which is good. But most contractors were hesitant to come with any parts, which would be more inefficient with cost and also possibly delay the fix to another day.


    At this point I'm no longer thinking it's the capacitor since it doesn't look bulging, and the original technician did not think that was the problem...

  • 4 years ago

    It is nice that the new company is bringing a fan motor and a high pressure switch. I would be surprised if either of these is the cause of the problem. Did you give them a model number of the condenser so they can bring the correct replacement parts?

    A capacitor does not have to have a bulge in order to be out of the capacitance range. Most techs measure the capacitor value when it is disconnected. The better way is to measure it under load conditions. I wonder if the tech did this.

  • PRO
    4 years ago

    The problem with charge by the hour?


    The company or the tech rides the clock. It doesn't encourage anyone to get better at what they do... because if they get better, they make less. (residential)


    So maybe the company continually sheds techs (high turn over) --- which is the only way the company makes any money is for unskilled techs and how long it typically takes them to do things.


    Someone as skilled as I am would never charge by the hour: because I'd go broke. As long as I've been doing this? Longer than some of you have been alive.


    I know you want what's fair, so this is just to explain why it's not. Maybe they get right, but time and material companies tend to be commercial because they go to large expansive buildings outside of residential realm. So in those instances (in a commercial setting) it makes time and material pricing OK, because it takes longer on those kinds of properties and there is no one size fits all in the "commercial" realm.


    Commercial companies often lack the experience on residential, as commercial is mostly belt changes and filter changes. Not that they never have to trouble shoot, but the problems you see on larger equipment aren't the same as residential.

  • 4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Ok, finally concluded (hopefully) this painful process:

    - New contractor came out yesterday. Diagnosed the problem as just the fan motor not working. Fortunately, I had pushed for them to pick up that part before coming so they could do it same day, so he had it with him and replaced it. 2 hours total, ~$250 with tax. Pretty happy with final outcome, and I'll plan on using this contractor in future if needed, even though they didn't install my unit.

    - Disappointed with the first contractor that had come and had said it was the high pressure switch. He bypassed that and said I can continue to operate the system in the meantime, even though it became clear the fan still wasn't working. I tried to use it less, but I still put unnecessary wear & tear / risked damage to the system based on the first contractor saying I can run it without essentially a working fan. And then he came back and quoted $800 for high pressure switch and swapping fan motor too (but optional, even though he didn't mention that onsite).

    The original contractor was fixed price diagnostic fee and then fixed priced project fee. Fortunately, I had gotten them to waive the diagnostic fee prior to visiting. But you can see why I now don't like fixed price. If I have to sink money into a company diagnosing, I'm going to feel tied to stick with them, otherwise I have to waste time & money for another diagnosis, which is a major downside without a properly functioning a/c where time matters. And then I'm at the mercy of an arbitrary fixed price (with no comparison), where it seems a hourly contractor can only pad their hours so much.

    A better system would be bringing the HVAC contractor industry into the 21st century with an online marketplace or tools that allows for easy scheduling, transparent pricing, and accountability (reviews and protection from incorrect diagnosis). I'm sure that will come, if it's not already available in some areas, to solve this pain point for consumers. Too stressful and time consuming navigating this.


    Thanks everyone for chiming in, though, throughout...