I think the goal is a rhythm. You want some repeating and some contrasting shapes and colors. They don't have to be the same plants. It will also look good if you have a bunch of shrubs that look pretty similar from a vantage point (ie from your window or from the street) that are pretty similar in shape and color, but have different flowers at different times of the year.

I would repeat at least 1 type. Perhaps three the same for cohesion and the rest mixed for interest.

I hardly ever do repeating patterns...and consequently, my garden often looks a shambolic mess. My daughter, otoh, is a very strict repeater and, to be fair, her gardens do look considerably more...'designed' than my colourful, but chaotic collage. I think you probably know the answer here (Sigrid and Prairie certainly do and give excellent advice)...and, as you are basically starting afresh, there is no reason not to be considering and thoughtful instead of the usual 'stuff it in where there is a space' form of horticulture I indulge in (and, I suspect, being my garden twin, you do too).

PM2 your last line is too funny - that's one reason why I don't usually add trees or shrubs - I don't want to commit to something that big and not have it do well lol! But as you probably know I have been trying to add more shrubs to my garden the last year or so, although admittedly I'm going with lots of compact varieties - still can't commit to big! :)

But for this area I am going larger, for privacy. (But even here, 8 feet is enough lol, so some people still consider that small!)

How do I say this clearly... the street side of the shrub border will be a straight line - I want to maximize the room *inside* the yard for me, but also need to be absolutely aware of sight lines coming out of my driveway in a blind curve. So I am trying to keep the shrubs to no wider than 5-6 feet (less if possible) to maximize my garden area inside, and any mature sizes need to be kept a certain distance from the road. This means the trunks/bases of the shrubs will not necessarily be in a straight line, but mature sizes will line up street-side.

So whatever I plant, I am going from the narrowest to the widest in a row, so inside the yard will likely be a slanting inward line or curve, toward the corner of my yard. Does that make sense? (I should attempt a little diagram....)

I've spent quite some time researching plant choices, but unfortunately didn't get as much feedback here on GW as I had hoped to. Also, now that I've made a list, many of these shrubs are hard to find. So annoying when you read articles and marketing material about how great something is, and then you can't find one lol! Or if I do find one, it's six inches tall haha! So last night I started looking into tall annuals as well, lol, for privacy while the shrubs grow.

I'm not too worried about fall color here as I have some already, and am planning more, in my garden beds. I did have a viburnum purchased for this area, as well as a deciduous holly, but that was before the trees were taken out and I don't know if they will now work here in all this new sun (and therefore soon-to-be drier soil). And lol for any pairs needed (like hollies) the gentleman usually gets stuck in an out-of-the-way spot while the lady gets the prime location!

Sigrid you are spot-on. I want some contrast in color, form, texture etc, but I want some uniformity so it doesn't look like I just plopped stuff there. And I don't necessarily want that uniformity by planting the exact same plant, but I'm thinking maybe I should have at least two of the same thing in this border - and even then, perhaps not exactly the same shrub but two things that are, for example, the same height and the same form and - maaaybee the same color - but different texture; like one pyramidal arborvitae and one pyramidal chamaecyparis, or maybe one straight colummar yew and one straight columnar holly, of the same(ish) color, or possibly one green and one gold.

I've always had such a hard time designing any garden bed, - it's just not my strong point - and this feels harder because it seems so much more of a commitment than smaller perennials lol. And again, I think I've made some choice and then I can't find them. I'm beginning to realize why, in the wake of so many trees being taken down in the neighborhood in the last few months by the electric company, most of my (non-gardening) neighbors have just gone with the usual fortress row of arborvitaes! It's easy, it's quick and there's not much thought or planning effort involved lol!

Sigrid, your comment about flowering made me realize that, while I started this mission with many flowering shrubs in mind, I have now got almost exclusively evergreens on my list. I think that evolved mostly because of size (in particular width) and I am leaning toward narrower stuff to maximize this newly-made gardening area, but perhaps I need to re-visit some flowering shrubs. And if they ARE wider than what I wanted for the border, I need to think of them as part of the GARDEN, not just part of the BORDER behind it..... in other words, I need to think more about incorporating the border into the new garden space... Ugh, more research and more thinking and more planning, lol!

:)

Dee

LOL, rosa, you posted while I was typing and yes, you are absolutely right - I too am a plopper, putting stuff "where there is space", even though at the time I insist to myself it's only temporary to get it in the ground till I find the right spot for it. Yeah right, lol. Most temporarily planted stuff has been temporarily planted for years here, if not decades, lol.

Another part of my non-repeating gardening (and this is the reason why I have none of the highly-vaunted "drifts" in my garden beds, even though I agree they look great in photos) is because I want so many different things, and don't want to waste limited gardening space on two or more of the same thing!

And I'm struggling with that in this border as well. I've already gone from a week ago thinking, "wow, look at allllll this new space I have to garden!" to "well, it's only 30 feet and you really can't put THAT many shrubs in 30 feet, so do you really want to plant TWO of the same thing?" :)

So that is why I am now pondering if my plan of using two *similar* things (height, form, maybe color) will work as well as using two of the exact shrubs....

:)

Dee

So, I am wondering why you don't go for a single type of highly prunable shrubs which can be used as a backdrop for the more colourful plants you enjoy. Like the absolutely classic yew. Or, failing that, how about something which will generate blossom, fruit and good autumn colour...such as aronia, amelanchier or some of the ribes/rubus clan.

In the UK, hedging is practically de rigeur...seen everywhere and vastly preferred to fences. Everything, from osmanthus to laurel...including the various 'tapestry' hedges of fruit and berries, such as elder, quickthorn and guelder rose. Can be anything from 6inches to 16 feet...there are numerous nurseries which only grow hedging plants...so much is the demand. As a rule, the aesthetics are often less important than the primary use of delineating boundaries/keeping stock in...and we have a really interesting history of hedgelaying (which varies from region to region).

I LOVE a good hedge.

Well first of all, I don't want *anything* that needs to be pruned lol!! I am absolutely terrified of pruning anything and avoid it at all costs! :)

Also, since I do have this new, sunny space, I would like to have a variety because there are a few things I like for this purpose. And I do like the look of a mixed shrub border. So many homeowners around here have what I call the fortress look - a straight row of nothing but arborvitaes or chamies - which are nice, but I just don't like the look of a long tall (often too tall) row of them surrounding a small property. I'm not so averse to a short hedge of one thing - there is a hedge of spireas between my neighbor and that is quite lovely in bloom - but when it's tall and monotonous I just don't like it so much.

Perhaps if I had more land and more space *in front* of a hedge to put in a lovely garden, I would go with the backdrop of all one thing. I agree in the right setting that can really set off a garden very nicely - a nice canvas, if you will, to make the garden stand out. But because the space is relatively small, I want to go with more variation and again, make it part of the garden as opposed to just a backdrop. That's the vision I started out with and then kind of got sidetracked into the evergreen (although still varied) backdrop idea.

I did originally have some aronia and amelanchier, yews, and other things on my list (it's here in this post) and I still may think about them. I just am concerned with a few of the plants on my original list because of differing size descriptions, or the variation in size is too much. When something gets 3 to 6 feet wide, well sometimes it's perfect at 3 feet but too big at 6, etc. That's another reason why I'm going smaller than not - these MUST stay below the power lines and behind the sight lines of my driveway, and I don't trust some of the size descriptions. Don't want to put in something only to have to rip it out again in a few years.

I'm getting there. Slowly lol. I think I will revisit my original list with some of my new thoughts in mind and see what I come up with.

In the meantime I have visited two garden centers, one of which had an extensive list of possibilities, many of them on MY list, on their website. Neither place had one single shrub I was considering. So of course I did what any good gardener would do. I spent too much money on OTHER things I really don't need and don't have room for. I do believe my pot ghetto is starting to come back from the dead.... But who can resist a good fall sale?

:)

Dee

it's only 30 feet and you really can't put THAT many shrubs in 30 feet,

I am so 'jelly' of you Dee i.e. you have 30 whole feet to play with. Stop complaining! ;)

Like HU-etc I lalso love a good hedge. And of course you have so very many choices. REmember @diggerdee zone 6 CT, with "great power comes great responsibility"...don't blow it!

lol geez, rouge, thanks. Like I wasn't already feeling the pressure!

Trust me, as much as I miss my shade and as much as I hate being exposed, it is indeed exciting to have this new sunny space to work with. But I've never really gardened in full sun before, and I'm a very cowardly gardener lol, as anyone who's been on the forums a long time knows. I'm afraid of commitment, I'm afraid of big shrubs - let's not even mention trees lol! - and I'm afraid of - as you say - blowing it lol!

And I have to say that my visions of a lovely shrub border are quickly coming down to earth as I get in these 8-inch tall plants by mail-order lol. Or see the prices on the larger ones at the local places. This is definitely going to take some time!

:)

Dee

Dee, I am one of the most impatient gardeners and yet in this case I think I would wait to buy and plant until 2025. This allows you to contemplate (stew ;)) over the winter, to plan your purchases. And of course there will be lots better selection at your nearby brick and mortar nurseries come the spring.

Repeat. Shrub borders need cohesion, and that comes from repeating elements -- since 30' isn't a huge area and you want privacy, the repeating element needs to be a singular type of shrub. Pick one that you know will thrive there and plant in multiples -- doesn't have to be a straight line. Fill in with other shrubs and perennials to add interest. Always start with the "bones" first.

Paper and pencil are your friend here. Start sketching things out to scale. That is going to be very helpful for plant spacing and what you want your pattern to look like. (again -- repeating element does NOT have to be planted in a straight line or even next to one another).

You are going to have to whittle your list of wants down. You just can't jam all the shrubs you're considering into a 30' border. From your list of considerations, you should start whittling down based on plant needs first -- once you have shortened list of contenders based on what will likely do well there (right plant, right place...), then start choosing the ones you like best of that list and go from there. You also need to think about whether you want your repeating element to be evergreen or decidous. You could also have a secondary repeating elements (say, one evergreen + one deciduous type).

I stand by what I said in the other post -- I'd stay away from broad-leafed evergreens. They can be glorious in bloom, but when they look bad they look BAD. They are quite finicky, and if the conditions aren't just right you're going to be sorely disappointed. You'd do much better to stick with yews or something in the conifer family (have you considered arborvitae?)

mxk I have five different arborvitaes on my list! :) Thanks for that post. Okay so I have a few more questions for you, since I value your opinion

So, in your opinion, should that repeating element be exactly the same thing? I.e. the same arborvitae cultivar, or the same holly cultivar? Or could it be two very similar but different shrubs? Like a 10-foot tall, pyramidal, chartreuse-green, five-foot wide cultivar of say an arborvitae and a holly? Is that similarity enough to provide uniformity, or do you think it should be the exact same cultivar?

Secondly, how many times would you repeat in this small space? I'm thinking I can probably put about five shrubs here without overcrowding. I feel like if I do, say three of the same, starting with the repeat, it will look too... IDK how to say it... too much like one holly, one arborvitae, the same holly, another arborvitae... gosh I can't think of the word I'm looking for but it just won't look right. So would you perhaps do two of the same shrub, and then the other three, starting with the non-repeat? Goodness, why can't I find my words today?

Here, pretend this is the row. Would you do:

repeat - non-repeat - repeat - non-repeat - repeat

or

non-repeat - repeat - non-repeat - repeat - non-repeat

Would you use different forms/heights for the non-repeaters, or try to keep the whole row more uniform in appearance?

Thank you so much for your input!

:)

Dee

P.S. rouge, it's *awfully* hard to resist those fall sales! I've already bought a few impulse purchases, but I will probably wait to plant them, and if I don't use them here, I can put them elsewhere. I am a master at stewing lol!

Repeating is not the same as uniformity. Personally, I don't like plants arranged in straight lines so I wouldn't do either of your examples above. In a small area like yours, I'd stick with the same cultivar. Larger areas can have the repeating element be the shape or texture rather than the plant itself, but you don't have the luxury of abundant space here.

MAKE SKETCHES. You're taking stabs at this without having a clear picture of it, sketching things out is going to help you immensely. Will a grouping of multiple plants on one side with 1-2 counterpoints on the other side look best? Will straight-line planting look best? (not my thing but you may like it). Will a big casual drift look best? Draw out patterns of different groupings to see what is the most pleasing to you, keep at it until you hit it - sometimes it takes a bit of time. Work with shapes and sizes (plant spacing) not specific shrubs; the shrub choice can come later (based on that list you are going to work on whittling down).

Hi there! Sorry - I just haven't had time to respond but I am very appreciative of your input!

I guess I should have said "cohesivenss" instead of uniformity. I just want the area to look like nice and all go together, and not look like stuff was just plopped in there. And my patterns don't need to be straight lines, necessarily, that was just the order they would go in in the border. I can only type in straight lines though lol, so I can't show placement! :)

And actually, I have been doing exactly that - looking at shapes and sizes and not specific shrubs. I have sat out there for hours playing with different layouts, shapes, sizes, etc. My neighbor must think I'm weird - maybe SHE'LL put in a shrub border first so she doesn't have to watch me sitting out there staring at things, writing, and measuring endlessly lol.

The specific shrubs on my list come in because those are the shrubs that fit those shapes and sizes. And I certainly don't intend to get ALL of them lol! Those are just some of the choices that fit the requirements - height, size, soil, sun, zone, color etc.

So ok, you think I should repeat the same cultivar. That is very helpful,and I think you are right. And I think the repeating element would be a pyramidal or columnar evergreen. I'm just having a hard time deciding the layout in this small space... (triangle would be the same, shrubs *perhaps* different - don't think I want to repeat the rounded shrubs... that might be just too repetitive. But would all different shrubs, again, look too random? Ah, decisions! How I hate them lol!)

Or a columnar shape instead of pyramidal, with rounded shrubs (I know it looks oval lol, but for a quick sketch it was the best choice I had for a columnar plant, lol)

:)

Dee