maackia, Did you know he has a YouTube channel and has made seven recent videos? They are treasures.

www.youtube.com/@DrMichaelADirr

I have met the man, and he is a delight. I don't agree with all of his highly opinionated opinions, but most of them!

Oh, and being just as opinionated as Dirr when it comes to plants, whenever a plant becomes ultra-popular, showing up all over social media, is sold by every place that sells plants, and is suddenly present in almost every garden, I run the other way. I'm of course talking about recent cultivars of the species Hydrangea paniculata, not just Peegee.

While I appreciate the incredible amount of development and improvement that folks have done with this species, and many of them are truly impressive, I'm usually not a fan of plants that appear manufactured.

There is a garden just up the street that appears to have almost every recent cultivar in their front garden, and they're extremely well grown. After months of no rain, we finally received .015". Yes, 15/100ths of an inch. Almost every single massive panicle was bent to the ground from the weight of the water. No thank you.

Art, completely agree with you about all the 'fake' looking plants being rushed to market.

As for Dirr, he's fine...I need to go watch some of his videos because I wasn't aware of them. But, sorry, in terms of having written a serious, scholarly, deeply researched tome on North American trees, Arthur Lee Jacobson had him beat. Not by a mile, mind you, but all the same there's just no question about it, in my humble opinion. Alas, Jacobson didn't have the professional authority of being affiliated with a large land grant university, so his "NALT" book as some of us call it, North American Landscape Trees, never got the amount of clout and cred it deserved. I'm still shocked it was never republished, but, alas, such is life.

The only thing out there matching or exceeding ALJ is the insanely useful "Trees and Shrubs Online", but that's UK based so you'd expect it to be better than anything American. 🤣

david, totally agree on ALJ. The man is a plant savant. Having met him as well, and spent time with him on plant tours, I will say he is the polar opposite of Dirr, and that's all I will say.

Interesting! Thanks for that perspective, I would love to have met either of them, but haven't.

Another fan of Dr. Dirr here (I also have met him and he signed his monograph on hydrangeas for me). Opinions in gardening are a fact of life and most serious gardeners have them. There are a number of plants I would never provide space for and do not spec for clients.......unless they insist. And even as a huge hydrangea lover........paniculatas are one. I have had and do grow most of the other species, however.

Not that my opinions matter - although they are also facts of life (haha) - but I was a anti P.g. snob for a long while, but now have a couple.

At least in my part of the east coast, they are perhaps the ultimate 'middle brow', 'dumpy neighborhood', 'old fashioned', 'yer grandma's garden' shrub...whatever mildly disparaging term along those lines you can think of. Maybe second only to rose of trailer trash sharon as I'm fond of calling it. But 1) at least peegees aren't super weedy and invasive! and 2) aren't generally a hideous mauvy color that, to steal from the celebrated Bob Brown of Cotswold Garden Flowers, "looks like it belongs in an Indian brothel"! I'm less offended by the white with red eye Hibiscus syriacus.

If another former GWebber hadn't touted ALJ as the be-all and end-all of gardening authorities (after himself of course) I might be more inclined to appreciate him. Rather, I find him to be a bit of a stuffed shirt (there's one of those opinions sneaking in :-)))

Haha, message received and I 100% get where you're coming from.

I see what you did there, Pam!

I wasn't a horticultural student, but just for interest I had read Dirr's book over and over when hardly in my 20s. The book on my shelf looks as worn as an ancient bristlecone pine. I guess his opinions can be pretty harsh reflecting the often harsh mid-western climate.

When it comes to plants, I enjoy opinions of all stripes. Thank you all for sharing your opinions. It was fun to read.

Klark, thank you for the YouTube tip. I will definitely check that out.

I don't have much to contribute, having never read Dirr (although I have heard of him and thumbed through his book) and never heard of Jacobson either. But wanted to say this has been a very fun and interesting thread, so thanks everyone. Although, artinnature, you intrigue me with your " and that's all I will say" comment. It makes me wish you WOULD say more lol.

maackia, lovely garden! Is it yours? A neighbor's?

:)

Dee

Dee- lol, I won't share any more here, the internet is already way too divisive. I guess you could pm me if you really want to know more.