@jjkOC zone 10a/22, SoCal - I agree with Ben and knightsgambit that it is still within the color range of BMS and you definitely can get color variation when the rose is young amongst other reasons. BMS fades for me too. The shape looks correct as it always had well organized blooms with a button eye. It is definitely not The Country Parson. If not BMS, Thr Pilgrim looks similar in color but does not always have a button eye or well organized bloom.

The Pilgrim

I take what I said back. here is my bring me sunshine today with a button eye.

This is a lighter bloom on my Bring Me Sunshine. Some are light, most start a golden yellow. The definite tell is the myrrh fragrance.

@dianela7analabama, @Sunny Mississippi 8a, @BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14), @knightsgambit, and @Dave5bWY etal.

The colors being described for your BMS make me wonder if the color for this rose will actually ever start off saturated like the advertised images. I feel a bit misled by DA.

I heard back from Otto & Sons this morning. They shared that this is their first time carrying BMS. All of the BMS roses in their inventory are opening up like mine, and the DA representative who visited onsite Thursday indicated that the flower ID was correct.

I’m not sure I‘ll be a fan of this variety if the color is not going to start off a rich warm yellow like GC.

For those who are growing it, have you seen any other advantages of this plant compared to other yellow DA roses?

I think what you have is most likely correct. I don’t have it, but recall a lot of harrumphing in the UK when it was first released and the colouring was a disappointing yellow. Nothing like the egg yolk/orangey tones described and pictured on the website. It seems to take a little time to develop those richer tones.

@NollieSpainZ9, I can imagine the harrumphing of British growers… this is such a great word to describe how I feel! I really was looking forward to golden egg yolk yellow!

The question I would love to have answered is whether those rich tones ever will develop here. Time will tell...

I’ve always given roses the benefit of the doubt, giving them a good trial over a handful of years before deciding to expel them from the garden.

I’m just very disappointed that the color is SO very bland compared to the advertised image!

Harrumphing and muttering are national sports for us Brits!

Early blooms are so often atypical, I feel sure it will improve and develop richer tones with maturity for you. Perhaps not as much as in cooler climates, but you never know. Hang in there!

@NollieSpainZ9 Hahahahaha! Thanks for the laughs and the encouragement.

Thanks to everyone for sharing your opinions, thoughts and help!

@jjkOC zone 10a/22, SoCal give it a few years. I know that sounds like a long time, but ive found with better vigor from a larger rose, the ”true” color of the rose will show up eventually. Munstead Wood was a deep pink, Jude The Obscure was almost white as well. As the rose matured, I got the desired color.

A commenter on helpmefind did say the color doesn't last in the sun but there are also two posters who provided pictures with the desired color. Rosegeek also provided some pictures as well as a link to her youtube video of her visit to the DA gardens. My guess is that it's a combination of both age and heat.

Hmmm, I feel lucky, that I have the right color for BMS.

@knightsgambit, it’s very true what you wrote; I remember MW initially having a more magenta flower rather than the deep crimson it has now. I’ll see how the color on BMS develops over time.

It’s been said that disappointment builds character and patience is a virtue… I guess BMS will be a character building exercise toward virtuousness! ;P

@elenazone6, Time to buy a lotto ticket!!! ;)

Her second year…

Jjk,

My BMS bloomed this spring and I’m more convinced you have the correct plant. The bright orange yellow ’sunshine’ color does appear briefly , but is rather fleeting. Most of the time it is ’Bring Me Boring Buff’ or ’Ain’t No Sumshine’.

@BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14), Hahahaha! I love that Ben Withers song! What a bummer than the golden color is so fleeting on BMS! Extreme fading is something I first experienced this year with DA’s Crown Princess Margareta, Juliet, and Meilland’s Princess Charlene de Monaco. Golden Celebration‘s warm, golden color, even more egg-yolk like in the autumn has a longer transition to lighter yellow.

Well, I guess we’ll all see if BMS holds color better as the years go by. I am just so surprised by its paleness compared to the videos I’ve seen of cultivars in the UK.

@elenazone6, the flower form is very lovely, though.

For all those who grow BMS, how is the vase life?

jjkOC and Ben, have a look at Marlorena’s BMS on the UK/Europe thread, around five or six posts back from the last, also Tacks a little further down. Much sunnier! Could be it shows the best colour in the milder English climate.

@NollieSpainZ9, I had wondered whether this rose’s color development is more sensitive to climate since the Youtube clips I saw from UK growers showed a golden egg yolk-colored rose like Marlorena’s. I wonder if she has observed any extreme fading, either when Bring Me Sunshine was first planted, or ocassionally/seasonally. @Marlorena, would you share about your experience growing this DA rose?

One would hope that DA‘s field testing includes diverse locales so that some statement would be attached that indicates recommended for cooler climes, or something to that effect.

@Marlorena, thank you so much for sharing your experience and all the beautiful pics showcasing the details of this variety! Your BMS is what I had hoped for with this rose!! The color being similar to Golden Celebration but with a bit more orange in the center.

I will see how this rose does over the next few years.

It looks like BMS behaves very differently in different climates. I didn’t see any reddish hue in the buds, and the thorns are green.

The Gardener Ben says that it is not as rich a yellow/apricot as on the DA web site, see his review here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c88_sDKKRnI

My BMS has never been this shade of yellow, it's always floating around an orange/peachy yellow that fades to a creamy peachy color. Never a lemon sort of yellow like that. Sometimes there is a button eye but it is very rare. Strong myrrh fragrance. Not sure if that helps, I'm on the east coast

I do really like this rose so far, and it does very well for me. If someone has some of their other good yellow climbers though, they could skip this one. There isn't a lot to set it apart from the other good yellow climbers

Have you tried sending a pic to DA to see what they say? If they think it's the wrong one (and you got it there), they will reimburse. Now that I've been gardening seriously, and I have tried different roses, I am convinced that the sellers take a pic right at the moment where the flower looks its best (like in May or August), and the rest of the time, you may actually get something else. Like I had "CENTENAIRE DE L'HAŸ LES ROSES" by Massad, and that orange in the middle only happens, once a summer, otherwise it's a more pink/white. I have a BMS but I only had it a month during peak blooming (in August, now it's resting), and I definitely could smell myrrh, too, rather sweet version of it. Not the complex scent Gardener ben describes, but sometimes that takes time (like my Olivia Rose Austin which only started to really have a decent scent in year three). It had a couple of buds when it arrived, but I don't remember any pink. Was definitely more yellow than the web site. It was very vigorous and healthy... I guess will have to see in the Spring to see more? @elenazone6 's looks a bit like R. Dahl to me? But climate and soil can change things... @Lilyfinch z9a Murrieta Ca 's Imogen is definitely my experience of it--great one for shade!

Bring me sunshine here. The color changes with the temp like many other roses. I really like many of the yellow Austins and this one is very nice. One advantage this variety offers is superior blackspot resistance to many of the older varieties. This is irrelevant to those in dry climates, but huge to those with humidity.

Wow, @dianela7analabama, that's really pretty! Hope mine does that! And good to know about the blackspot.

A little late to this chat but I grow bring me sunshine in Arizona and the colors change quite frequently. Thats why I fell in love with it. Seems to be a good little rose. The pic in the middle was taken the first week of July in Arizona - that’s why the roses seem a little sad.

Thanks everyone for your pics and sharing your experiences with Bring Me Sunshine! I’m beginning to think that perhaps this variety is in-line with DA’s trend to market roses less prone to leaf diseases as a primary focus, compared to other qualities like color-stay (which is an issue for yellow roses anyway) or pretty floral scents.

I will say that I’ve never seen a lick of fungal disease on my plant, similar to Olivia Rose Austin, super clean here in zone 10a.

@cgurt1107 AZ8b and @dianela7analabama thanks for your wonderful pics.

@Rose Paris, The DA Rep confirmed the entire shipment to Otto & Sons, so it’s likely not a mislabel, but greater irregularity that comes from a young plant grown in sunny CA rather than rainy England. I hope to see its potential over the next few years. Perhaps one day, I’ll see the golden yellow blooms I was hoping for!

HELP! So, I was planning to plant Bring Me Sunshine a nice east-facing spot right next to Julia Child. However, after having observed Crown Princess Margareta that is planted against an ugly street pole in front of my house, growing out super thick, not very pliable canes and not blooming, I’m wondering whether I should dig out CPM and plant her next to Julia Child and plant BMS which seems more dainty, against the pole.

Does anyone have experience growing both of these roses? Or can comment on girthiness?

One other question, can CPM be free-standing? Thank you!

I can only comment on Julia Child. If she were a mammal, she'd be an elephant. Diane

@Diane Brakefield, Hahahaha! I agree with you! She is a very boxom rose!

@jjkOC zone 10a/22, SoCal, I have CPM, and I agree with your assessment of it. For the first couple of years, it essentially got one, short, majestic flush in spring, perhaps there was another flower or two at some point. Then, last summer, maybe in its 4th-5th year, it finally got more than one flush. But it was one big flush, one smaller "flush" (a couple of flowers), and a flower here and there over the summer and into early fall. They are magnificent flowers, nicely perfumed, but I can kind of see why DA cancelled it and I wouldn't get another--I like having blooms! But I won't SP it because I must say it is healthy. It is large, does seem to need propping. Tallest branch is over 6ft right now and is tied to my fence in sort of a "wild area",( part of shrub border in front of a fence, a rougher spot than where Evelyns are, for ex., who are near the patio). If it's not blooming at all you might want to check if it's still CPM or mostly or all canes from below the bud union. In a couple of cases, that has been a reason for lack of blooms in my roses. Fragrance-wise, I don't find it that exceptional. BMS has a smell that is sweeter and more addictive, and the minute I planted it, it bloomed a lot but I haven't yet had it afull season. (Wollerton and Jude are also two fragrant DA yellows that I find pretty tough). , I've actually gotten a rose directly from DA that was a mislabel. It was supposed to be Benjamin Britten but it was this red rose prone to blackspot, so that was pretty clear! DA did reimburse. Not saying that's your case but for info...

@Rose Paris, thank you for sharing your experience with CPM and BMS! My CPM is an own root, but given how thick the basal canes are, I think its current placement is not appropriate. I’m excited to read that BMS has been floriferous for you; this is what I was hoping for, to see flowers instead of an ugly pole. May I ask how you trained BMS?

BMS has very thick canes. Mine was in it's second year this past season, and the basal canes were an inch in diameter. I've been training her around an obelisk, but it's hard to train the thicker ones if you don't catch them right away. Not sure if she'd be well suited for a pole to be perfectly honest

She did give regular flushes though, and I liked the fragrance and health

@Elestrial 7a, It’s helpful to read how BMS behaves after year one. You wrote that you are training on an obelisk. So you think BMS could be temporarily supported until the canes lignify, and then the supports be removed so that it’s free-standing?

@jjkOC zone 10a/22, SoCal The thicker canes definitely are free-standing once they get old enough, they get very stiff. We had a bad storm that snapped her obelisk completely in two places, but her thick basal canes kept it pretty upright. So much so that we didn't even notice until I went to tidy her up and saw the crumpled obelisk holding onto her. Her laterals are very long though - around 5 - 6 feet for me, and I had to constantly tie her back. Very vigorous

@Elestrial 7a, your story suggests that BMS is a lot more robust than she seems!

For those of you who have CPM, or grew CPM, is it worth keeping in the garden? Is her health the chief positive?

Elestrial 7a, your BMS, which is a bit older than mine, and it sounds huge! Does it get as tall and huge as something like Golden Celebration, which is a yellow I recommend if people hav space, as it's also reliably and rather continuously floriferous once it gets goingl. @jjkOC zone 10a/22, SoCal, of late, I have sort of taken the "Marie Kondo" approach to my garden ... if it does not bring me pleasure... So maybe that's one way to think of it? There are a few Houzz threads on CPM, and people seem to have varying experiences...

I don't grow Golden Celebration, so I'm not sure how they would compare size-wise. I do have Graham Thomas, and BMS is more vigorous than him. Here are some photos before & after her first flush - last year, 2 years old. I tried to find pictures of her later in the season when she was really wild looking, but it looks like I didn't take any. She was hard to stay on top of with training, her laterals were huge and whipping around everywhere

Like others have mentioned, I really like how BMS's flowers age and the variety of golden hues you get. They age a really pretty soft creamy color. And you get some peachey colors sometimes, and the occassional button eye

@Elestrial 7a, Holy Smokes!!! Your BMS is stunning! She looks super happy! I hope that mine will be as floriferous. You wrote that keeping on top of training her canes is a challenge. If you had to do it all over, would you train on an obelisk, or would you train against a wall (if that had been an option)?

@Rose Paris, I love Marie Kondo! I fold all my pasta boxes with her technique. As for CPM bringing me joy, I feel like I might have set her up for failure planting her against a pole instead of giving her more room. I didn’t realize her canes would be so big. I might try moving her to another spot. But in the meantime, Ill plant BMS in the spot I had planned.

Hopefully, next year Ill be able to see how BMS compares to GC.

@jjkOC zone 10a/22, SoCal I wrapped a lot of her canes around the obelisk tightly which I think is why she had so many flowers. If I could do it all over again, I would have planted her against a wall. Depending on how big she gets, I may end up moving her (or really - THEM - I have two on separate obelisks.) When I bought them, I had planned to install them on two obelisks in the garden because I saw Gardeners Ben was growing his on an obelisk. I wanted something smaller than GC or CPM, and DA lists her as a 4x4 bush that's suitable for pots. Boy was that wrong. I'm in PA, she probably would be even bigger for you in California

Holy smokes indeed, Elestrial, that is fabulous. I would love to see how it would do in my garden, but sounds as if I wouldn’t have the space. Most DA yellows (those Graham Thomas genes) black spot horribly for me and I sadly had to say goodbye to Golden Celebration, among others, for that reason.

I wonder of BMS would be healthier, given DA seem to be focussing more on health with more recent introductions. I said I was done with their yellows, but somehow a potted Molineux slipped into my basket last time I was at the garden centre. It will probably get bad BS too, but it is meant to be more both smaller and more upright so I will see how it goes.

@Elestrial 7a, thanks for sharing the photos! Gorgeous plant, and enormous!

BMS has been very healthy for me

@Elestrial 7a, Thank you so much for sharing your experience! It’s very helpful! I have watched the video you referenced and can understand why you wished to train BMS on an obelisk, or rather two obelisks. From that video BMS seems like such a mannerly climber… in the UK!

My zone is very different from yours, but given my experience with GC being a 9-10’ wide shrub, I think you might be right that BMS could grow as big or bigger than yours!

I will be planting BMS against a wall. I think I might also move CPM adjacent, that way I could potentially do a real side-by-side. CPM seems very vigorous given that its own-root. I’ll see how BMS performs as a budded plant in comparison.

@NollieSpainZ9, next season, I’ll be able to compare GC and BMS because they will both be in the same part of the yard.

Wish me luck y’all!

When I went to look at mine, I just found two HUGE caterpillars! Dear experts: How deadly are these creatures for the roses, or not at all? And if I pick them off and put them further off field? Will they be back? I've actually never seen ones like this before in all my years of gardening...

@Rose Paris, maybe you can use Google lens to ID? Alternatively, I‘m sure if you start a thread titled rose pest? or similar, someone will be able to ID and share experience.

There are a handful of species that specifically target roses. If roses are the preferred larval food source, and the adults fly, eggs may inevitably get laid on the rose bushes.

I have this problem with Gulf Fritillary larvae and my passion vines. :(

@jjkOC zone 10a/22, SoCal, thanks for your advice! When I took my phone out there with the flashlight function on, I realized it was a full-on infestation! Long, thick critters with prickles all over, green with brown, good camouflage! So will do! Nocturnal, whatever the species is! Noticed some roses had been looking a bit raggedly during the day, but couldn't see why, no fungus or sawfy...Mystery (somewhat) solved!

After all this conversation about BMS and how large it can get, I’m doubly grateful that I planted mine along a wall that I can stretch it out on. Mine is still quite small, but will hopefully take off this year and start showing off. Elestrial, yours is absolutely gorgeous!

Rose Paris, were they possibly bud worms? Those things can wreak havoc on roses and they only come out at night. They come in all sorts of different color patterns in greens and browns. They have fine hairs though, not really prickles. Just an idea. They're terrible and I drop them in a soapy bucket of water when I find them

Thank you Judi. I think she'd be well suited for a wall. It's surprising DA has her marked as a small mannerly bush. She makes a lot of long, flexible laterals

@Elestrial 7a, I think you're right! Thanks for the tip! More specifically, I think it's maybe even the larvae of Helicoverpa armigera. Oh no!