I just went to look at their website and while it still shows Heathcliff’s picture it is out of stock and doesn’t show a date when it will be available.

Doesnt that usually mean it has been discontinued and if so do we think I could still have gotten it in April?

Just got a message from David Austin, they think it is England’s Rose. Thoughts?

I don't see how they came up with that, I would be very surprised if your rose is England's Rose.

It looks more like photos of Darcy Bussel or Thomas a Becket to me, but I haven't seen any of the current Austin reds or dark pinks in person.

Right??? It sure doesn’t look like England’s Rose to me!

Maybr they're guessing because it's so close alphabetically?

That makes sense @smithdale1z8pnw, mine just looks so much darker than England’s rose to me

That sure is a pretty NOID! I’d guess Darby Bussell for closest alphabetical, but the unfurling bloom reminds me of Tess of the d’Urbervilles. Carol

Ok this is what it looks like now, 4:15 pm 90 degrees in the shade

Ill look more closely at Heathcliff and my other Austing reds such as Falstaff. I dont think its Darcey Bussell and probably not Tess.

Does anyone have England’s rose and does anyone think it’s a possibility?

What about LD Braithwaite or however you spell that. I'm probably way off. But anyway, maybe?

I have absolutely no experience with any reds-just started dipping my toes in that pool. i will research LD

Yes Magpie, that is who I was thinking not Benjamin Britten. Good guess

I don't think it's England's rose. Nor is it Tess. Tess is less burgundy and more of a true red. Lovely color, Oursteelers!

If it helps anyone in their determination, I just took apart the bloom and it had 90 petals but some were still folded over in the center so that count could go a little higher.

Here it was this morning before the murder

And still no scent to speak of

Boy is it pretty ( before the murder lol )

By the time you figure it out, we will all want it.

If petal count really is important than I believe it has to be either Heathcliff, Falstaff or Tess.

And I think only time will help differentiate these roses. Size and fragrance need to supply the missing clues. And while there is slim to none in the fragrance department now that could all change.

I will be moving it in the fall though since I need that spot for the real Eglantyne

Oursteelers, Tess opens up to more of a fluffy pompom shape and it wants to be a climber (is a climber in my garden). I'll try to get a photo.

Oursteelers, are you moving locally ?

Tess is also seriously thorny.

That is too funny! I do feel the same way. Librarian, those are out out outstanding pictures of Tess that capture her bloom and color perfectly.

Got another measage from Austin and they think it is Sir John Betjeman. I’ve never even heard of that one!

Ha ha Oursteelers, now it sounds like they are just making up names.

I feel the same way about moving. If I ever do move again it will be grab my toothbrush and everything else stays. It will freak people out thinking that they missed the raprure.

I grew Darcy Busell before, and oursteelers 8B PNW's pics. look most like Darcy (glossy foliage, tiny brown prickles that are spaced apart, plus dark-red blooms). Darcy doesn't have much scent, and can have more than 80 petals if enough calcium.

I have L.D. Braithwaite as 2nd year own-root: BRIGHT RED COLOR (similar to Tess), but more greenish prickles and twice more vigorous than Tess.

My Tess as 5th-year own-root have prickles just like what librarian posted, plus bright red blooms, see below Tess:

Below are VERY DENSE prickles on 5 feet octopus canes of L.D. Braithwaite (bright red blooms), blooms open with lesser myrrh scent than Tess, then scent is gone completely.

My Darcey often shows her stamens.

It definitely could be Falstaff. Shape, color, thorn quantity, petal count.

In my opinion, Falstaff is very fragrant! Old rose scent. If that helps.

Carol

I guess I will just have to wait and see if it develops any scent. It seems weird to me that they think it is Sir John-a completely untalked about rose that seems very surprising to me that would just be hanging around in the hustle and bustle of shipping.

Breeding and research area maybe….

On HMF a few of the photos of Sir John look like a very close match to your rose.

Someone's post awhile back, they accidently got an Austin Summer Song- what are the odds of that ! I wish that would happen to me.

My Paul Neyron is a sly character, he likes to impersonate half a dozen other roses.

The Fang bush still has not shown any desire to bloom. it will be a long wait until Spring to determine exactly what rose it is. It just sits there folding it's thorny arms defying me in a prime sunny spot. I'd gladly trade for Sir John any day.

Freedom gardens is slated to carry summer song In the future. He is growing it up now.

Vap, do you know if he has plans to carry Mary Magdalene in the future?

Are you trying to get a third rose to combine shipping!? LOL!!! To my knowledge, he doesnt carry it, but its worth a try to send a quick email asking. If not, LongAgoRoses has it listed on HMF. What a beautiful rose.

I am not sure if your mystery rose is Darcey Bussell, but I have her and here are leaf and stem shots taken a few moments ago. She only has this one bud right now. The pictures of your bloom are very similar to her blooms with the stamens in the center peaking out a little when she fully opens. Her fragrance ranges from completely non existent to a light old rose honey.

Darcey Bussell is a mannerly shrub, light on thorns. I found a few pictures from last April.

I just found DB pics from August of 2020, which show her classic stamen-reveal look. When the weather is hot she has less petals and shows off her stamens more. Maggie is the pink rose with her

Hmmm, I’m intrigued by those leaves, Stephanie. They look an awful lot like mine to my eyes

I wouldnt know what her leaves look like, shes always defoliating here.😣 Yours is glorious @Stephanie, 9b inland SoCal

Ooh, I just got Maggie from A Reverance for Roses. I was very excited to see her in your picture

Maggie is a great rose here, so I imagine she will be for you, I hope.

Vaporvac It's ok for Freedom Gardens to propagate Summer Song ?

I looked up Peter Schneider's website; he discourages people in the North from ordering his bands. I guess it's too big a gamble to take , trying to get a new baby rose in Fall through winter in N Idaho. It was a momentary spark of hope, I'm foiled again.

A wet mantis climbed out of the flowers I was watering. I captured him and put him on Madame Anisette - one of the bonuses of hand watering.

Evening news; He's still here.

She, I think, Berrypie. She's got her head. Diane

And, Summer Song is still under patent, as you suspected. Diane

Peter only propagates roses for which he has permission to do so, including many European varieties not otherwise available. His contacts are worldwide and he is very well-respected in the rose industry.Just thought Id put folks mind at ease. He specifically states that on his site.🙂

Right you are about HER head Diane. A big cat face spider has constructed a long web stretching down from the roof , attached to a bamboo rose support right by the praying mantis that moved in. There may be a battle.

I think this might be who Cat Face was winding up to have for dinner last night.

Sorry about the distasteful sideline oursteelers , hope you will see the rose mystery solved.

Oh i don’t mind berry!

It sure looks like Munstead Wood. I do have Eglantyne, so far a bit spindly and BS. My MW had about the same size and amount of prickles as yours its first year, then WOW it really became thorny.

From the color, few prickles, and shape of the leaves (though not glossy), I submit Wm. Shakespeare 2000.

I grow Eglantyne, and mine is also spindly, sparse and floppy. The bush wants to be tall, but can't support itself, yet not really a climber. The blooms, however, are exquisite and would smell divine in your more humid climate. If I had a do-over, I would give her something to sprawl on. A low wall or boulder would be perfect.

oursteelers - I love you comment about moving! When my DH and I moved into our house 34 years ago, we both swore we would never move, but go out "horizontally". So far that is still our opinion. Our house is a family heirloom, and full of lots of smaller family heirlooms. I have been successful lately in off loading some of those to our various nephews & nieces, to my surprise. They finally got old enough (50s, with kids) to want to have old family stuff like a set of Minton dishes from 1880, etc. The trick is to wait until they are old enough!

Jackie