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Belle Portugaise

3 years ago

Has anyone grown this beauty into a large tree? Also, will it survive in my zone 7A climate. Helpmefind states zone 8A. But I saw a photo of it being grown in Northern Italy. Should I give it a shot or am I wasting my money & time. I'm going to put a vigorous climber into the tree (sycamore) in my front yard and I DON'T want white.

Comments (9)

  • 3 years ago

    First of all, Ken, a disclaimer: I have no experience with Belle P, and live in Tuscany ,not Northern Italy. Hopefully, Melissa will weigh in here, because on HMF it seems like the northern Italian garden in which its being grown might be nearer to her location rather than mine. However, here's my 2 cents worth: I doubt that northern Italy is anywhere near a zone 7A; maybe an 8A,but no colder. The rose MIGHT survive where you are located, but I doubt it could grow to any height with the cold of winter. In my garden in Tuscany, which should be around a zone 8, I have not been able to get any Giganteas to grow other than Emmanuela de Mouchy, though this might be due to factors other than cold, since my garden is very challenged.

    If it was me, I myself would probably choose something else; what about Mel's Heritage? https://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.51139.1 (gosh do I wish I could find someone over here selling THAT!) Note that this is supposed to accept zone 6A, so should be very happy with your climate. Or maybe even Emanuella, though max height for that is stated to be 450 cms, whereas Mel's H is stated to be 915 cms, much closer to BP's max height of 1220 cms. Or, my beloved Climbing Old Blush https://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.4532.2 This would be more borderline-zone 7A-9B , and can have powdery mildew issues etc,in fact, in my garden, it tends to put out it's early spring flush, after which it goes through a phase of being kind of "ghastly", dropping it's leaves, which then re-grow. But I still love it,and try to place it so that other plants will cover it while it goes ghastly...

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Ken, anyone on the forum who knows me also knows that BP is my all-time favorite rose, bar none. There is NO rose more beautiful. But no, it won't survive a 7a winter. It might make it through an exceptionally warm winter, and tantalize you with one glorious burst of bloom. But it's only teasing you. It WILL die in our first typical winter. Our winters are warmer than they were historically, but not that much warmer. BP is half R. gigantea, which is only hardy to zone 9 or 8b. The OTHER parent is Souv de Madame Leonie Viennot, which is a tea noisette only hardy to 7b. Add to that the fact that as a climber it will be more exposed than a rose closer to the ground, and, well...

    For years I've toyed with the idea of growing BP against a wall. But she can get huge (when she's not dying from cold). I've seen one in person in Italy that literally covered an entire house, which is still the most glorious sight I've ever laid eyes on. I have a photograph here somewhere I need to find and scan, just so I can make us all sick with envy. But though I sympathize with you, and appreciate your good taste in roses, I think facing reality in this case is going to save you trouble and heartache. Every time I'm tempted (which is every time BP is mentioned, much less pictured), I go read the blurb written on RVR's website:

    "Makes a very vigorous climber to 30′ or more. A hybrid of R. gigantea it is reliably hardy in Zone 9. However I have known several successfully growing it in the milder, Zone 8 areas of the Rogue Valley. Think microclimate and be prepared to allow it to regenerate from the roots when we have the occasional cold snaps that take us out of our zone limits. "

    P.S. I grow over thirty ramblers and climbers, most up into trees; some once-blooming, some remontant. I'll try to make a list for you of non-white climbers that do well here. Let me know if you prefer remontancy. But check out Francois Juranville, a once-blooming rambler. Bone hardy, light coral pink, and will DEFINITELY climb a huge tree. He's a robust feller, without being uncontrollable.

    EDIT: also, more bad news, most of northern Italy is zone 8-9b, with tiny mountain pockets of zone 7.

    USDA Hardiness zones for Italy

  • 3 years ago

    Re-reading Bart's post, I want to emphasize that she has some good suggestions. I don't grow Mel's Heritage, but I intend to, lol. It's an all-around amazing rose. Climbing Old Blush doesn't have the same health issues for me as it does for Bart. It's mostly clean here, with a little BS, and is usually in bloom even after first frost hits. It's worth growing just for it's late flush.

  • 3 years ago

    Ken, I agree BP would be a challenge here, much less z7. I'm having a bit of trouble having my Spanish Beauty (Madame Gregoire Staechelin) get really going. I thought it might be a good substitution for BP but it really hasn't taken off so far. I may be cooking it here as in too hot.

    I do have Souv de Madame LV, Francois Juranville, Mel, and Emman de Mouchy.

    I think Spanish Beauty or Emm de Mouchy would be your better choice. I guess Emm is really Irene Bonnet which is fine because it reblooms.


  • 3 years ago

    Thank you so much for all the info. BP will just be a dream. I need to do a little research on some of these suggestions. A rose climbing a big tree is all new territory for me. I'm excited to give it a go (this spring).

  • 3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago
    1. I would suggest Ceske Praci Cest.... extremely vigorous and climbs nicely into branches. With maturity it may give an additional Fall bloom, but the first flush is quite long. Beautiful rose with grateat BS resistance.
  • 3 years ago

    For some reason, I cant edit my post. Please ignore the FLarge Flowered designation! this is a small, tightly packed flower along the size of Mels Heritage or Marie Pavie. I should add my own pics to HMF. Love this rose!

  • 3 years ago


    Please come out to So. CA and see the one at Descanso gardens. They used to have a HUGE monster one all along the fencing at the entrance. Think Sleeping Beauty thorn hedge. I grew it once. Its formidable with big thick canes that grow stiffly up to the sky. Its a wrestling match to train them. You need Real Estate to grow this rose. It could easily cover a 2 story house wall. Descanso has theirs on a tall curved wall surrounding a Spanish style fountain. The perfect flowers smile down as you sit and enjoy the water's music. They only bloom a short time every spring.

    I'll try to get some pictures put up this year. Plenty of cold weather roses I cant grow so I feel for you.

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