Where does the walk in pantry lead to?

And am I to assume the door on the upper left leads to the outside?

What do you cook?

How do you cook?

When do you cook?

Who are the cooks?

Who eats?

Cpartist, walk in pantry leads to a back hall with garage entry and mudroom area. Yes, the upper left door leads outside to a deck area.

Mark, I am the primary cook for my family. I have four children who like to “help” and I would like to think they will offer actual help as they grow. We live in a rural area and do a fair amount of food preservation, canning, etc.
We do a lot of actually cooking, fresh fruits, veggies, etc and not a lot of pre-prepared food.

I do have a garage kitchenette where I can do canning to avoid heating up the house during the summer.

You've got all kinds of unused counter space on the top run. Why? One reason only. Obsolete priority from yesteryear. From the time before dishwashers. When two people stood at a double bowl sink every day after dinner. Why compromise the function of your kitchen for that.

Dan1888, good point. Do you have any suggestions?

I would absolutely put a prep sink on the island, especially with 4 kids who will be helping in the kitchen. You have space to make the island deeper so those seated aren't as close to the sink.

I hope all the traffic from the garage entry/mudroom will not be going through the kitchen. Also, the stub wall might need to be shallower to allow the fridge door to open fully (red circle).

Mamagoose, the intent of the walk through feature is to only be used for grocery drop off. I had a kitchen with major traffic through it before and it was extremely frustrating to have kids darting between my legs constantly as I cook, not to mention others who were simply trying to get to another area of the house.

Your example with the prep sink is what I had in mind if I leave the appliances as they are. I hadn’t considered the possibility of stools on the end of the island! That’s a good thought. I will also have to research proper dimensions for the fridge to be able to open if it stays there! Thanks for all your thoughts!

Does the mudroom provide another way into the besides throught the pantry and kitchen?

Bpath, yes. You can enter another way from the mudroom entrance. The pantry is not intended to be a main entry way.

I think a local competent architect that you can sit down at a table with to design the kitchen/house with would benefit you greatly. At least a Kitchen Designer.

From what you have mentioned about canning, it seems a well ventilated space adjacent the kitchen designed for canning would be infinitely better than heating and humidifying the garage.

What are your oppositions to the prep sink. I have a somewhat similar layout going in my new build, and for a while, we didn't want a prep sink in the island, but realized how much of a benefit it would be. ESPECIALLY with kids who will grow up to be able to help prep or clean up, and also especially as you prep large amounts of food to keep that away from the cleanup area. Keeping raw meats, etc. away from fresh veggies was part of it, and having a sink near the fridge for anything dripping also convinced us.

You have a larger problem. Your main work zone where you cook is also the fastest way from the garage to the rest of the house. One of the primary rules of a good kitchen for safety mostly is to not have a kitchen be a "hallway" between other rooms. (It's easier to run through the work zone than to go around the island. Ask me how I know.) And yes, you do say there's another way to go into the house, but knowing kids I wouldn't bet on them not still using your kitchen as a pass through.

Additionally as mentioned you have lots of space on the back wall, but as arranged it will wind up being a dumping place for all sorts of things instead of useful work space.

And your cleanup sink assuming you put in a prep sink is as far as possible from the dining room. That's quite a distance to walk carrying dirty dishes.

Also, how far is the sink from the stove? No more than 9' is considered ideal.

To understand all what I'm saying, realize we take food out of the pantry/refrigerator, bring it to the sink to prep, then prep between sink and cooktop, Now look how far your fridge is from your sink.

Is this a new build? Can changes still be made?

Would you be willing to post the rest of the floor plan?

It is a new build. Some changes could still be made but nothing major. I am hesitant to post my entire plan. I did work with a reputable architect.

I think folks just aren’t reading your info well. You said there is more than one way from mud room so this is in fact not a major route just one of two ways. Depending where you are in the build don’t post the plan. If you are still on paper and open to feedback do but otherwise don’t bother as it will get torn apart.

I think people do understand that there are 2 ways, but the easiest/fastest way from the mud room to the living room is through the kitchen so people will go that way. Think of it this way: if you changed the door to a pass-through window you could eliminate that problem, but I'm pretty sure you're thinking but then I'd have to walk AROUND the stairs to get to the kitchen...and that's what everyone else will be thinking too. Unless your mudroom closet/hooks/whatever it may be makes people walk almost to the stairs to put things away, I think people will be coming through the kitchen.

Given that, I think a prep sink is really important (not to mention, it will reduce the fridge to sink distance, which will become bothersome). Given the paths through your kitchen, I don't think you have another layout that would work better.

I would consider removing the stub wall altogether if you can, and do a built-in fridge. I would also try to make the walkthrough pantry big enough to have storage on both sides. Your stair landing looks pretty big - seems like that could be reduced to make room.

I'll echo LH/ CO/FL's question: why don't you want a prep sink?

Ironically I was just in a home with your kitchen layout! Well not exactly same but similar. It was lovely. They actually have a pantry in the corner where you have the walkway. They do have a prep sink. It’s a very large kitchen. It was very nice.

Can you move the door to the outside to the back wall instead? I have an idea but I'd also have to just see how the living room relates to the kitchen and full dining area.

Glad to hear you have an architect you're working with. The problem is, most architects are rather poor kitchen designers.

WestCoast, you say that's the same kitchen. I must be missing something because I don't see the pantry walking through from the garage to kitchen and into the work zone. What you show is a classic L shaped kitchen, one of the most desireable layouts. Especially when working with multiple people like the OP said in the future she's hoping to do with her children.

I said not exactly the same but similar and that there is a pantry behind the door, which just looks like cabinets in case that isn’t clear, it leads to a pantry and laundry room. So yes not a mud room but it isn’t an L shape only and it shows the prep sink quite nicely as well as the general layout of things.

Where is the pantry door? Between the fridge and oven?

After the wall oven right in corner

I’m this picture it’s right behind left pendant light

The exterior door to the deck area can be moved.

I have reservations about a prep sink because it just seems like another extra thing to maintain and clean. I am not completely against it and fully understand that the design might require one. I would much rather have a prep sink than an island I am continually walking around.

Here is a photo showing the relationship between the three areas.

Thanks WestCoast for your thoughts and pictures!

One idea I had been throwing around would flip the stove to the other side and close off the opening to the living room a little. Also would have to relocate the door to the deck. The cabinets on the stair wall could be a reach in cabinet pantry…
I am open to any constructive thoughts!

Have you considered having more access to outside? Where do you live? We love a huge slider off the dining/kitchen for patio access and backyard fun. Four kids likely want outside space?

Before working out details of the kitchen design, there may be other issues that need attention that could potentially effect the kitchen design.

Rarely does a wall built into a door opening work well.

Mark, these are not the actual blueprints. This is just a mock up made with a local designer. On the actual blueprint there is plenty of room. Thanks though!

That is a relief.

One idea I had been throwing around would flip the stove to the other side and close off the opening to the living room a little. Also would have to relocate the door to the deck. The cabinets on the stair wall could be a reach in cabinet pantry…
I am open to any constructive thoughts!

That is exactly what I was going to draw out for you. This alleviates the issue of anyone running (or walking) through the work zone of the kitchen and creates a wonderful L shaped kitchen.

However a prep sink would still work better on the island. Why?

As mentioned, when we cook, we take food out of the fridge and pantry, bring it to the sink to prep, and then prep between sink and cooktop before bringing the prepped food to the cooktop to cook. Ideally you don't want to be crossing zones; the zones being the storage zone, the prep zone and the cooking zone.

If you're still against having a prep zone, I'd move the fridge to the right of the sink next to the door on the back wall on the redone idea. So you'd have right to left, fridge, dishwasher, sink. But for me personally that would be my last choice.

I’m this picture it’s right behind left pendant light

Yes this kitchen you show looks beautiful, but think about it. You are at the cooktop and someone comes out of the pantry, right behind you. I stand by my statement about not having people go past you in the work zone.

Tmoms are you planning on having a dishwasher? I ask because I don't see it in your plan.

Again I was just showing a similar layout kitchen that I’ve personally been in and loved.

Yes, we definitely will have a dishwasher!

I definitely understand the concept and flow of going from the fridge to sink. We have fresh cut veggies with almost every meal. I am agreeable to the prep sink if needed for whatever layout i end with. There is nothing more annoying than walking circles around an island.

For the first time in my new house, I did put in a prep sink and I LOVE it. We are in the only kids living here now stage are our two dogs. It is so nice having DH help wash and put dishes away while I prep and cook or set the table, make drinks, etc.

However I did things a bit differently. My Mother in her later years got Parkinson's disease and while she could still prep and cook for her and my Dad, there would have been no way for her to carry the food across the aisle. Instead for her, the easiest was for her to just push it along the counter to the cooktop, so when I designed my kitchen, I actually placed my prep sink next to my fridge along the perimeter and my cleanup sink on the island. For me that works, because I do tend to clean up as I go and not leave things in the sink, etc. And I was thinking of the future as a just in case. (Pic of my kitchen below. You can see my cleanup sink on the island with the dw to it's right and drawers to the left for silverware and everyday dishes. The prep sink is under the stained glass window and I do all my prepping to the left of the sink between the sink and the cooktop which is on the lefthand side of the photo. Fridge is to the right of the sink next to the snack/dog's supply cabinet)

One other thought for you. Have you considered having separate ovens and a cooktop versus an all in one. This way as the kids get older, one can be stirring the pot literally for you while you're tending to stuff in the ovens.

We have fresh cut veggies with almost every meal.

Ok now I'm jealous. LOL

The fresh veggies are great. It’s just hard keeping them in the house with how fast my kids eat them. We love garden season!

I have not considered a separate cooktop from the ovens although I can see how that might be beneficial.

Do most people not eat fresh veggies daily?

I am a vegan. All the beef I eat is grass fed.

Good one! Maybe I’m showing my ignorance to what Americans eat but we have fresh veggies every day all year round.

I think she's saying that they're always fresh from her garden!

And back to my reasoning for the prep sink -- we always have a huge salad at dinner and fresh veggies with the entree. My partner makes the salads while I'm still finishing up the entree, and it's going to be so nice to have a separate sink that's only used for veggies and I'll have a place to put things for cleanup in the other sink. You had mentioned that it was extra work/maintenance, but if it's really just for prep it shouldn't get too dirty, and it will make daily chores much easier.

I think if you don't mind closing off your living room from your kitchen/dining, flipping the kitchen will make things much better. I would add a door to the exterior from your living room as well. Your kitchen layout would actually be very similar to the one we designed (except the prep sink would be on the other side of the island from what's shown here).

Regarding a prep sink - you should still have one. You will spend more time walking from your fridge to your sink in your current layout than it would take to maintain it. And if you get stainless steel they are basically maintenance free.

Do most people not eat fresh veggies daily? I don't want to derail this thread, but look up 'food deserts' where people with limited access to transportation procure most of their groceries from dollar store-type establishments.

Fair. Folks who are designing a custom home on Houzz aren’t exactly having limited access to transportation…

Is not being able to afford a Rolls Royce a "limited access to transportation"?