Blue Angel

Yes agree with Blue Angel. Heruga if you are thinking of getting one mine is over 8 1/2' across after many years.

It could be Elegans.

Wow, that’s a little extreme for a hosta. Do you ever divide it and how do you possibly lift an 8.5 ft clump in the future when you need to?

Yes it is a listed as a giant (size category) for good reason. I have never and will never divide it. I planned for its eventual size so moving it would be unnecessary in my case. Often a person would sever a piece off the edge if they wanted another. It can be done early before they are leafed out or later in the season. If someone were to move one this size it would require digging out all around and under it and a couple of strong backs. Below I have added Kens tutorial. Heruga there are thousands to choose from and we should select one that will fit the available space.

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/2000608/moving-a-large-fully-leafed-out-hosta-lots-o-pix

I also think Blue Angel.

I have to wonder what it is about the plant that makes one think it is Blue Angel rather than Elegans? I have a mature Elegans, but not a mature Blue Angel. (Just wanting to learn.)

To my eye Elegans has a more refined look

Elegans is the big one in the center

Blue Angel: note flower shape and leaf tip

compare to Elegans:

I think the flower is very specific on BA as well as that long mucronate tip.

debra

My Elegans.

nhl here is a side by side. Elegans on left Blue Angel on right. The Ligularia that separates them is slow this year.

Yes, you can see the more spade like shape of the leaves ant the long pointed tip that they come too. Elegans comes to a point, but it is smaller and the leaves abit rounder, in my opinion. BA has that very distinctive flower, that will tell you for sure.

debra

Rumpled! That’s what it is! To my eyes Blue Angel has a more rumpled look

Hey Peren.all, I just bought a small 'elegan's yesterday and going to be dividing then planting it soon. How wide is your 'elegans'? I am hoping it also gets as big as 8ft wide but it doesn't look like so in your pic?

Congrats Heruga! Is it your first? I just went out to measure and it is 5' across, still that is considered large. Mine is starting to flower now. Here is a link to Hosta Library - Compare HostaYou can bring up pictures and do side by side comparisons. Great site. Read up on 'Elegans' if you like, the gist being there is not one but many blue sieboldiana type called 'Elegans' in the trade. A lovely Hosta.

nhl both 'Elegans' & 'Blue Angel' are starting to flower. I will take another pic to show the huge difference in flower.

I thought maybe Humpback Whale, but after seeing some side by side at the Compare site (thanks for that), it seems Elegans is more blue than HW.

Thanks, yes it is my first time attemtping to grow a hosta in my own garden. I always defied it due to its vulnerability but our yard is now fenced in, and I needed something big and dramatic to fill in the back of my woodland garden(against fence). I’ll look into the library! I did read up on it a month ago because I was interested and said mature height 48” but then after many years it will definitely be more than that. How many years ago did you plant it? I’m just trying to get an idea of how long I would have to wait until it fills up my desired area.

Peren.all, I would love to see the flowers of Elegans and Blue Angel! Looking forward to the pictures.

Heruga, I am wondering what you had read that said that Elegans would have a mature height of 48 inches. I don't believe Elegans is that tall. I'd say 3 feet at most. As Elegans grows, it won't get taller and taller, but it will get wider and wider. If you want it to grow better, I wouldn't divide it (as you mentioned you would). That will just set it back. Personally I find Elegans a slow grower, but I do grow it in shade.

Both are flowering for me now. The Elegans flower is completely different than Blue Angel.

Elegans has fewer stalks and many are below the level of the leaves:

debra

nhl I can take one today or tomorrow just starting to bloom and then later when in full bloom.

Heruga I agree with everything newhostalady said! Mine is in fairly deep shade and has been there close to twenty years. That area is backing on mature forest so tree roots could certainly be a factor but Blue Angel laughs at any competition. While Elegans will not be fully mature yet after 3 years it should have attained a good size. Welcome to the world of Hosta! Now that you have a blue maybe you will get a gold and then a variegated....lol!

Blue Angel is a prolific bloomer……I think I counted 18 the other day.

The flower has a large flower with many individual flowers.

And then there’s that long slightly twisted leaf tip. Not mucronate (I was wrong there) maybe attenuate(?) tip:

So show us your flowers and leaf tips and we’ll ID for sure.

debra

Oops sorry I meant width, not a height of 48”. I am slowly getting myself into foliage plants.. and I guess I couldn’t resist the dramatic foliage of hostas. I also did need something that will take very dry soil as it is under the outer canopy of 2 gigantic silver maples.

Omg 20 years and only 5 ft!? I just divided a tiny hosta and spaced them 6 ft apart and in a very easily dry area. Well looks like I have to wait until I’m almost 50 to see that same look your elegans has. Should I replant closer to each other? I plan on watering frequently for the next year

Don’t mind the burnt ferns, I will be moving them in the fall.

Yup, I do the same thing. Well, I make a straight line from a tape measure from the center of the plant out and extend half of its mature width, do that 4 times making a ’cross’ on the plant and then use a shovel/stick to make a circle. I just ran the sprinkler on it for an hour and a half lol. I was having dinner while it was running and I totally forgot about it. So yea, I should proabably get a timer. Beautiful hostas! Wow so much color with just the foliage. To be honest I actually like the looks of ’blue angel’ more now that you show them next to each other. Showier flowers, bigger, bluer.. is there anything the ’elegans’ can win against the ’blue angel’? I picked ’elegans’ because that was the only biggest blue hosta at my local nursery and I have a preferance of growing species plants that aren’t hybridized but cultivars are fine.

Thank you Debra and Peren.all for the pictures and explanations! I am getting more clarity on the difference between Elegans and Blue Angel. I am going to keep this thread to remind me of the differences in case I forget!

Hmm Elegans has truly white flowers held just above the foliage and I like that but I have to say for me Blue Angel wins in every way you mentioned. Faster grower and exquisite buds prior to flowering too.

You are most welcome nhl. Just wait for the next round of pics from us when the flowers are in their full glory!

Hmm. Well do you know if ’blue angel’ has any sieboldiana species parentage in it? I looked it up and it says their parents are two ’aden’ cultivars. Some websites vaguely state sieboldiana in it but I don’t know how accurate that is without much more info

Yes Heruga sieboldiana & montana lineage from Mark Zilis (Hostapedia).

Heruga, since you mentioned his name, ”Aden”, I reecomend reading “The Paul Aden Story”, it’s located on the front page of the Hosta Library, small grid on the bottom, third row to the right, second from the bottom row, under color wheels. He was quite a pirate and showman. Veeeeeerrrrry interesting read.

debra

Yup, his history with hosta breeding sure sounds like an interesting one!

So I called like 5 different nurseries today to track down the ’blue angel’ and finally one happened to carry it so I went there straight after work and got it. It was a 3 gallon pot so I divided into two but…. my hori hori knife does not cut through straight nor smoothly! So one half of the plant ended up being almost flat with only a small portion of its rhizome still intact. Will it survive or should I just get rid of this and buy another one?

Heruga I am so glad you got Blue Angel! I love my hori hori knife and use it for all kinds of jobs but never dividing a Hosta. I use a straight sharp blade. We can all appreciate trying to save money by dividing but one wrong cut and you can lose money rather than saving. I would put the two divided pieces together and yes I would buy another since you wanted two.

Ok, when you put 2 of the pieces together will they eventually compete for space? Since they are 2 plants now. Or do the rhizomes somehow fuse into each other? Not sure how this works

They should grow together just like when I have planted two small hostas together to make a bigger one to start.

debra

spaced them 6 ft apart and in a very easily dry area.

hosta are water hogs.. a dry area is not a good idea ..

steelers plant does not look like elegans ...

and i thought elegans bloomed in late may.. and the flowers were barely if at all just above the leaf height.. if they are are above the plant.. it isnt elegans ..\

then of course.. there is the whole story that the true elegans has probably been lost to the trades.. except to the very hardcore collectors.. who might know where to get the real one..

back in the 60s and 70s,. they thought it came true from seed.. but it doesnt.. and didnt.. but they sold them all under the name elegans ... ergo.. the real one is all screwed up ..

5 to 7 years for a mature plant ... and maybe an extra year or two.. since you started by cutting yours in half ...

and maybe add another year.. if you are going to keep it dry ...

ken

Heruga, all hosta are not created equal! In my opinion, it would be better if you did not divide your new hosta, but just plant it. Let it grow for a few years and then divide. Some hosta take more time to recover after dividing than others. Also when dividing, if the hosta is out of a pot or removed from the soil, it would be best to wash the soil off of the roots. That way when you divide the plant, you can see the crown and the roots and where the best place to cut the hosta would be. I have found that used serrated bread knives work great for cutting! (Got some from a second hand store!) And sometimes you can just separate it with your hands.

I think you mentioned Silver Maple trees nearby? If their roots are in your garden bed, that will slow down the growth of your plants.

My Elegans:

I love the big blue leaves that Elegans has. I love that the flowers are not too high and just above the foliage most of the time.

Since my Blue Angel is still new for me, I am hoping to love it as much as Elegans!

Peren.all, I will be waiting to see flowers in full glory for both hosta!

I don't grow either but in regard to dry shade, I have an area under pin oaks that is very dry and it's very hard to grow anything there. We water all the time but still plants struggle even though we have had the oak branches below 12 feet removed. If your area is quite dry, you will have to water a lot. We have finally decided to grow hostas in pots in that area. This allows us to move them out to get more sun when needed and to monitor the amount of water that they are getting. I think that you mentioned silver maples, please be aware that maple roots are near the surface and will also interfere with plants that are near them. The roots will extend just as far the tree canopy. I have a red maple in my front yard that is easily 30 feet high and I know that it's roots extend at least that far. We have a hard time growing anything even grass under the tree since the roots are so invasive.

NHL, is that an Elegans flower growing through a spot of ginger? Cute!

debra

Debra, I cheated. I put the flower there!

I have had a lot of trouble growing plants especially due to my two mature Sugar Maples trees in my city backyard. Love the shade, hate the roots. It's taken me a while, but I have learned a lot about tree roots. "The roots will extend just as far the tree canopy," is not correct. I do agree with the rest of what you said though Miles.

I always was thankful that the huge Norway Maple a couple of houses over was not my tree! But now I have learned that the tree may not be in my backyard, but its roots probably are!

I link an interesting podcast discussing tree roots. Here is a bit of the conversation:

(Robert Kourig, author of 15 books)

"And there are a lot of problems with what people think about roots. The first I think is the most important: Roots are not a mere reflection of the foliage. A lot of people think they look the same underground; not true at all. In fact most tree roots grow very far sideways, mostly in the top 12-18 inches.

Most people think they grow as wide as the foliage, but in a heavy clay soil it can be as five times the width of the canopy. In a regular clay, maybe half again; in a loamy, sandy soil, maybe three times as wide as the foliage.

Q. So it’s not just that “this is a such-and-such tree, and it’s roots are going to be this way,” like it’s a template, the way its leaves will be recognizable as being of that species. The roots will adapt to what they encounter on their way down or sideways, and adjust.

A. Yes, they adjust. If you have a hardpan, say, down less than a foot, that will force the roots to go sideways, and that could be up to five times greater. That’s because they are trying to get enough volume of soil to absorb the nutrients and water they need to grow."

Taken from: https://awaytogarden.com/understanding-roots-with-robert-kourik/

Who are you referring to as ’steelers’ on the hosta not looking like elegans? Well if it is me I wouldn’t mind as long as its a sieboldiana. I went back to same nursery and bought my second elegans. Will be combining the 2 divisions together and plant the new one in place.

I didn’t know hostas take that long to mature. Some of my seed grown and cuttings perennials grow to mature size in just 1-2 years. I guess thats one drawback for this plant. I know a lot about maple roots as I have dealt with planting under all different types of maples-silver, red, sugar, norway Norway, Amur, and Japanese. They are so hard to dig into! But I believe that with consistent watering my hostas will flourish there. But nothing much else other than my solomons seal or pachysandra, thats why I chose hostas for that spot.

By the way, since we are on hostas I would like to know something… can they get verticillium wilt? Many perennials in part of some of my nearby gardens is near decimation from the disease and was wondering if it will affect hostas. I know hostas are monocots and this disease tends to focus on dicot plants but I read an old thread somewhere in this forum where someone asked the same thing and nobody denied that hostas won’t be affected, but I thought the disease only affects dicots?

Steelers is one of the posters above who posted a pic.

Also, I don’ believe hostas get verticcillium wilt. On the home page of the HL, there is a likk for diseases and a separate link just for the dreaded HVX.

debra