I've edited my post 3 times to have more spaces, etc.!! Why does it get all run -together?!

Logic Faron you are using logic. More often contractors are using money when determining a home plan. Where the ground freezes ya need a basement to help keep pipes from freezing. In Kentucky/Texas/Florida an occasional POSSIBLE storm does not make the cost worth the value. We have lived in many different states and most did not have a basement. Neighbors built 10 years ago and they chose to build a cheaper 'safe room' for storms vs a full basement in their retirement home. New technology makes the 'frozen pipes' issue a non factor these days. My dad lived just north of the VA there in Fargo. The house had never flooded, never took on water. BUT one year he noticed commotion at the neighbors. They were shoring up their basement walls. Dad had his inspected. Unnoticed to his naked eye they were buckling. He had to have them all 'shored up'. Truth is in all the years we've had a basement, heard sirens, watched storms blow by we have RARELY headed for the basement for shelter. Even with the uptick in weather issues statics aren't with ya Faron!!

I can't ever remember a time when I was so concerned about safety during a storm that I needed to go to the basement. I've lived in homes with and without basements. My part of the country seems to be in a relatively - safe weather - area. Oh we have flooding, rain and snow storms, power outages, excessive heat and a rare tornado touching down briefly.

My current home does not have a basement and it's one of the reasons we chose it. My area has a high water table combined with heavy clay soil which can cause difficulties. We had to have a French drain and sump pump installed in our last home due to water infiltration. We also excavated around part of the perimeter to improve drainage. The day our sump failed we had 4 inches of water in the basement. Then we installed a back-up sump paired with a marine battery.

Had we stayed we would have added a whole house generator. I'm quite content to live in a home without a basement although we do have a whole house generator here.

My sister and BIL in Buffalo are, of course, dealing with all kinds of blizzard related issues, but last year they had water coming in one of the walls of the basement, so they had to have those redone, another sump pump put in, the floor redone, so it was a lot of work on a post WWII Cape Cod style home.

Yes, I wish we had at least a walkout basement. it would give us so much more space. But dealing with a crawl space is a huge PITA, too. We have to make sure the vents are closed in the winter, drip the faucets, and we may need to look at encapsulation. We have a vapor barrier but probably need more. Overall, the homes here are not too well insulated, regardless of when they were built.

When we have the rare tornado warning, we have to go to the main hall bath since that is a central room without a window. Rounding up the cats and going in there is not too easy.

Yeah, basements can be a PITA depending on the geology of the land the home is built on. The first house we bought had a wet basement at times - it wasn't a walkout. The last three homes we've owned were all completely dry with a nicely finished lower level. Our first lake home was also dry though we definitely had to keep a dehumidifier running in the basement in the summer to keep it from being too humid. Our second lake home has had basement water issues which we knew when we bought it because we looked at it right after a rainstorm. We installed rain gutters which corrected the problem. However we run two 70 pint dehumidifiers all summer to prevent musty odor in the lower level which has a living area, two bedrooms and a bath. We also run a dehumidifier at home because we have a grand piano in our lower level and need to keep the humidity under control. It's comfortable without running it but not good for the piano.

We head for the basement at least once a year during severe thunderstorms or when there are tornado warnings. Once we had straight line winds with many down trees around our house but fortunately not on it. Another time we did have a large oak tree crash onto the house but fortunately didn't break through the roof. This past summer we had trees down on our detached garage but not on the house.

As I mentioned in the other thread, I haven't yet accepted the idea of buying a home in SC (where we want to go during MN winters) that has a dirt crawl space. I will need to do a lot more research to come to grips with that. At some point I'll start a new thread on that topic.

SO interesting to hear these opinions!

DW & I decided long ago ( married in Oct '87! ), that we weren't gonna buy an older home; old low-capacity wiring, bad insulation, old plumbing etc., etc., Etc....... Basement was a MUST.

Ground-water issues are real here too. In this house ( built in '96 ), I tamped-down a "Yard +" of black dirt to restore the slope away from house. The dirt settles so bad near foundations within the first few years.

Oh my achin' back!!!

.....and I did that 20+ years ago!!!! This past June marked 26 years in this place! I think this abode will hold value ok?! Homes across the street on the water usually sell for around $500K+. Homes similar to ours.... maybe $320k- $340k.

Faron

I live where cycles of hurricanes are common every ten years or so and have since childhood slept in a basement during cat 2/3 hurricanes. In the last five years a few powerful tornado like storms have hit my small town as well. We immediately went to the basement upon the warning sirens.

I'm another that likes a house with a basement. Our lake house doesn't (the ground is mostly solid rock or sand) and, in recent years, there have been tornadoes nearby. It feels so unsafe. Not sure what the solution is. Digging a family size tornado hole?

Being in TX after childhood in California I have never seen a basement. I have always wanted one for the storage space alone.

No one I have ever known in Texas has a basement. However, when I was a child and we left Texas we lived in Virginia for a few years prior to moving to NYC. There was a basement and a little room down there where my parents had a deep freeze. It was also the 'bomb shelter' and the only emergency supply was a 5 gallon container of peanut butter. My parents were normal rational people, I don't know what they were thinking, I don't think a basement would protect anyone from a bomb.

What I think I know about basements in Alberta.🤠

I like them. They are not the basements I remember when I was growing up.

I believe foundation footings need to be placed below the frost line and that is at least 4 feet. It protects foundations from frost heaving.

Since you’ve gone that far, you may as well build a proper basement. Go for high ceilings. Add infloor heating.

The utility room (hot water heater, furnace and wires and pipes and that kind of stuff) can have a room to themselves and remain protected from freezing.

I believe Alberta requires sump pumps to be installed in all new builds.

I’ve never thought of using my basement to protect me from a bomb😳

I know that a lot of people think that a basement is a perfect spot for deep freezers and laundry rooms. I have both of those things on my main floor. It is more convenient.

I like my basement for parties and card games. And when you have overnight guests.

Basements can double your living space.

A well built basement in colder climates is a necessity in my opinion.

3 katz - Would it be possible to add concrete to the dirt crawl space?

I wouldn't be keen on a dirt crawl space either. When we built our other place in NE PA the builder's plan for the house showed a full, walk out basement. Then we added a one car garage and a den to the other side of the house. We thought both would be on a slab as per the revised plans but someone erred and put a dirt crawl space under the den.

Fortunately it was a fairly deep crawl space where you could easily crawl or even walk hunched over. The builder also installed 2 vents in the concrete wall above grade for ventilation. We had the builder pour concrete through the vents and his crew had to rake and trowel the surface smooth.

Maire

My basement is a catchall, plus the home of my washer, dryer, furnace and water heater. Ive always lived in a house with a basement. Mine is a mess at the moment, and working its way up my to-do list. About one third is a dirt crawl space as well as the area under my den, formerly the garage.

The houses on my stree wee so cheaply built. There is actually a huge rock in my crawl space. They built the house right over it.

Interesting that the NYT had an article about basements

“Even now, entering the basement makes me feel like I am descending into parts of my mind that I didn’t know existed.” A writer remembers his parents’ basement, where his messy thoughts found purpose.

A link to the story, which may be behind a paywall.Parents basement

Been doing some reading - basements are generally contraindicated in most parts of SC due to clay soil and high humidity and high water table in coastal areas. I would think you'd have the same problems with a concrete crawl space that you'd have with a basement. I saw billboards for companies to fix your crawlspace. I guess it's easier to maintain and fix your crawlspace than it is a basement if you aren't very careful where you put one.

My last house sat on top of a hill. We got 101 mph winds and had 38 windows. When the wind blew, we headed for the basement in case one of the windows broke. It was terrifying. Just the noise was deafening. The ceilings were 22' high, a sitting duck. The neighbor told us a story about Valentines Day, when in the middle of the night their roof blew off the house.

Since our house is built into a hill we have a walk out basement. About 900 sq ft are finished the same as the main level of the house, and we have a concrete slab in part of the rest of the basement area. Basements are not common where I live in southern Oregon, and no one that I knew while growing up in California had a basement.

My son has recently purchased a 1930s built home in Portland with a full basement, and is dealing with water issues. Apparently the inspection report that the sellers filled out said that water intrusion was not a problem in the basement, but every time that it rains they are getting substantial water in the basement. (I have not seen for myself, so I'm going by what my son has told me) I'm not sure what to say to him. It seems that the previous owners were not truthful in their statements. Or the basement is receiving an "expected" amount of water, because it is a basement.

My childhood home, an old four square, was built on a slope. It had a walk-out basement and I don't remember any water coming in.

If you live in tornado alley, get a storm shelter outside the house, or let neighbors know that's where you'll be. Basements are known to cave in if a house gets hit. I feel sorry for those in FL because I don't think the land there supports either a basement or cellar.

DS has a steel above ground shelter in his garage. Now I want one even though we have a cellar.

@ terezosa / terriks - If the previous owners lied on the disclosure statement your son can take legal action against the sellers. There is no "expected" or "acceptable" amount of water in a basement.

Your son may have bought the house "as is" or without inspections (Covid housing craziness). Even buying "AS IS" doesn't eliminate the need for the sellers to complete the disclosure and disclose all known defects or issues.

My parents met and married during WWII. My parents built a home in 1963 with a basement that housed a bomb shelter. The bomb shelter was a 12x12 room in one corner of the basement.

I was only 2 when they built the house, so I didn't pay much attention to the construction, but I grew up knowing that this was the bomb shelter and the wall separated it from the rest of the basement was about 2' thick.

Where I live in New Mexico, the frost line only goes 18 inches. This is in the mountains and the record low since I have lived here has been -30. That was of course only once but -10 does happen more often. While we get cold, it does not stay bone chilling cold for a long period of time. When we built, I would have loved to have a basement, but it would have simply cost too much. I still hope to build a root cellar at some point for food storage and plant over-wintering.

I think the cost is an essential part of the discussion. There have been discussions on here about the affordable housing shortage. If we added basements to the cost of a basic home in our area, you would price out those who have the hardest time affording a house. The payoff just would not be worth it, whereas improving insulation can have an affect almost every day. For our house, we did not get a basement but we did upgrade to blown-in insulation for the walls, and our utility consumption is less because of it. Now, if I lived somewhere the frost line was 4 feet, yeah, the extra cost for a basement seems a lot more doable.

I might think differently if I lived in tornado alley. Our hometown only suffered one devistating tornado that I can remember. I remember reading about people who were huddled in their home when the tornado ripped the roof off. I don't even know if we have a siren warning system, but people were not prepared and didn't think to go into their basements. Their wasn't much time (6 minutes) from when the weather station issued the warning and the tornado touched down. Destroyed 30+ homes, severe damage to another 30+ homes, hit at 2:00 in the afternoon when most people were at work. No lives lost.

When I lived in California I didn't worry about storms at all. It never rained and in 30 years we had 1/2 a dozen true thunder storms. I worried most about wild fires (much more than even earthquakes). Had one earthquake that cracked a few tiles in a hallway in my house. Had 3 times that the fires came close enough that we got the reverse 911 call to prepare to evacuate. I was lucky that the fires never reached my home, but they got close enough that I could see the flames. Closest was only a block from my house.

I don't think basements aren't much use when you are facing fire or earthquake.

Hi Faron, sure hope you’re receiving inciteful information. Are you giving thoughts to building?

A previous poster is right, in severe climates where a foundation must be at least 4 feet deep, excavating further to create a basement is common.

We live in northern IL so our weather is similar. Where I grew up on an Iowa farm, the root celar was where families went during severe storms. Here we go into a SW basement corner - have done that a couple times. Never experienced significant damage.

When we lived in Colorado, due to expansive soil, our home perimeter was required to have a 4’ watershed. This was accomplished with weed-block fabric topped with crushed stone. Restricted to drip irrigation within the space.

Ours is a full, standard depth, traditionsl basement. We have foundation tile, proper grading and good drainage. All downspouts discharge at least 4’ away from the foundation - mostly pop-ups in the lawm. Window wells are covered. Our sump pump has an automatic back-up. IF we were to build again likely would excavate deep (10’) and construct with all-around brick veneer - (12”) foundation. Storm tie the rafters like Florida hurricane code.

For most of my life I lived in Tornado Alley or nearby and because of low water tables and soil conditions basements were rare to nonexistent although there were times I would have wanted one anyway. I have been through 3 (maybe 4) tornados, 2 stronger ones touching down within three or four blocks and one (an EF 0) a direct hit. I was a baby during the first one but remember stories of my Dad cutting trees in the road trying to get home to check on us. The second confirmed one did a lot of damage in our neighborhood, but my house only had one shutter blown off. No electricity for several days and I remember going to sleep to the cimforting sounds of chainsaws… I lived on a corner lot, but 3 of the 4 ways out were blocked by downed trees. The last one was the EF2 direct hit in the midfle of the night with no warnings and I wouldn’t have even known about it until we noticed some shingles missing and the chimney cap was found across the street, NWS confirmed the EF0.

Now that we live in an area without tornados, we do have a basement (or really walkout terrace level) but our house is on a slope in rocky soils and water is not an issue at all. I love the extra living space, guest rooms and storage it provides.

I have never lived in a house without a basement. When I was a child, the basement was the ”rec room” or playroom. In my first house as an adult, our basement was unfinished but the laundry was down there. It was not a pleasant space. In our second house where we lived for 20+ years, we had two large finished rooms in the basement, a small laundry room, and a utility room. Our kids spent a lot of time there, playing video games, watching TV, doing arts and crafts, etc. It was the one room in the house that could be messy without mom complaining. We also had a treadmill and a pool table down there. When we first bought the house, we did have some water issues, so we had a french drain installed, which kept it dry.

Current house has a finished basement that was the former owner’s office (she was a therapist). It had a ”waiting room”, larger main room, and half bath. And a separate utility/storage room. Now, the waiting room is our exercise space, and the larger room is DH’s home office/man cave. He is messier than our 3 kids were, so I just avert my eyes when I have to go into his space. This house also has had anti-flooding work done, can’t remember if it was a french drain or something else but we have never had water issues.

At my house in NY, it is so stinking cold several months a year. The cellar is not heated, but the hvac system is down there and that produces enough heat that the lowest it ever gets on our subzero days is 55 degrees. Most of the time it is in the upper 60s. I love not having to worry about frozen pipes, I love having all mechanicals down there and easy access, I love that my laundry room is down there. Zero water intrusion issues. It is clean, dry, great storage.

I would guess 95% of homes built in NY have basements. When we started looking for our retirement home in Delaware, I was surprised most houses were on crawl spaces or slabs. The house we ultimately bought has a cellar.

Delaware gets its fair share of cold weather. Not generally as cold as NY of course, but below freezing is not uncommon. This latest cold snap brought a lot of frozen pipes in that area. Again, my cellar stays a constant 65 degrees so I am grateful.

Cellars aren't cheap to build. 10 years ago in NY ours cost $55,000 so I shudder to think what it would cost today. Makes sense to me why production builders would skip that expense if they can get away with it.

Growing up in MN, I was agog when I learned that some houses don't have basements! Our current walk out is also our front entry and office and behind that, a finished mudroom which is also our side entrance. I never think of it as a basement since the underground walls are in a back mudroom closet and below the side office windows. Reading the thread last night, I asked DH if we have a "sump pump?" It turns out that in the coat closet under the stairs, there is a "sump". Who knew! DH also managed to convince the inspector (DH and I built the house) that since the house sits on a slope, we wouldn't need a "pump" for it. So, thanks for the basement discussions. We have one, masquerading as our first floor.

I should probably a new Sump-pump! You HAVE TO have one in the Red-River Valley! It's a 10+ yr-old Wayne 3/4hp Stainless-steel body unit. Technically....it's beefier than needed, & that's why it's still going strong!! When it has to pump water, it's not working very hard, which is precisely the point!! Our house is only 4' in the ground, & it runs frequently in rainy periods. My gutters go out 6'.

We run the sump-pump-hose out along the driveway to get the output well-away from the house.

Faron