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pebcary

Has anyone ever thought about "chill hours" for roses?

last year

I'd like to try a hybrid musk or two, and in the course of reading find some doubt of their hardiness. I decided I'd had enough of books from England with THEIR ideas of hardiness, or anything hardy and supposedly fragrant with Kordesii in it, and forget California completely. I'm in Tennessee, we can have all 4 seasons in the same week! So for fruit trees, chilling hours are really important here. Nothing below 800 chill hours, and 900 or 1,000 are better. We want trees that will not succumb to the late winter balmy spells, because winter will return briefly come spring.


So I hit the library, and got this Peter Schneider book because he is in Ohio. And he says that most of the HM's get killed back in his climate, and that the problem with all the teas except Lady Hillingdon is that they come out too early. I'm officially in Z6, and don't remember having got below -10F in the last 30 years. So theoretically HM's would be fine here, most rated to Z6, but if they break bud too early they'd be useless. I've noticed that the later developed, hardier HM's are not noted for scent. I have met one or two of them, no scent I could detect.


Does anyone have experience in this climate, or should I go for the newer 'Perfume Breeze'?



Comments (5)

  • last year
    last modified: last year

    I do not grow hybrid musks myself, but I enjoyed them, and their strong fragrance in particular, just the same, but this was over 15 yrs. ago.

    From my many years association then, with a large public rose garden near me, also growing in my zone 6b, I can say that the hybrid musks there did well. I cannot recall any late frost problems with them outside of what problems late frosts cause to all roses in zone 6, where late, damaging frosts can occur.

    Getting about 4'T X 4-5'W at maturity (I was there when they were planted, but cannot recall if they were grafted or own root), there was no consequential winter dieback. I'm pretty certain Cornelia was one of the hybrid musk bushes there. The names of the others escapes me.

    They were planted as single, stand alone, centerpiece bushes with lawn surrounding them, not as multiples of one variety in the formal beds. It seems hybrid musks need room to do their thing, and look and perform their best as solitary bushes.

    Disease issues are likely to be encountered. They were sprayed religiously at the garden there, so how they would perform in a no spray garden, I cannot tell.

    I see no reason why you couldn't succeed with hybrid musks there in Tennessee. Go for it!

    Moses.

  • last year

    I hear Perfume Breeze blooms exceptionslly well. I am in the Fingerlakes, NY, 6b. I just go by plant zones & order anything zone 6 5,4. Kordes are fine, but maybe no scent. Lavendar Lassie is a Hybrid Musk, does exceptionally well for me, no scent. Diane

    has Cornelia-a Hybrid Musk.


    Do you only want HM? I have many DAs, Meilland and now many florist roses from the Netherlands (Interplant, Jan Spek, Tantau) Delbards, Germany & Japanese roses that do well.


    What would you like?

  • last year

    Pebcary, I live in high semi/desert Arizona where we have all 4 seasons in one day. I’m only half kidding when I say that… we can have a huge fluctuation of temps in a 24 hour window, easily 50 degrees difference in night vs daytime temps. My roses get brutal treatment from the weather at times. About the only thing I don’t struggle with is Blackspot. Hybrid Musks are tough roses, in my opinion. I have 2 Sally Holmes, Ballerina, Felicia, Jeri Jennings, Rise Up Lilac Days and 2 Perfume Breeze. The only one that struggles here is Felicia and I think it’s a placement issue with her. She would prefer not to be in all day, blazing hot sun next to a stone wall. Poor thing. She put on her best show yet this spring, but overall she’s not happy where she is. We don’t get it as cold as you do, but we do hit the teens pretty often during the winter and I get virtually no die back of canes.

  • last year

    Hah, well, I found a feature in Helpmefind that I wasn't aware of. Looked up a rose where they said 'requires spring freeze protection" (see glossary "spring freeze protection"). Well well, this is exactly what Peter Schneider talked about in his book "Right Rose, Right Place". But as it turns our, a few varieties he says are fine at his place in Ohio, have this warning in HMF. Considering our climate here in TN, I think I'd better err on the side of caution. I ordered 2 HM's 15+ years ago, one of them was Buff Beauty. Don't remember if they lasted only 1 year or two, but I couldn't figure out why they died. Bet it was a late spring freeze.


    They have that warning on 'Margeret Merrill' and 'Sheila's Perfume' and 'Shhi-Un' but not on 'Martine Guillot', which I encountered once in Nashville and really liked. Uh oh, it's got it for 'McCartney Rose', which I was hoping to get. Also says BS, and I bet the one I saw years ago was sprayed....


    I remember a phone conversation I had once with my mom, who grew up in Kentucky but lived half her life in Florida. I said, "Mom, we aren't having a winter here!" and she replied, "Don't worry hon, you'll get it in the spring."

  • 10 months ago

    The chill hour question is very interesting. I grew up in the hills outside of Syracuse. My mother’s roses flourished until the beetles showed up. Now, I am in Massachusetts and I hope the cold will take care of the overwintering pests. But, I don’t know if the cold is necessarily for blooms.