thanks Oursteelers! I pre-ordered

Munstead Wood

Bathsheba

Gertrude Jekyll

I had signed up to be notified as well, but the notification went to spam, so I’m glad you posted!

I just got emails saying Evelyn and The Countryman would no longer be offered. I guess that's that.

Junebug

I think you should spring for Lady Emma. She is one of the most beautiful, unique and fragrant of all the Austins, and she holds up well in dry heat!

John,

I’m sorry DA is making availability so difficult. The patented Austins they chose not to carry are the worse, because they make sure no one else will carry them either. At least with Evelyn, the patent is expired and others can offer her.

I see Charles Rennie Macintosh is available, how come more people don't grow that one? It is so beautiful in the photos I've seen.

Ben - oh my goodness!!! Your LEH bush is enchanting!! That color is fabulous!

Ben, your LEH does well in dry heat? Well then, I’m sure I do need her because dry heat is what we have most of the year here. Yours really shines next to that neighboring creamy rose. Thanks for sharing that photo.

@BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14)

What is the cream colored rose with the pink buds in the forefront of your last picture? It's beautiful!

I was signed up to be notified about the own roots but somehow I missed it and they're so out of stock....too bad.

Librarian

I don’t think you missed anything, they’ve been out of stock for some time and own roots are yet to be replenished. It’s only the bare root that are now available.

A 2 quart seems really small, just a bit bigger than a Rogue Valley Runt (And I’m prefectly OK with buying a band sized rare rose, but I’d expect potted roses from a major grower to be bigger). Has anyone received the 2 quarts, and how big are they?

This is the "2 quart" rose that I received in 2020 from DA roses. It is Desdemona. Definitely an overstatement unless I'm measuring quarts incorrectly. But it did grow just fine.

Thanks Noseo! Your plant looks about the same size as what High Country or Fresh Garden Living ships. I’m OK with the size, but good to know what to expect! They are pretty close to what Rogue Valley sent me and they had cute little flowers:

A trade gallon pot is .664 gallons, so perhaps a trade 2 quart is .332 gallon? They should just call it a 2/3 and 1/3 gallon, respectively! I think Ben and Jerry’s wins over the Nursery Industry…you buy a pint of ice cream, that’s what you get!

Yes, it’s the same size pot as HCR uses. Those look like some nice plants from RVR! very cute! It’s silly to call it a gallon or a quart when that isn’t accurate at all. Mmmm Ben and Jerry’s. Now I want some.

Pint of milk on left, half gallon (2quarts) on the right. I wouldnt say that the pot holds two quarts.

Nursery pots are not true gallons or quarts. I learned this years ago--this isn't a new thing. The so called 2 gallon rose I got several years ago from a reputable online seller was about the same size as the 2 quarts you are showing. And it was stripped of leaves and dirt to satisfy Idaho's ag rulings. Diane

Thanks, Ben! I'm glad I didn't miss it. The last two summers DA had own roots available to order in July for fall delivery. The pots are the same size as HCR but the DA plants had more developed roots than the HCR plants.

I wonder if they'll have them available for fall planting this year. The DA own roots I planted in October did really really well the following summer, blooming even better than the grafted roses that they had sent me in spring. My HCR plants received in the spring did very well, too. Overall, HCR and DA sent the best plants for the price, but that was back when DA charged only $29.

@BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14) what is that lovely lavender rose on the left in your photo with 2 potted roses? The one on the right is nice too, might as well get both names. Thanks!

Hi Soozie

The two roses are Lila Vidri and Old Port. I’m very thankful Rogue Valley carries so many hard-to-find roses like these, which seem available nowhere else!

Thanks @oursteelers 8B PNW for the information. I have a question: so the bare roots are grafted (shipping next spring), and the 2 quats are own root (shipping starting in end of september)?

Edit: just called DA and they confirm 2 quart potted roses are self root. Thanks!

Last spring I asked DA about the bareroot question and they said if a rose is listed on the "Own Root Roses" page, it is an ownroot bareroot. I can't tell if it's true since I bought potted roses eventually.

I think DA sells potted own root roses and bare root own root roses along with grafted bare root roses.

Looks like the potted roses are now mostly in stock. A few varieties are still listed as out of stock.

Feiy Lo,

I don’t doubt that you were told all the varieties listed as ”Own Root” were ownroot bareroot. But I find that hard to believe. that’s most of the Austins they currently sell, over 40 varieties. It also doesn’t make economical sense that they’d raise such a big own root bare root for $32, when their potted own roots are only band size for $35. I would think it’d take 2+ years to raise an own root to grade 1 or 1.5.

It seems goofy that the website still says own root bare roots. I don't want any more grafted, looks like I have to buy potted .

I just placed an order. it lists the $32 munstead wood (shipping next spring) as own root, while the $35 ones (shipping this fall) as 2 quart potted

I’ve puchased own-root bare root from DA and they were mostly the same size as the grafted ones. Some were a bit smaller. Some were bigger than the grafted ones. I’ve also purchased potted DA roses at the nursery and they turned out to be own root when I unpotted them. Most of the potted ones at the local nursery are grafted though. The potted own-root from DA are band size.

Hmm...just looked at the DA website and many of the ones listed in the Own-Root bare root are only available Bare Root when opening the page for a specific rose, and some are only bare root and potted, not own-root bare root. Probably a problem with their web design. This was a problem in previous years as well.

Thanks, Ben, it is beautiful! Another one for my wish list.

Bent, I think DA is "forced" to sell ownroot bareroot in the US since this is a large market here. In DA UK website there is no ownroot option. However their mindset seems not to accept this fact, that's why it's very confusing. *grin*

Just wanted to add that I have purchased the 2 quart own root plants from DA in the past and have never had any trouble with them. The 2 quart The Poet’s Wife I obtained from them this spring has been vigorous, fragrant and wonderful!

Lady Emma Hamilton has become one of my favorite roses this season. I like it so much that I feel lucky to have purchased two more for spring delivery 2023 before it promptly sold out for the season!

Be aware that there is a significant risk of getting RMV infected roses from Austin Roses here in the USA.

My last Evelyn was a Zebra.

I just switched my order from bare root to potted. I figure there might be a lesser chance of getting RMV without the Huey rootstock. They’re also shipping the potted this fall, so I could grow it under lights this winter and get the plant larger, sooner. That said, the few plants I’ve seen with RMV on them have performed fine.

I wonder if Francis Roses is growing grafted plants for Austin now as well as Certified. THey had some RMV on some of the plants they produced for Certified, and they have also shown their fields with some varieties like Olivia Rose Austin.

BenT, if you ordered Munstead Wood, it might perform better as a grafted plant. Just my two cents. In fact, I don't think there are a whole lot of Austin roses that do as well own root as grafted. I've dealt with RMV since 2005, and it dos not affect rose performance in my garden, though I don't like the looks of the stuff. All but one of the RMV affected roses I grow are Austins. One is a Meilland rose. Feel free to disagree with me. Everyone's experience with roses is different. Diane

I think they have decided that RMV does not kill roses, but those with it are not as healthy, and do not have as much vigor, as they would have if they were not virused. I have several roses in my garden which show symptoms of RMV. They are all mid 20th century roses, except for a few which are mystery roses. I have ordered a lot of own root roses from responsible old rose nurseries, and none of them have shown any symptoms of RMV. I personally don't think it is a good idea to purchase new roses which you know have a high likelihood of having that virus.

Jackie

Ben, I'm not sure if there's a difference in chance of RMV with their own roots only because if they take their cuttings from a grafted plant wherever they're producing them, and the grafted plant is infected, then ofc the own roots are now infected. But I hope yours is wonderful and healthy!

Magpie

You’re right, if they’re rooting their own-roots from their grafted, then the own roots would be affected too. I was thinking originally the budwood and mother plants that came from England was RMV free. But why would they be so disciplined to only use those plants to root new ones. They don’t regard RMV with any concern.

Diane,

I’ll try my luck with the own roots and if they grow poorly I’ll take your advice and try grafted next time. I had a few own-root Austin bands that I overwintered in mild California last year, they grew extensive roots and are now quite impressive size. So I’m hoping for the same with this order, that by next year I’ll have almost a mature plant.

First of all, there is NO EXCUSE for a nursery to be producing RMV-infected roses in 2022. Its laziness and a lack of caring about the customer experience. And profit.

Any nursery that produces an own-root version of roses they also produce grafted (on infected understock), is likely to be selling RMV infected own-root plants as well, since they are undoubtedly harvesting cuttings from their grafted inventory.

Secondly, there have been carefully planned studies done comparing infected VS non-infected roses (of the same variety) and it was very clear in the results that the RMV infected plants had less vigor, produced 15-20% fewer blooms in a season, tended to get fungal diseases more readily, and had significantly reduced freeze resistance.

Thanks for the info, @User, I wish I had realized this before ordering from them. If a plant is infected with RMV, how quickly does it show up?

Ben, if you're getting the potted plants this fall, I recommend putting them in the ground this fall. Winter is a great time for root development in warmer climates. Even here in my chill and rainy and low sun winter, the own root plants that I put into the ground in fall far put performed the bare roots that I planted the following spring. Being in CA yours will likely do even better as you don't have as short of winter days not as foggy dark winter weather as do I.

My Munstead Wood does just fine own root, but roses tend to get huge in my area. Overall, it is a more compact DA and one of the few that doesn't have ambitions to be a climber

@Meg-zone8aOR RMV may never show up as visual leaf damage. It can hide in the plant indefinitely without becoming symptomatic - a lot like viruses in animals.

The only way to find out if you have a virused plant for certain is to use a test kit specifically for viruses in roses. I have several OGRs that I know are virused, but rarely ever show visual symptoms. Case in point would be my 'Rose de Rescht' (which I have had for nearly thirty years): once every few years a few leaves appear with mild "lightning" marks on, but most years there are zero symptomatic leaves. So, I know its in the plant, but the foliage rarely displays evidence of it.

Without testing, there's no way to know what percentage of roses produced by the Texas grower are virused. But - we do know that its a non-zero number.

@User thank you! I have so much to learn about growing roses, I really appreciate your detailed answer to my question.

As I now have 4 David Austins from DA with RMV, I am trying to decide who to order from. I talked to Mike from Raft Island Roses and he said exactly what Paul Braden said "laziness!" He gets his David Austins from Canada budded onto Multiflora with NO RMV. He said they take precautions and are careful.

I would order from Heirloom with their DA's but it is sooooooo disappointing to open a rose package and see STICKS, when they don't need to take the leaves off for me, up the road. K&M sent me 4 ownroot roses all the way on the other side of the country with leaves and looking amazing. The price was cheaper to get K&M and just as well grown. (Yes, shipping was twice the cost of the roses!!!)

@Paul Barden So, even ordering own root potted from TX is likely to have RMV? I have 1 rooted cutting from a RMV rose and it has been struggling for 2 years. I am wondering if the RMV is acutally the cause of the struggle?

@ann beck 8a ruralish WA I can't answer that question - I do not know how DA/TX sources their cuttings for own-root production. If they harvest from their field grown grafted stock, then yes, its very likely you will acquire a virused plant. But if they are maintaining a "safe" block of source plants that they know are clean, from which they obtain cuttings, the odds are very good that you'll get a clean own-root plant. But we have no idea how they are producing their own-root plants, and I suspect they just get cuttings off their field grown inventory.

Have you folks read theirreviews on Yelp? Might be a good idea.

Scary.

Lol one of those reviews is mad about being charged during the time of purchase instead of time of shipping, and one is angry that the bare root roses came without any soil. Not to defend DA because obviously they have known issues but some of those yelp reviews are very questionable and also quite amusing.

Of course, reviews in general have a percentage of totally absurd complaints, and nurseries are no exception. But there are many complaints about quality of product and terrible customer support at DA/USA as well.

Case in point: One time - years ago - I had a customer complain because when shipped several plants of a Miniature Moss Rose variety, they were livid because they believed they were buying Portulaca grandiflora plants! (The annual succulent plant known by the colloquial name of "Moss Rose") This person called and ranted over the phone and threatened legal action because they were sold the wrong thing. Surreal experience, that was.

Wowza! That sounds like such a headache.

Magpie, you are so sweet and sympathetic! Yes, I can see that would have been a real headache for Paul Barden, but I must admit to feeling a laugh rising up inside of me at the irrationality of such ignorance.

This story makes a good example of why the latin names of plants are useful!

Jackie

OT>>> but obliquely on topic, lol.

The customer is always right! (Not!). Paul's story reminds me of an experience I had years ago when I was working retail. As a trusted and definitely over-worked and slightly abused associate, I had access to all the options a manager was given (though I was a lowly "associate"). Well, a customer came to purchase an item advertised as 25% off. The customer evidently had already calculated to the penny how much it should be. When it rang up at a slightly less dollar amount than 25% (meaning it was actually a better deal, at closer to 27% off), he ranted that he wanted his 25% off! I tried to explain to him that he was saving even more, and showed him the difference on a calculator. He pulled out his calculator and said "THIS is 25% off. That's what I want!". So, using the magic wand I'd been entrusted with, I marked the item UP on the register, charging him almost $5 MORE than it rang up originally, AND HE WAS PERFECTLY HAPPY.

Although my Munstead Wood this year may or may not have been virused—impossible to tell—it was by far the smallest bare root I’ve ever seen. I normally pot up my bare roots in a 5 gallon bucket, and high quality ones fill the container or don’t even fit inside it. My poor Munstead Wood was swimming in the 5 gallon bucket, so as a laugh I put it in my 3 gallon container I use for potting up own roots. It actually fit fine. The root system was tiny.

I requested a refund but was told the DA “5 year guarantee will back any issues I have”. In other words, the rose has to die for us to do anything about it.

They got their wish—the big CA heat wave did it in.