I love you photos and this rose, Jeri.

Thanks Jeri, this makes me even more excited for my baby Mel that just went in the ground!

I love my mail also MEL Pictures of yours I would love to see full bush pictures of yours sometime.

Really beautiful; thanks for the photos!

Aside from whether I could find 'Mel's Heritage' in Europe (I haven't looked) is the question of whether it would grow for me. (Pause.) Oooh, I looked: it's listed as a Hybrid Wichuriana! I can grow Wichurianas! Well, more or less.

Soil is really a significant issue for me. I've been down in the shade garden putzing around cleaning the last couple of days, and noticing how little actual dirt there is there: mostly there's a thin skin of earth over decaying sedimentary rock. The initial terracing we did years ago helped; still, it's amazing that roses will grow there at all. The rose class makes a considerable difference. In the yard, 'Brenda Colvin', offspring of 'Kiftsgate', is romping through two large trees, while 'Rose-Marie Viaud', Multiflora hybrid, next to it, is struggling to survive, in spite of all I can do to acidify its soil. Well, about 'Mel's Heritage', I may look it up: it could go to join 'Glenn Dale', 'Awakening', 'Francois Poisson', 'May Queen', 'Edmond Proust' and a few others. These are all wonderful roses!

Melissa, if you ever find Mel's Heritage here in Europe, PLEASE let me know!!!!!!!! I would LOVE to have this splendid rose!

The ground that you describe in your shade garden is exactly what woodland ground (for soil I cannot call it really) is like here.

Bart, the shade garden is an old slide zone, where all the soil ended up well downhill off the property, and we've been playing catchup since we've been here. Is this what happened to your woods? One of the best things that happened to it during our time here was back around 2010 when we had a very wet winter. The field above the shade garden, where our neighbors had been keeping some livestock, had lost all its grass cover from the trampling. The loose dirt, well mixed with manure, descended to the shade garden, where we cut little channels to lead it where needed. It added a considerable amount of soil and organic matter to the garden. I remember keeping a close eye on the looming ground above the garden, ready to run if it looked like sliding down on top of our land, and me. But it didn't.

I'll keep you in mind if I ever find the rose. Do you grow any Wichurianas? I love this class.

About soil . . .

This whole area from the Oxnard Plain below us to the hillside above us is ancient sea bed. Rock here and there is sandstone, and all of it is full of ancient seashells. Our water is -- no surprise -- highly alkaline. A Board member from "Pleasant Valley Mutual Water Co" once said to me:

"You don't DRINK this water, do you, lady?"

So any rose that can't flourish in such conditions doesn't stay here. (Nothing Muliflora, for instance, unless you just LIKE white leaves!)

So anything that has dark, shiny foliage here -- well, that gets my vote!

Vaporvac -- I could post full bush photos here, but the easiest way for you to see what it does is to look at the images posted on HelpMeFind . . .

'Mel's Heritage' rose photos (helpmefind.com)

Of all the photos posted there, keep in mind that the plants I have pictured are very likely the oldest ones shown, and show the most maturity -- because my plant was taken as a cutting from the one in the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden, which came directly from Paul.

Thank you jerry.. I poured over those pictures Before unbelievable it can look like that year after year. Lisa's was the same. Sorry for that for the misspelling

I grew Mel's Heritage on my back fence when I lived in California. Nice rose, but I did not get nearly the repeat some growers get. Not sure why. It's probably not hardy in my new zone 5 garden so I will admire Jeri's pictures instead of trying to produce my own.

Just theorizing, but repeat definitely depends on water, and possibly on fertilizer, if soils are poor. Selective pruning to encourage new growth might make a difference.

Oh,IMO repeat definitely depends on water! Some of my mature climbers that have been in place for years do repeat in a year like this where we had good rain back in fall/winter,but otherwise...I think that one of my problems with getting floribundas and Noisettes to establish is that ,since I have to water them, they keep on wanting to bloom instead of grow.

Melissa, I'll get back to you on the Wichuranas . I'm sure I do have several,but I'm not "science-y" like you are about plants, and don't remember easily their categories sometimes.

OK, here's a list of my ramblers:

Wichuranas

Hiawatha

Alexander Girault

Henri Barruet

Paul Transon

Ethel

Multifloras:

Seven Sisters

Gruss an Gemerschausen (I think)

Muliflora Carnea (don't know if it's still alive;if so, doesn't bloom)

Miscellaneous:

Mannington Mauve (love this-have about six , and a seventh one in a pot)

Louis Mon Ami

Mosel

Laure Davoust (classified by HMF as Multiflora or noisette ,found rose, etc.

Scarman's Himalayan Musk

Not sure if that's all...if so, I should get more, lol!

Hmmm......Bart....would you care to do a CUTTINGS SWAP???? I've done these before by mail (perhaps better not to let the post office know exactly what it is you're mailing) with very decent success. I'd be interested in a number of your Wichurianas. In return I could offer cuttings of other Wichuriana varieties, and perhaps one or two others that might interest you. It would depend on what kind of growth they've made by early-mid fall, say October. Are you interested?

In theory, yes,but in reality I can't take on any new roses now until I get rid of my potted ones; it's all just too much for me. But I'd be glad to send you cuttings ; maybe in future ,if I ever get things more under control, you can "make it up to me", lol. Actually, if you wanted, I'd be willing to give you my potted Mannington Mauve #7,only it's pretty big. Yes, I'm desperate to find spots for stuff that are within the limited area that I can reasonable keep watered; the Garden Consolidation Project is going to require that I move some potentially BIG roses. I think I'll have to move Morning Blush,too, for example, because I think I need space for a tree in it's present spot,and that rose , according to HMF, can be as rambunctious as a rambler. Here's one comment from HMF: " I plan to move it to a 6 foot fence, as it grows like a huge thorny octopus. ... It is very thorny so am putting it on a perimeter fence". I don't have such a spot, but am hoping to put in a new Paulownia and could grow it up that . But then where does MMauve go? It's not like I have run out of space, it's just that I don't want to try colonizing more "wilderness" areas for now. I've GOT to make this garden more manageable, and absolutely MUST exercize some kind of discipline now, a thing I never did in the past. In theory, I COULD bare-root it (once winter arrives, natch) and cut it back...And, also naturally, it would be a gift; I'd only ask you to pay for the postage. Ramblers tend to be pretty tough, so it could work. (for example, wrapping the bare-root mass in a dampened cloth,inserting it into a plastic bag,leaving the upper part outside of the plastic, and then boxing it up. Throw in some cuttings from others that may interest you-though for now Henri Barruet is too young to be cut back I think). I could send you a photo of the packed rose to see if you are satisfied before sending it off. Or I can just send you cuttings... Let me know what you think!

Bart, first, thanks! Second, I'll have to think about, oh, your hassles, mainly, and, how can I pay you? I ask this as a practical question. Actually, we have a checkbook on our local account, rarely used, but I could send you a check. (Local mail can be exquisitely slow.) The cuttings sound great, and I would be delighted to reciprocate whenever you like. I did quite a few cutting exchanges, some by mail, back a dozen or fifteen years ago, so I know it can work. Ramblers in my experience root easily.

I'm wondering--I don't know--whether it's a good idea to train a rose up a Paulownia tree. How strong is the wood? Is it flexible, brittle, are parts of the tree prone to coming down in a storm? This skepticism is based on my experience training the huge rambler 'Treasure Trove' up a mature black locust (30' rose in 40'-45' tree): along came a storm, and next day the tree was no more, having snapped off at about six feet above the ground. What a mess it made. A mature native oak, now, that would be a different story. But I would look into the character of Paulownias. I'm particularly suspicious of them given their rapid growth, which I don't associate with stout wood.

Cuttings I'm definitely interested in: 'Paul Transom', 'Alexandre Girault'. 'Mannington Mauve': does it grow in alkaline conditions? if so, I'd be interested. Perhaps it would be easier to send cuttings than a plant, unless you're actually keen to get rid of one of yours. Also, SDA has a horrible record on delivering to us up here in the country: frequently, they don't bother, which is terrible for living things stuck in a warehouse and then perhaps returned (cuttings can go by regular mail). I'm also interested in 'Louis Mon Ami', since R. arvensis is native here, though scentlessness is a negative point. But a R. arvensis hybrid would likely do well: Ayrshires thrive in our garden. 'Ethel' I'm not sure about: do you like it? Does it grow well for you? It's a maybe for me. So, that's my dream list.

I hope you get to wanting more roses, as I have some nice ones I can offer.

Thanks for answering, Melissa. I can't really deal with this now-I have to do my water-bringing trips; in any case, we can do nothing until it cools down.

Paulownia wood is, I believe, quite strong-used for making furniture.

I agree about the timing, Bart: this is definitely not the season. I think second half of October will be about right for cuttings, when the weather starts to turn cool and rainy. You should be largely free of watering chores by then, too.

Hi again,Melissa. My DS has an IBAN number, so you could just transfer the money into that at your bank. He also sells a lot of stuff that he doesn't want anymore on Internet, so has experience with sending stuff.

As far as sending it goes, I think you said your daughter lives in the city? If she's OK with it, I could send the plant to her,either timing it carefully so it will arrive when she is planning to visit you or vice-versa. Or, who knows? being YOUR daughter she might well be able to pot it up herself! But think it over; if you prefer cuttings, that's fine, too. Giving the plant away would mean one less BIG rose for me to worry about placing next fall, but I realize it is perhaps slightly riskier to send a plant rather than cuttings, and would cost more. However, I do have one experience with plant-sending by private individuals. A very kind gentleman on this forum had obtained a rose with which he wanted help for identification; it was theorized that it might be Plum Perfect. He had rooted several cuttings. I asked him if he'd be willing to do a trade; he said that, no, he didn't need any more plants, but that he'd gift me with one, if I paid the postage. I said "fine!". He asked if I wanted him to send it bare-rooted or in a pot, I chose pot. The shipping was only about 18 euros from Germany,and it wasn't a tiny pot, either; I don't recall the exact size,but it was something like 16-18 mm wide , with lots of lovely,smooth white rocks in the bottom for drainage. It was in great shape. Now, who knows about what the rates are like within Italy, things are so kooky that it could be more expensive to ship within Italy than from Germany to Italy! but I'm just sayin'...

The truly giant ramblers like T Trove CAN make a mature oak their b#tch! I had a Paul's Himalayan Musk growing up an oak, and a huge wind storm broke off it's main upper branches-the weight of the rose was too much for it. Now, this tree is in a very exposed spot,and this P'sHM was planted back in the day when I had no experience ,so it was planted UNDER the tree,thereby causing serious root competition I think. Now, if I want a rambler in a tree, I plant it well away from the base, so when it gets big it's just being suppoted by the outer branches,not the main ones. Also M Mauve is not one of the super-giants likeP'sHM, TTrove, Kiftsgate,etc.,nor is Morning Blush.

Oh, and speaking of big ramblers-do NOT believe the info on HMF about Louis Mon Ami! It gets huge. "Can be used mixed with other climbing or shrubby roses, a little bit like a Clematis." NO WAY!