Can't help on the plants but I find that if you click 'submit' a few times while you're typing you can then continue in 'edit' mode without losing what you've just written.

'Gateway' was the original plant I started with, amazing, huge and massive, but too overpowering for most positions. Had believed I found the perfect "more compact" variety in 'Baby Joe', though ended up larger than desired. 'Ruby' has hit the mark at waist high in average soils and to mid chest on moister soils, there has since been other similar compact varieties released, but my search has ended at least for now.

Thanks Frozebud. thats helpful

marie

I have Gateway and I think Baby Joe…I have self seeding everywhere. i do like choco, which I have too.

I have a few "Gateway" - big bad*ss plant if you have the room for it. I also have "Phantom", which is about boob height with dusty mauve flowers -- very hard color to work with, but the plant is the perfect height and form for where I have it so I leave it be.

I’ve never chosen Eupatorium. The Eupatorium chooses me. With my dry soil, it is Eupatorium perfoliatum aka common boneset that volunteers. It usually reaches about boob height too!