I know, David. I used to look (longingly) at her inventory and website A LOT. Worse though, is the depressingly familiar tale of bandit capitalism. Beloved business snapped up by investors (asset strippers), with no clue about anything other than the acquisition of profit. Staff feel devalued, corners are cut, business fails (and if the new owner turns out to be a bit of a bully...)

Are you talking about the current own, Sarah I think? I know the actual Annie sold it a few years ago.

When I was there in mid-winter 2011, I had never seen a nursery with such a huge crowd shopping and such an on-going buzz and chatter about rare plants. It was how I imagine nurseries must be after the Chelsea flower Show in the UK! Alas, I doubt I will ever see it again, at least in this country. I don't think 'generation smart phone/tiktok' will ever have the patience for advanced horticulture like those mid 30s (age) hipsters of 2011. The world has changed A LOT, and a lot for the worse, since the era of 'social media' and 'smart phones', but I digress.

It's possible this is similar to what happened to Rarefind. (edit: it appears to be a difference set of circumstances after all) Hank died - and OMG it must be said, he looked awful in the year or so before he died. It's a shame he didn't plan for the nursery's future, but, whatever...the majority of people just aren't able to intellectually process the likelihood of their own mortality. The existing staff actually did an amazing job of scraping by for a few years with, probably, minimal financial support from his heirs. I know they sold mature rhodies from huge swaths of the 4 acre display garden...for much less than they were worth...to make ends meet. You were there one spring and the next spring, 3/4 of an acre was just upturned sandy soil with the now barren Jersey pines remaining. However then it finally sold around 2015 to... basically a guy who wasn't really into plants, he was just into businesses that make money. And when Hank's right hand man in all matters horticultural, Ron R., was let go in spring 2016, I knew the proverbial 'writing was on the wall'. (I found out because I wanted to send him cuttings of a Sequoia sempervirens I scouted from a high valley in its native range, that had, according to my climate modeling, been in the single digits quite recently) I don't mean to disparage the young woman's background, but he - a guy who had a BS in Hort and had been on plant hunting expeditions in Sichuan and was an very active hybridizer of at least one genera of plants - was replaced by a high school graduate who was 'active in 4H'. Huge cost cutting move.

I haven't been there in...3 years maybe...but last time I was there it was such a shadow of its former self. TBH I'm glad they are still 'kicking' and trying to serve new niches like native plants, so, even if it survives in name only, it's still a place people can buy plants other than a big box...which is a good thing. The land under Annie's is hugely more valuable, so I don't expect it will even linger at this point.

Yep David - Sarah, not Annie. The usual story - banker type moves in, no clue whatsoever and even less desire to engage at the emotional level required to turn any profit in horticulture. Undervalued staff leave/are 'let go' and years of skill, passion and commitment are cast away. I think the new owner has a history of failed businesses and there also seems to be some nasty undercurrents of bullying. It was all done quickly before staff had any chance to keep the place going as a co-op. But yep, we lose more skills and knowledge and mediocrity is the result.

Thanks. It's good to have the full background, even if it's bloody depressing.

I go to Annies about 1x a year, I shopped the sale (40%off) the week before the closing, was there on Monday - they closed Wednesday. There was no sign of problems, plenty of stock, everything well cared for, new boards on the tables, rows re positioned to make it easier to get around, workers putting out lots of new stock, employees happy as always, a line for 4 checkout stands even on a Monday morning. so quite a surprise...

There seems to be some anger directed towards them on social media from people who have recently purchased gift cards (or have received them) as they are apparently not going to honor or refund them.

Yeah why not at least sell off all the stock, as some mail order nurseries do when they are closing? What's going to happen to it?

Since I don't want to create another thread of this depressing nature, this might be a good time to mention Karla Lortz is winding down operations at her excellent Heaths and Heathers nursery, but may not close (hopefully) for another year or two? It's not on her website, it's in an email she sent out. I had thought that would leave the country without a mail order specialist Erica/Calluna provider...but another one just cropped up in google results. I love the rare Ericas but they are frustratingly inconsistent in terms of establishing...so it was great to have a mail order source with such reasonable prices. (Calluna, OTOH, just isn't worth my time anymore. Just a little too hot here in summer)

I grew up with heather moorland but now live in chalk central. I have been transitioning into no-irrigation...but am now feeling dubious that mild wet winters and prolonged springs might scupper my Mediterranean/California planting schemes.

There's always something...staying ahead of the game, thinking in terms of years rather than months or weeks is hard.

Yeah, I got a bit complacent, doing that greenhouse thing (cos sheltered, walled garden) until a couple of winters ago, when I lost every single perlargonium, agapanthus, agave and numerous salvias. The pellies were my most heartbreaking loss, especially an absolutely stunning p.ardens and quinquelobatum, all mostly grown from seed.

Well, dang. One of the local nurseries would offer a selection of plants from Annie's. It was really nice to be able to try a few things, without having to gather a large enough order to justify shipping.

I enjoyed looking at their offerings but being on the East coast, the cost of shipping threw cold water on ordering from them, so I never did. They certainly did offer unusual plants.

In my neck of the woods, we've had a lot of small nursery closings over the past 10 years. Luckily there are still a few good nurseries around. One small nursery is family run and they seem to have the second generation involved in running it now. They do a decent job of offering at least healthy stock if not very imaginative. And keep their prices reasonable.

Then we have two large nurseries, also family run, and they seem to be moving forward and staying current. But one has prices that have become out of my price range for anything larger than a very small plant. They have a lot of trees and shrubs in large sizes with eye popping price tags. But they seem to be wanting to build an empire with the way they are branching out into Farmer's Markets in the winter, and their own compost building division now. So,maybe that increases their overhead, but they have been in business for at least 50 years and own a large property that must be paid off by now.

The third local nursery is very popular, very good selections and they offer organically grown annuals and veggies. They sell a LOT Of expensive large 6 packs of annuals in the spring. $18. for a 6 pack? They sell everything from pots to fertilizers and mulches and have a gift shop as well. I'd be surprised if any of these went out of business. But when I say local two of the three are a 45 min drive from me.

There is one more local chain that has also been around since the 1970s and they declined after the older generation was out of the picture. Very poorly run, every time I went there, I was frustrated. I thought for sure they were going out of business, but in the past two years, they've made the attempt to get back on track, but I still rarely go there any more.

I can't remember the last time I was in a box store.

Turns out there was an earlier thread I hadn't seen: https://www.gardenweb.com/discussions/6468091/annie-s-annuals-closed-today

But, I, and presumably some other people, don't regularly read the rose forum.

Anyhow, I knew it had to be about the value of the land. Even in a slightly sketchy part of the Bay Area, it's astronomical. This speculation seems highly plausible:

https://yale1987.blogspot.com/2008/08/news-from-sarah-hundley-garcia.html

"You bought Annie’s with the intention of running it a few years and selling the land once the area started redevelopment without knowing that the City of San Pablo planning department is a sh-+show which is why you are so angry. When you heard about the salvage yard around the corner being sold, you figured it was to developers. (It was to a neighboring business that needed to expand) When the Feds finally lowered interest rates, you lowered the boom on your employees and loyal customers, squeezing out every drop of money by selling gift cards until the end. Regardless of any purported health issues, Leaving all the plants to die is total scorched earth behavior. At least call Planting Justice and have them take care of the plants, or take them to their nursery. "

Wow, what have we come to? Wishing for people to die in a fire? (see the thread linked in david's post)

So many issues here. One, the sad but all-too-familiar fact of another small business closing.

Two, who of us knows what really happened? Seems most of the info comes from social media - and that's the problem with our country - our world? - today. People read stuff on social media and take it at face value without checking veracity, and then spew hatred from behind an anonymous account. I haven't looked into it myself yet to see if this woman really perpetuated fraud (and certainly, not honoring gift cards at the very least is not good) but we should know what we're dealing with before assuming anything.

Third, it's so sad, disheartening, and disgusting to see so much hate, vitriol, and violence coming from the supposed safety of an anonymous internet account. How vile. How totally, completely, and absolutely vile. And over a nursery closing? The climate is turning apocalyptic, wars are raging, people around the world are oppressed, starving, going without medical care, dying, losing their livelihoods - all kinds of horrible things happening, and some people choose to sit behind a computer and spew hatred into the universe instead of getting off their butts and helping. And in this case, all over a nursery closing down????? Seriously????

And sadly, I always used to think gardeners were kinder, gentler people. I guess I am wrong, and they are just as prone to the worst parts of human nature as everyone else. Just sad.

:(

Dee

I think both HU6 and Dee are right.

People who have suddenly lost their job without notice and people purchasing a gift card during a time when the owner was getting ready to close and not being refunded is actually fraud as has been pointed out. I haven’t got any problem at all with people taking their complaints to the internet, if they do it legitimately and in the right way.

I think what Dee is reacting to, is the very over the top comments that most of us are not used to hearing anyone say. It’s totally lacking in reasonableness and I don’t know what to even call it. I don’t understand how someone makes these kind of statements. Seriously, I’ve been on the planet for a lot of decades and in real life, off the computer, I might have heard some kind of comment like this, once or twice from some very disturbed young person growing up and that’s it. No one that I know or my kids know, would ever say something like this no matter how they were provoked. I would bet that most of you could say the same.

As Dee said, to make this comment in response to something as relatively trivial in comparison to some of the worst provocations we are all subjected to, is really reckless.

And I agree with Dee that if you take the information posted on the internet, in an anonymous comment that has no evidence to back up what they are saying, as fact, it could be entirely incorrect. People get vilified online without any kind of real information all the time. Unless you make it your business to seek out … the rest of the story, the other side of the story, then we are all building a house of cards with perceptions of the world we live in that is inaccurate and false.

I would not even assume that those making comments like the one Dee referred to, are actually gardeners. There are trolls cruising the internet just looking for any place where conflict is happening to add their horrible comments.

But it’s about more than just another business closing, it’s about the way they are closing. If any of the information given was accurate, if this is a new trend, where corporate raiders are buying up properties to close them down with no regard for clients and employees simply to sell off the assets, that’s pretty disturbing.

As HU6 pointed out…”we’ve never….had such an imbalance of wealth and power concentrated in the hands of some the worst people in the world.”

And Dee, how do people focus on helping with the kind of issues we are seeing? The root problems of society - what can be done about it? How do you balance the wealth equation in the world? How do you fight corporate raiders? When unethical and uncaring people have the money and the power, then the average person feels powerless to do anything about it. And that powerlessness feeds into the rage some people are feeling. Politics and government used to be the way you addressed societal issues, but how is that working now?

This disturbing article from a local Bay Area news site details previous legal trouble the current owner of Annie's was involved in (including multiple allegations of assaults), along with accusations from employees of the most recent iteration of Annie's that she abused, harassed and hazed them constantly:

https://richmondside.org/2024/10/07/annies-annuals-sarah-hundley-assault-cases/

Diggerdee, though I generally agree with you about the need to wary of trusting social media as an information source, I determined that the link was reasonable to post, even though it contained disgusting vitriolic content. Why? As the community outage shows, this was *still* a highly successful and culturally influential nursery. If it had been on a downward spiral for many years and no longer had any interesting plants, nobody would care. Based on what I observed in 2011 it had to be generating the highest amounts of revenue per square foot of almost any true* nursery in the country. Granted, I pointed out that maybe things had changed since 2011, but at the end of the day, there are just too many factors making the purchase and quick closing seem nefarious. (Including, I daresay, the business history of the purchaser.) It would be one thing if just a single person said they had recently purchased a gift card...yet there are MANY reports on reddit, and elsewhere, of people having just bought them in the past month or two! If the owner had any idea of closing down, she would have be ethically obligated to stop selling them, or at least offer to refund them. That is very clearly not the case.

So instead of the patterns we usually see of: owner ages out and cannot find buyer (too many to list), new buyers can't sustain the magic of the original owners (Rarefind), owners make financially risky decision that blows up their face (Barry Yinger's ill fated Asiatica), etc. etc. this really does look like a nursery that had to be a least a little profitable, was still enjoyed by the community, still horticulturally relevant on a national scale (I have no doubt I would have placed more orders there), closing out of the blue with absolutely no warning and leaving all the plants to dry up and die? Highly suspect, just because it doesn't normally happen.

The media coverage widens:

https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/longtime-bay-area-business-closes-amid-allegations-19821525.php

With the history of the purchaser...it really does look more and more like an asset stripping that has concluded. Unless she makes a statement, we'll never know if Annie just didn't know or didn't care, but the former, of course, seems much more likely. I knew people who knew her. Her passion for plants was 100% genuine. Of course nobody is going to say "I'm buying your nursery because I plan to sell the land in a few years", and Annie may not have had the investigative chops she would have needed to find out.

It's too bad someone like Berkeley Horticultural wasn't at least given the chance to buy the nursery stock before it died. They are still around. https://berkeleyhort.com/

The display of blooming, for sale, standard-form Rhododendron arboreums I saw at Berkeley Horticultural in 2011 was again, like something I could only otherwise imagine experiencing in England. Magical and over the top. As you can see this is very depressing for me because, although not a denizen of the Bay Area, I was a multiple time visitor (also was there in 2016) and consider it the country's foremost horticultural region. (With the PNW close behind)

BTW, forgot my footnote *. What I meant by true nursery, is, making almost all the money from plants. So many nurseries these days are feeling the need to diversify into other areas. The most farcical extreme of this in my mind is the former Styers of SE PA, surely once considered one of the top 5 most prestigious nurseries in the country. It was bought by the Urban Outfitters guy, what 16 years ago? And every time I drop in, the plants seem like more and more of an afterthought. It now mainly sells expensive housewares. baubles and trinkets, hosts weddings, and sells pricey food in its restaurants.

david, I was in NO way insinuating that YOU were posting false or unverified information, and I sincerely apologize if that is the way you took my post. Not what I meant at all! I was just so horrified by some of the comments on that thread. I probably should not have posted at all, especially when I was so upset about it

I have admittedly not read a lot about the Annie's situation, but I did see some other information posted elsewhere, again alluding to fraudulent and unethical behavior, and it was a kind of "I head that an employee said...." type of thing. Again, no source for where this info was coming from, and working with the public, I can't tell you how many times a day I hear people say things like "I saw on facebook/tiktok/instagram that so-and-so is happening" when whatever it is they are talking about is either just plain false or wildly exaggerated or changed from the original kernel of truth.

And I see this happen, and others feed off it - whether it's outrage, disbelief, excitement - they react to this information as if it's gospel truth, without once thinking of the source. Perhaps it's my media/communications background, where we were always told to consider the source, but it just seems that so much of the nonsense going on in our world is based on this blind acceptance of information - it's gullibility, to be honest.

For example, just today I was listening to a report about people in NC who thought the government was bulldozing a town, bodies and all. I heard interviews with some locals who were quite angry and adamant that this was true. The local authorities were just as adamantly trying to inform their citizens that this was not true (link) and not to listen to social media. Here is a Snopes article about it.

And when you give someone an anonymous pulpit online, the hate just comes out. As PM2 said of her own experience, I too - and probably most of us - have never heard this kind of talk "in person". It just saddens me that so many people are so hate-filled, and that it takes so little to bring that hate to the surface.

Feeling grief, anger, taking offense, feeling ripped off, feeling mistreated, feeling un- or undervalued - these are ALL valid feelings, all human and normal reactions to situations. Telling someone to go die in a fire, or posting death threats or threats of physical and sexual violence? NOT OK.

PM2, how do we help? We get off our asses, out from in front of our computers, off of social media, and we go out into the community and volunteer. We help our neighbors. We advocate. We speak up. We become activists. We get involved. We write our legislators. We become legislators. We do what we can.

Like I said, I probably should not have even posted.... LOL and I probably shouldn't have answered with this post either! Likely just digging a deeper hole...

david, thank you for those links. I appreciate them and will go read more, since as I said I have not seen any actual *news* about this, but only stuff on forums. And again, as I said, there may well be criminal and unethical things here - I know just the fact that gift cards are not being honored is both criminal and unethical - but I like to see some evidence before making a judgment. And I wish not only that others would not rush to judgment, but I also truly wish there were not so much hatred in this world.

Dee

Oh! And on a gardening note, I agree that we have lost too many good nurseries. David, probably not as extreme an example as your Styers, but a local nursery here has gotten increasingly more "garden center/gift shop", adding pots, garden art, and garden-related gifts. They also empty out their entire greenhouse in fall and turn it into a pumpkin patch, with attractions for kids/families. I went there earlier in September, as I often do, to see what kind of sales they had. I walked through the greenhouse, which was already transformed, as I expected. But when I went out the back, where they have for the last 30 years had their wide assortment of shrubs, as well as, at that time of year, tables with any left-over perennials, there was... nothing. Nothing. Just a huge open area of pea gravel. I literally caught myself up short because I was so surprised. I should have asked the staff what happened to everything but I was so surprised I just walked out. I guess on the bright side, they are still in business... for now...

Dee

Dee no worries at all. You raise some excellent points about the coarsening that social media has caused. We're not suppose to talk about politics anymore (right, since hot topics was digitally incinerated?) but I agree the nonsense being spread in the echo chambers about FEMA in NC is shockingly stupid.

My post got me thinking about my 2011 trip. I'm actually vaguely thinking about another in the next year, either to California and the PNW again, or western Europe. (Glad I didn't plan it for this fall - I would 100% had to have cancel it, no matter the expense and waste. Is there a customized-peril kind of travel insurance? LOL) Looking at my pics reminded me of something - when Annie's was actually super crowded was during my April 2016 trip...I'm not sure I have any pictures of that. Even though it's a very mild climate and people garden year-round, of course it would have been more busy in spring. I visited Sonoma Horticultural on both trips, too, and it was also much busier during my 2016 trip. Part of the whole rationale of going back to the bay area again was to be there during the height of rhodo season.

Mind you, in zone 10, spring starts VERY early. Here are the astonishing Rhododendron arboreums I mentioned, for sale at Sonoma Horticultural on 1/30/2011. (they were blooming in gardens like UC Berkeley at the same time) These pictures are in no way enhanced.

Have you ever seen anything like that? If you don't live in a maritime or highland subtropical climate...no you haven't!

Dee, maybe it’s a good thing you posted, it gives you a chance to get it off your chest. [g] This is just more evidence of how the negative changes happening in the world are affecting us. Gee, you reminded me of that movie ‘Mr Smith Goes to Washington’ lol.

I am anti-technology, so you are singing to the choir about the negative affect of social media. I’d be very happy to travel back in time and stay there, to when there were only landlines and telephone booths on every corner and no one had a cell phone and there was no such thing as the internet.

I understand where you are coming from, thinking that if more people would just ‘do something’ we could all make a difference but I’m also aware of so many situations around me where people are just so pressed down with the cares of life and have stopped trying to ‘do something about it’ because of the efforts they’ve made that were frustrated at every step. Then on the other end of things are people I know who have the world on a string, with enough income to run a small country and are just living the high life, traveling all over the world having a great time.

And as for being activists, to me, there are already too many activists in the world all fighting each other. The division of thought of what is right and what should be done are polar opposites. To me, the world has already spun out of control and it would take divine intervention to set it back on it’s axis.

Can the plants still be rescued? Some tougher plants can go without water for a while, as long as the roots didn't shrivel up and die they might be able to be revived. Has any hort group in CA stepped into inquire?

https://blog.anniesannuals.com/2024/10/24/annies-annuals-finds-new-roots-under-new-owners/

good news , aquired by Peacefull Valley nursery

Such good news. I hope former employees will be able to continue to earn a living, support their families, while bringing joy to gardeners everywhere. Yep...even here in the UK, I have always checked out AA's inventory (especially when I was having a delusion that I could recreate a Cali wildflower meadow!!).

At what seems (to me) to be a dangerously pivotal time in history, I am overjoyed to celebrate any tiny victory of beauty and passion over cold hard profit. And when it is done from a grassroots initiative, rather than just another capitalist turnover, the pleasure is even more piquant.

Showing my red roots here (not the US red, obvs)...but best wishes for staff and customers.

Cheers, campanula

That's great news, thanks for updating the thread.