Questions: Do you have photos of this space? Is the enclosed porch on the same level as the rest of the house? Is it winterized? Any consideration to push the kitchen into that space? What are the ceiling heights? Are they open to moving windows or doors? Are they getting rid of the living room area for the table?

I would not open the wall to the living room and have the stove exposed like that -

" -they are MESSY COOKS - grease, flour, everywhere when working, and often many cooks in the kitchen. "

To get everything they want, they may need to be more open to moving things around.

Happy to add some info! I don't have photos of the space, but can get them in the next week or so.

-Ceiling height is 8 feet in the kitchen/living/dining areas

-Enclosed porch is one step down from the kitchen, and they do not want to bump out the former exterior wall into it. We went through some options on that and it's too much construction with a domino effect for the foundation and possibly the second story.

-Enclosed porch is insulated and they run space heaters so it is sort of winterized, though not connected to the home hvac. It is a mudroom type space that acts as a utility room for homestead things.

-I don't think they expect everything, they just want to see what is possible within their boundaries. They are very relaxed people who will be pleased with any sort of better kitchen that still has a stretch of counter they can gather round.

-They could get rid of the living room area for the table (or reduce it to one sofa), but are currently quite attached to the dining table's location. They are planning to move things around and try out the table by the fireplace with the wall still up, and imagining it partly opened up.

I don't have photos of the space, but can get them in the next week or so.

These people are unable to provide images? If you are trying to help, why don't you have them?

It's almost always best to do away with the person in the middle and let the people with the need respond.

I'm thinking a peninsula. I also wondered about actually opening the wall into the LR by the stairs, to create a traffic path NOT through the kitchen works zones (I think this is in one of your plans but it's hard to tell, maybe post the flat plan views as well)

For messy cooks and bakers I think it would be preferable to have a long stretch of work surface, not interrupted by the fridge.

I wouldn't want to do away with my main floor living room either.

Ha, you're not wrong about the middle man, but if you think of these kitchen owners as a cross between hippies and Mennonites in the rural midwest, you will be close to the idea. They are not going to be jumping online to learn the world of kitchens or to hash things out on the houzz forums, and they asked me for design help when they realized how clueless they were.

Here's a floorplan view of the peninsula arrangement we are leaning toward. There would be a pony wall behind the stove because of messiness, then a flat L peninsula beside that. It's unorthodox and not great design, but seems to meet a need in this situation. Do you think a full wall behind the stove is better? That's totally doable, I was just trying to keep things open to the table for conversation.

The downstairs "living area" is currently a settee, kids' computer desk, and a baby grand, but their piano is going upstairs to join the big sofa and TV zone. I think moving the dining area to the fireplace and tucking in a squashy loveseat or small corner sectional is going to provide the same amount of LR function. There would be 6' between the peninsula and the pantry on the right wall that would sit between the windows, so the aisles are big. I'm hoping that once the fridge is not half-blocking the french doors into the enclosed porch, people will be more inclined to go that way to the backyard as the path of least resistance. If they still cut through the kitchen, at least the sink-stove-prep areas are not being cleaved in half with traffic.

On the right hand wall we have (top to bottom) an entryway table, kids computer desk, and shallow reach-in pantry cupboard. The coffee zone is next to the fridge, baking zone on the other side of fridge.

I do think a full wall is better. Walls are useful! it would be beneficial to have a wall + real ventilation, especially if they are on gas.

If you think about cooking processes, more of the time is spent in prep, not as much in active cooking in front of actual stove (unless they are making risotto or jam or something). Even more so for baking.

That is going to be a tight squeeze around the table with the fireplace especially if they light a fire. I would want a wall behind the stove based on what you said about their cooking.

What if they moved a lot around - windows, doors and made the opening into the living room wider? How far are they willing to go ?

This would give them a huge kitchen:

Just a thought

Ooh, that really opened up new possibilities! Love this and what it makes the space, and I think they would be willing to do the reframing on the back wall as they're already planning to cut back the middle wall.

PS, the fireplace has a pellet stove insert which is more of a mild heater type situation than flames and fiery hot air. It is fine to sit right on its hearth and be comfortable.