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jason_carlton26

"Best" tree to sit under

This is totally unrelated to my other garden project!


My back yard has a cute little rock patio with Adirondack chairs, close to my goldfish pond. It's a nice little area, if a bit hot mid-day. My girlfriend and I like to sit there in the late afternoons of the Summer, drink a cream soda and read for a few hours :-)


The back yard has a slightly slope away from the house. The patio is facing the house, so while sitting the slope is behind me.


These are some dated pics, but you can get an idea of what I'm talking about. The pong is to the East:




And the rock patio is to the West:




I have a lofty goal of clearing out the wild trees behind the patio, moving the fence back, and then filling in the new 24x60' garden with some full sun trees, shrubs, and flowers.


Can you suggest a nice tree to go behind this patio? My requirements:


1. Long trunk so that I can comfortably walk under it


2. Fast growing, I don't want to be 80 years old before I can sit under it! LOL


3. In the 25' tall range when mature


4. It's close to the house, so strong roots and trunk


5. Preferably not fruit bearing or the fruit will drop and stain the chairs and patio


6. Pet friendly


7. Not particularly attractive to ants or other biting / stinging pests


8. Full sun / direct sun hardy



Preferred but not required:


A. Colorful


B. Evergreen


C. Pleasant smell



I was leaning towards a Weeping Cherry, but at a growth rate of 12" per year I'm not sure. And it might be a little TOO much "weep" to sit under? I'd like to be able to walk under it comfortably without having to swim through the hanging limbs to get to the chairs :-O


Pink dogwood, maybe? But still a slow growth rate...

Comments (25)

  • krnuttle
    2 years ago

    I am going to only comment on this part of your request: "clearing out the wild trees"


    I think you need to reconsider what you consider Wild Trees. Even the small areas that are kept "wild" can be a very attractive place in your yard. When we moved into this house the back area was an overgrown area with green briar, poison ivy, and other "wonderful" plants. The first to go was the green briar tangles and some of the grape vines. Next was the careful application of a poison ivy killer. I then cut off the dead limbs and selectivity removed and thinned the small trees. Today, I have a wooded area, with birds, squires and all sorts of interesting animal. Since I did not go in and destroy what was there I have many wild plants in the area.


    To enhance the area, I have created paths that wind through the area. It is interesting to see the wild animals using my paths. (We enjoyed watching a squirrel that was completely baffled when the leaves disappeared from on of the paths this fall.) It is nice place to sit on a lawn chair with a breeze on a hot day in the afternoon.


    Some general comments on your other points.

    1. No tree is fast growing. Even the fastest will take years to become any thing

    2, Trees grow all of their lives,

    3. So even if the ads say 25' it will continue to grow as long as it lives and will exceed that height.

    4. Even a small tree will quickly fill the are in your pictures. Japanese Maples are generally consider small trees but the canopy spread will exceed 12' quickly.

    6. Depends on your pet. Some animals like to climb trees, out cats like the highest place they can find to sleep, Dog like send the p-mail on them

  • ViburnumValley central KY Bluegrass z6
    2 years ago

    Here you go...




  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    2 years ago

    uhhmmmm...


    so you are going to cut down trees .. to plant another tree .... too close to the house ...


    uhhmm .... why not just move the patio and chairs back out under the wild trees.. and be done with it ..


    work smart.. not hard ..


    ken


    ps.. no tree stops growing at some magical height ....


    pps: whats this pong you allude to??? .. ohh.. pond.. nvm ....

  • nickel_kg
    2 years ago

    I'm not understanding your property's site plan, but for a tree pleasant to sit under, low maintenance, strong, etc, look into a Zelkova. Or a white Natchez Crepe Myrtle. Or a mimosa (Albizia julibrissin, aka Pink Silk Tree).


  • Jason, zone 7A, near Greensboro NC
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    It's hard to show the issue in 2D pictures, but I'll try. Here's what it looks like from my deck, starting with the rock patio on the Western side and then walking to the East:










    The previous homeowners put in the fence, and you can see in the last picture that they took a sharp left turn to cut out a section of wild trees that they didn't want to deal with. So the back yard is kind of a weird shape.


    The area that they built around has 5 large field pine trees in it, and they're all leaning towards the house. Field pine is notorious for shallow roots, so there's a real danger that any of those 5 could fall in a storm and hit the house! Especially the one in the last pic (outside of the fence, to the left of the one with the vine around the trunk). The limbs are all on the side facing the house and there are virtually no limbs on the other side, so it's leaning pretty heavily towards the house.


    To have them taking out, most of the other trees will have to come out, too. So while it's being done, I figure that I might as well rebuild the fence and make it in to a prettier garden area.


    The entire yard is about 1 acre, and I have 4 more acres of wild woods surrounding me. I love my wildlife, too, @krnuttle, so I HOPE this doesn't cause too much of an issue! But I love my house just slightly more than I love animals, and I don't want a tree coming through the roof... LOL

  • Jason, zone 7A, near Greensboro NC
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    @nickel_kg, thanks for the suggestions! I've seen mimosa trees at my jogging trail and they're gorgeous! And with a growth rate of 3' per year, that might fit the bill. I read that the life expectancy is only 20 years, though, so that might be an issue.


    I don't think I've ever seen the Zelkova, but at a 1' per year growth rate it might be too slow.


    The crape myrtle grows at 2' per year, so right in the middle. That might be exactly what I need :-D

  • krnuttle
    2 years ago

    Questions: Field pine is not a biological term. Forest have many different pine trees. What type of pine tree is it. Biologically engineered Lob lolly pine are one thing, long leaf pine are another


    What general direction does the wind come from, IF they fall they will probably fall in the opposite direction ie wind comes from the west the trees will probably fall to the east


    Pine tree are designed to with stand the wind, and many grow to 50 to 100 years old. Spend some time learning about the trees in your yard and don't fall for the prevalent theory that is floated on forum: "the only good pine is one that has been cut down"



  • ViburnumValley central KY Bluegrass z6
    2 years ago

    Zelkova serrata...great to sit under - but you'll want a bigger backyard.








  • beesneeds
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    I can understand if you want to remove the pines because they might be a danger to the house.

    However, I'm going to offer some alternative to a tree with one height to walk under and a larger root system below. How about an arbor system or pergola of smaller trees? With your area, the best tree to sit under to have comfy chilling with a book might be something more like a patio with plantings to arch up over. And lights to hang from :) And the structure can help support and define your trees growth habits. What kinds of trees? Up to you. Depending on the sun and all that of course. But if you get some good sun, smaller fruit trees or other vines to train. Flowers of all sorts. Maybe some veggies like longer vinging gourds, beans, tomatoes, ect.

    You might even be able to plan in a wee bit of controlled fire pit action if you plan it well. There's a lotta other tree back there it looks like, so not sure on the firepit. You got 4 acres past the fence and if you aren't sure you can always ask.

  • gardengal48 (PNW Z8/9)
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    'Field pine' is another common name for loblolly or Pinus taeda, the second most populous tree species native to the US. Contrary to what was posted above, they have a very secure root system, with a taproot extending 4-5 feet and a dense network of lateral roots delving down as much as 3' below the soil surface. This feature makes mature specimens wind throw resistant despite their height.

    And if by mimosa, you mean silk tree or Albizia julibrissin, it is considered an invasive species in your area and its planting is discouraged.

  • ViburnumValley central KY Bluegrass z6
    2 years ago

    Crape-myrtle is a handsome ornamental tree, but there are likely zillions in NC. It does have the component parts you suggested.


    Here's a group of 'Natchez' at the Lewis Ginter Botanical Garden...it's got good bark.






    'Biloxi' growing at the US National Arboretum - smooth operator...



    I think there's one called 'Townhouse' or something like that, with more chocolate brown in the striking bark display.

  • nickel_kg
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    I wonder why they installed a stockade fence. Personally with that much woodland, I'd want to see it, enjoy the view, make walking paths into it.

    The contractors who cleared the land for our previous house said, "We can take out those pines for you now, or mother nature'll take'em out for you later." We left most of them, and sure enough most of them did fall down -- but it took Hurricane Isabel to do it. Ours were virginia pines, our soil was sandy, the hurricane dumped a ton of water then came the wind. They weren't near any structure, other than our webwire fence so no big deal.

    Mimosas aren't native, do seed themselves where they're happy, but hummingbirds love the blossoms. Zelkovas (like many trees) grow fast when they're young, then slow down. How many decades will you stay in that house? Mature size might not be an issue.

    Another tree to consider is redbud. Native, pretty flowers in early spring, not many pests, don't get awfully big.

    Have you visited the NC arboretum or public gardens? I don't remember the name of the one near Asheville but I remember it was wonderful, with areas of "garden" as well as areas that were more wild. It would be a good resource for you as you develop your plans.

  • Jason, zone 7A, near Greensboro NC
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    Questions: Field pine is not a biological term. Forest have many different pine trees. What type of pine tree is it.


    @krnuttle, that's an excellent question, but I'm afraid that I don't know the answer. These trees are very common here, and all that I've ever heard them called are "field pine".


    These typically grow very tall, and the lower limbs die off and look ugly unless you trim it. Upper limbs have a tendency to break off, too, which can be pretty dangerous underneath.


    They attract ants, and it's not uncommon to find them completely eaten away on the inside. A few years ago I cut one down that was green and healthy looking at the top, only to find out that the entire inside was gone and it was nothing but bark! When it fell, literally millions of black ants came pouring out!


    They're also covered in creosote, which makes them popular kindling for fires because it's very flammable.


    So with all of that, these are good trees to have in the woods as an evergreen and help prevent erosion, but definitely not something you want up close to your house.


    I had one very large one in my back yard when I moved here. It was pretty cool looking, but one evening there was a storm and we heard a huge WHAM and the whole house shook!!! Like, pictures fell off the walls kind of shake. I thought an airplane had crashed! But no, the tree had fallen over, and luckily fell away from the house.


    With it fallen over, I could easily see that the root system was relatively shallow. That's what scared me with these other trees that are closer to the house than I would like... all it takes is one good storm, ya know?

  • Jason, zone 7A, near Greensboro NC
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    I wonder why they installed a stockade fence. Personally with that much woodland, I'd want to see it, enjoy the view, make walking paths into it.


    @nickel_kg, they had pets, too, so they put in a fence to have a safe area for the dogs to roam. And that was a selling feature when I bought it.


    Unfortunately, I was young and dumb and didn't know anything about "home inspections" and all that. NOW I realize that they bought it cheap, did about $20,000 worth of cosmetic improvements, and flipped it for a $75,000 profit! But I've had to undo literally everything they did due to shoddy workmanship, and have easily invested more than $100,000 in updates and repairs :-(


    I'm just now clearing out same of the overgrowth in the front yard, though, and I'm focusing a little more on wildlife with that. I still want it to be pretty for me, but I'm focusing more on making the whole area healthy and supportive for wildlife. I'm learning as I go along, though.

  • Jason, zone 7A, near Greensboro NC
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    How many decades will you stay in that house?


    I'm 46 now, and I live in an economically depressed area so selling the house is unlikely. So unless something amazingly good (or amazingly bad) happens, I'll probably die here :-O


    My dad started having medical problems in his 50s, so while I try to be healthy and get a lot of exercise, I'm also keeping it in the back of my mind to make everything as maintenance-free as possible... just in case I'm unable to do too much in the next 10-15 years.


    I appreciate all of the suggestions, all of you! I'm definitely taking notes and looking up pictures of everything you've suggested :-)

  • westes Zone 9b California SF Bay
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Regarding the Albizia julibrissin "Silk Tree", remember that this is a member of the pea family. It lives about 50 years. This is the show piece of my front yard, and I cannot tell you how heart breaking it is to wait 50 years to have a magnificent tree develop to then be faced with its certain death in the next 10 years. Most trees grow slowly. They are an investment of time. You want an investment that pays dividends for 100 years.

    Chionanthus retusus "Chinese fringe tree" might work there. It grows slowly but develops an amazing elevated canopy:

    https://www.hmiadvantage.com/drdirrchionanthus-retusus-chinese-fringetree/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM2Yi9bI-f8

  • cecily 7A
    2 years ago

    Mimosas are invasive trash trees: please don't plant that.

    Crapes are over planted and scale/sooty mold is spreading. Not a great choice.

    Redbuds are native and a great early food source for pollinators. That's your best alternative so far.

    Now the practical question: where is your septic field?

  • nickel_kg
    2 years ago

    Well, your fence has taken on a pleasant weathered-wood look, which suits your setting better than a stark white plastic stockade fence. So, could be worse :-) With luck, 46 is young but it's good to think about minimizing future work whenever possible -- who wouldn't choose to have extra time to fill, versus being overwhelmed with projects all needing to be done!

    For learning about how to support wildlife, the books by Doug Tallamy are informative and inspirational. For tree identification, I'd recommend getting a copy of the Golden Field Guide to Trees of North America, rather than relying too much on the internet or even the local nursery (sometimes they want to sell what they have and will fudge on the name).

    Good luck, and don't fret overmuch about what choices you make -- you can't please everyone, and sometimes it's better to just get started.

  • Jason, zone 7A, near Greensboro NC
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    Unfortunately, @nickel_kg, the support boards of the fence has almost rotted away!! Plus, the posts were driven straight in to the ground without cement, so they're rotting away, to. I have ropes and straps all over the place holding it up :-O


    My goal for the year is to start replacing it one panel at a time, as money allows.


    I'll check out those books, thanks! You're right, most of my info comes from the internet, and I do get a lot of mixed data. There's only one local nursery, but I get a LOT of mixed info from them, too! I've actually lost faith in them. I also talk to the local coop office some, but I think I'm getting on their nerves... LOL



    @cecily 7A, am I right that redbuds are just green through the Summer? I looked at several, and it sounds like they're only colorful for a short period before they turn green:


    https://www.fast-growing-trees.com/products/forest-pansy-redbud?variant=13940831649844


    Now the practical question: where is your septic field?


    Based on the original map and the color of the grass, I think it's on the far Eastern side of the property; well away from everything I'm working on :-)


    I'm having the "call before you dig" guys come and mark all of my lines, too. CenturyLink just showed up today and messed up ALL of my goldfish pond plans!

  • nickel_kg
    2 years ago

    If you haven't yet gone to your Arboretum, go now, it's Springtime and the weather will never be better! And stop by McKay's Used Books on the way back, look through their garden section. They're bound to have some instructive books on all sorts of landscaping projects. It doesn't matter how old the book is (well, if it's pre-WW1 it might not apply, those folks had gardening staff!) because good basic landscaping design; proper construction techniques for fences, sheds, pergolas, etc; and botany/plant identification manuals hold their value through the years. Or, even those magazine-sized books that Home Depot and Lowes stock near the cash registers can give you a solid base to start with. As you say, internet info is iffy.

    Your property sounds like such fun. My DH and I moved into town when I retired, and much as I like the convenience, I still miss my woodlands, birds, butterflies, and peacefulness. Enjoy what you have :-)

  • cecily 7A
    2 years ago

    Since you live in a rural area and much of your shopping is on line by necessity, you need to become familiar with Dave's Garden. It is a website that tracks reviews of mail order nurseries. Fast Growing Trees is not a reliable vendor so just stop ogling their web site.

    Forest Pansy redbud was very popular a decade ago but I don't know anyone who still grows it. Mine are the straight species. Weren't you considering a crab for your backyard?

  • Jason, zone 7A, near Greensboro NC
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    Haha, @cecily 7A, for whatever reason FGT comes up first on pretty much every tree search I make! I don't know if they're just THAT good with SEO, or if Google saw that I was on there once so they keep throwing it at me.


    Finding a good vendor has been a serious pain, though. I can't tell you how many I've emailed and either get no reply, or what they do say is brief and borderline unprofessional. Like they're really annoyed that I'm asking for help before giving them $1000? I know that's not a lot of money to some people, but I work hard for my money and don't like to throw it away. Especially plants, when it can take YEARS to find out that I bought the wrong thing!



    Weren't you considering a crab for your backyard?


    I was, but that was when I was planning to put apple trees in the front yard and needed a pollinator. I've more or less abandoned the apple tree idea, though, so I don't need a pollinator anymore.


    I might still do a crabapple in the back, but just no here; the fruit would definitely be a nuisance.


    I actually keep coming back to @beesneeds suggestion of a pergola... I have a metal one over another rock patio that's more or less unused, so it wouldn't be hard to move it and then cover it with vines. I'm giving that some serious thought!



    @nickel_kg, I grew up in this town, and was surrounded by woods throughout my entire childhood. I moved away and 18 and lived in a few cities, but as I'm getting older I find that I appreciate the solitude and wildlife a lot more than I realized :-D


    I'm also self employed and work ALL the time, so gardening building things like this are nice respites from work!

  • cecily 7A
    2 years ago

    A vine covered pergola is an elegant solution and will provide shade much faster. Consider lonicera Major Wheeler for your vine: it's a native honeysuckle with a long bloom period. Stay away from trumpetvine and wisteria. They are rampant growers which would overwhelm your space.

  • nickel_kg
    2 years ago

    I love cecily's idea -- you already have a structure, and lonicera Major Wheeler is easy and attracts hummingbirds. And even in winter it holds some green leaves for me in zone 6A.

  • beesneeds
    2 years ago

    I'm glad my pergola suggestion works for you Jay- and cecily's excellent vine suggestion should be grand once established :)