Europe generally has much stricter rules about many things . I do not understand why you don't just use F&B and do the same technigue used for the DeVol cabinets . Yes it will be harder tofind a painter . You have a good sized budget for just cabinets maybe check out the real thing.

You might try joining this group:

CABINET PAINTING, REFINISHING, FINE FINISHES & GENERAL PAINTING | Facebook

Ask for recommendations & professionals in your area.

Most of the top cabinet painters are using 2K products - a lot of which come from Europe.

They will most likely want to paint your cabinets on site, but will also have an extensive knowledge of the difference in chemistry between CV and the 2K products.

You can also search different brands for their own FB page and/or website (ICRO, Renner, Milesi, Centurion, et.al.)

Thoughts on this approach? Milisi waterborne 2k for our first coats + tip the final coat on site with Benjamin Moore Satin Advance? An extremely high-end builder/carpenter who specializes in millwork said that's their technique (they are located in a different area from me).

I would have to find the right painter, who can do a gentle and regular brush stroke. The handpainted look is a fine line between a very even application of paint and seeing the brush marks in the paint.

Alternatively, Mylands paint was recommended as one of the best waterbased paints. I live in PA and think there is a dealer in NYC or NJ. It would be a spray undercoat + hand-painted overcoat x 2.

Also, our potential custom cabinet maker only does CV. He is open to 2K but says he doesn't want a client to be his guinea pig. Would I have him make the cabinets and then outsource both the spraying and hand-painting?

Or do I need to search further for a cabinet maker who already uses 2K? It doesn't seem that common in this area of Pennsylvania (Bucks County).

First off - NO to mixing two different brands and types of paint!

Advance was one of the better products - 20 years ago. I've used it a couple of times and have never liked the finish. Others have had better success with it, but my husband is able to get a flawless finish with other products, so it could have been our technique. IMO, it's also not worth the 16 hour time required between coats.

I don't find ANY store brand paints that match the quality of the brand names. The Benjamin Moore dealer I use has their own "house" brand. Used it once for a bedroom - NEVER again will I try to "save" $20 on a gallon of paint.

Back to your cabinets - check that FB page for someone in your area - for a job your size, a cabinet finisher would be willing to travel.

Most of the 2K products can be used as a "1K" - it just means you don't add the catalyst.

And a clear coat is not needed over any of them - they are available in nearly any gloss level - from flat to HIGH gloss.

Beware of a "cabinet painter" that still uses the same products and techniques from 20, or even 10 years ago.

I understand why it's not a good idea to mix 2 brands of paint. Isn't it odd though that this extremely established and super luxury high-end/borderline famous builder does this? That makes me think it's a viable option? Or are you saying that perhaps the have a special technique and it probably won't work out for the rest of us?

What would you recommend if I wanted a hand-finished/tipped final layer?

Good point on a skilled painter who might be willing to travel. We are less than 2 hours from NYC/45 mins from Philly so there must be someone.

Look up Corrie Liester. She's out of PA and refinishes cabinets, and will do new cabinets as well. She isn't going to have any patience with some mixed up ideas of mix and match. Quality cabinets finishes are not brushed. Shttps://inspiredbyu.com/

Can you give the name of that painter? And the paint he uses.

I think the issue here is why anyone would spend that kind of money for new, custom cabinetry, if the look you want it "old, hand painted".

Do you have any close-up pictures of the look you're going for?

Go to Superior Woodcraft in Doylestown. Make an appointment to meet with Michelle. She is the owner and a KD. It is a family business, around for 60 years.

I had a serious aversion to a plastic looking finish. Love F& B colors and like a British look. She walked me through all possible options. She will do anything you want but will also tell you why something is or is not a good idea. She knows the business, coatings, construction inside and out. She knows what used to be done, why it is or isn't being done now. How to adapt processes. They are as custom as you can get.

Don't let the showroom or portfolio turn you off. They do things from Jersey Shore up to Nantucket. Tons of custom work. They mostly show what the greatest number of people are looking for. But they have done two of my kitchens, both in a more dull, durable, non-plastic finish on wood.

They made custom samples for us of different things we were thinking of. I also have a terrible reaction to VOCs. She sampled different no voc interior cabinet finishes for me. And, they let our cabinets off gas for three months at their place.

I loved the profile of the salvaged door I used on our second floor laundry room. They copied it exactly and made our cabinets to look like that. Nothing is cookie cutter with them. They build to last. She explains pros and cons of layout, style, hardware, coatings. All of it. She is fabulous.

https://www.superiorwoodcraft.com/

Thanks @Kendrah-- I have friends who have also used and highly recommend Superior Woodcraft so I will reach out to Michelle. You are exactly articulating it — I am not at all experienced so don't want someone to just nod and agree to a bad idea, but do want someone open to different approaches since I am not looking for the cookie-cutter, American standard of a perfect, flawless factory finish. We met a great local cabinetmaker but he doesn't have experience with anything but CV.

Thank you @Minardi - appreciate the lead. I will reach out.

@Mary Elizabeth These are some of the references/research:

deVOL

Here at deVOL we have been making and painting furniture for over 35 years, developing and perfecting a formula that is easy to apply, flexible enough to prevent any cracking and robust enough to withstand chipping from everyday use. It is a water-based paint with an authentic satin sheen, perfect for traditional furniture. We will give your cupboards two coats with a spray gun before applying a final coat by hand, we like the subtle brush strokes to be visible and this also means if the doors do suffer any knocks or scrapes, they can be really easily touched up by you.

https://www.instagram.com/p/C2kEwGjoaj-/

Each deVOL cupboard has three layers of paint. Two are applied with a sprayer to make sure the coverage is even, and the third is painted on by hand, using a brush. It’s a detail that most kitchen companies don’t do anymore, but we think it’s the human touch of a craftsperson that makes our cupboards so special. Zoom in and you can see the brushstrokes…

https://www.instagram.com/p/DA3MTkcI1PF/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

So once your Shaker cupboards are all made, it’s time for some paint!! Your chosen colours will need to be confirmed by your final sign off date, which is usually about 6 weeks before delivery. First up the cupboards go to our spray shop, they’ll get two coats in here to ensure an even and really durable layer. Then they’ll be finished by our expert painters with a coat applied by hand to give a wonderfully traditional look. This is Gemma, she’s been working at deVOL for years and years and is such an integral member of our painting team, she’ll make sure your Shaker cupboards are just right. Of course how we paint our cupboards is important, but so is the kind of paint we use – we mix all our paints ourselves to a special formula perfect for our furniture, the paint is water-based and has a 10% sheen. Finishing with a hand-painted coat not only looks beautiful but it also means if your cupboards do suffer a little knock or chip then it’s really easy to touch up yourself and we’ll always provide extra touch up pots on delivery.

https://www.instagram.com/p/C2kEwGjoaj-/

Plain English

What is the durability and longevity of your cabinetry.

We use natural materials such as timber to build our product and our philosophy is to use these precious resources with respect, creating joinery that will age well and last indefinitely. All our joinery is hand-painted, and the paint can easily be touched up to make the finish as good as new. We believe that the soundest approach to any project is to buy once and buy well.

--

Today, Plain English commonly uses an eggshell finish and most of their kitchens are painted by hand with a brush, “We dislike the ‘factory finish’ of sprayed paints,” says Wright. “A brushed finish shows the human touch, ages well, and can easily be re-finished.”

Guild Anderson
The Art of Painting a Hand-Painted Kitchen

https://staging-gafurniture.kinsta.cloud/journal/the-art-of-painting-a-hand-painted-kitchen/

Kevin Cradock builders

Recommends tipping as final technique:

https://www.instagram.com/p/DGK8fNbvyGW/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

ThisOakHouse (Annie Meyers-Shyer) just did this with all her cabinetry. Obviously she was using pros who knew how to pivot when spraying wasn't achieving the desired result.

A wonderful designer just gave this information -- validating BM Advance (not sure whether on top of BM advance or a 2K sprayed).

Advance is s trim paint. NOT a cabinet paint.

Thank you @KT Builders -- appreciate this. I keep getting mixed messages from different sources. Another builder uses Advance on TOP of Milisi 2K spray to allow for touch-ups and give it character -- do you think it's ok used like this? So there's the perfect 2K durable under layers, and a light finishing layer with BM Advance.

Yes, Michelle is very honest. She talked us out of purchasing extra cabinets because she thought it would make our kitchen look too crowded. And, she was right. But her theory was if you don't like it after 6 months or a year, we'll make the extra cabinets for you. They have been around forever and really stand behind their work.

I loved that she gave me a tour of the whole wood shop so we could see exactly how they make their cabinets, including the different kinds of paint set ups.

" Another builder uses Advance on TOP of Milisi 2K spray to allow for touch-ups and give it character "

ONE system. Not a homemade witches brew.

"Another builder uses Advance on TOP of Milisi 2K spray to allow for touch-ups and give it character." If massive eventual peeling is "character", then that's what you will get. Incompatible coatings mashed together is the mark of a complete amateur who mistakenly thinks they are smarter than the average bear, not an actual expert in finishes.

Sherwin Williams makes Emerald Urethane Trim Enamel which is a water-based urethane enamel that creates an exceptionally durable finish. It is marketed for trim, but it’s a perfect coating for “cabinets, doors, and trim.” You don’t have to be so literal about the name and the use, but it’s always good to check the web site.

Conventional paint formulas do not have the durability you need for kitchen cabinetry. You really should look for a urethane-based enamel.

As for colors, SW will match any hue from any company. You can see DeVol colors on their web page.

Just buy Christopher Peacock, or Clive Christiansen, if you are aiming for an old fashioned English Kitchen. deVol is the johnny come lately to that world and doesn't actually do the best job, because they do box box box, with stiles extended to the bottom as "feet", and not combining inset cabinets. Inset cabinets should always be combined. In custom, that uses a domino and detached rails, to be able to use a common stile, and combine in the home, so logistics doesn't limit you in length. It takes a lot for a high end production company to equal that type of build. deVol isn't exactly high end. Mid grade, with a big marketing engine, from carefully fictionalized TV exposure is more it. MOST of the UK does frameless. Less than 3% of actual English kitchens are framed.

Great points @Rainbow Colors You are correct that the majority of deVol is semi-custom unless they do a full custom bespoke project. Plain English is truly custom, and I've read higher quality, with an accompanying price tag.

For my budget, however, Plain English / Christopher Peacock / Clive Christiansen is going to be too expensive, especially because I have a very big space. That's why I'm trying to find a local craftsperson to make the cabinetry, and then instead of using their default CV finish, find that unicorn painter/cabinet refinisher who can do the right combo of spray/hand-brush finish for durability.

Finishing cabinets with a specialty strie hand brushed finish finish is a 100% upcharge for production cabinet lines that offer that. Meaning, if your maple cabinets are 40K in a standard stained finish, they would be 80K in a brushed finish. Which is why high end custom that offers this is also so expensive. (They don’t start at 40K, for a start.) It is the labor cost. Increasing the labor needed for a job is the fastest way to spiral costs out of control. That is what you are doing here. Robbing Peter to Pay Paul by not choosing the manufacturer that offers what you want is an exercise in futility. Kicking the can down the road. It just shifts the same labor it is going to cost elsewhere, just in different categories. Zero sum.

That's a great point @Delta Systems. I've been looking into local custom cabinet makers who could give unfinished cabinets, and then I would pay for the labor to finish. However, you are right, the ideal state is finding someone who makes AND finishes the way I want.

Doing this piecemeal is expensive, stressful and risky!

You also may be overthinking things a bit. Unless you go custom you’re not going to get everything you want, so prioritize. Do you think you will notice the absence of brush strokes on your finish after you’ve had the kitchen for a few years?

Unless your budget is a couple of hundred thousand, you are going to have to make some significant tradeoffs between the teenaged ”I want hunky Brad Pitt” and the sensible mature ”I need a sweet dadbod who helps with kids and a mortgage”.

Or set up your own woodshop in the garage.

I most likely will go custom. Part of the reason I'm interested in a hand-painted finish on top of sprayed is for durability and longevity, the ability to touch up the paint for life's inevitable dings. I worry that a CV "perfect" looking finish will start to wear at high-touch places like garbage drawer.

@Lycan Interior Solutions Your response made me truly LOL. Love it. I see what you mean about glorifying a misguided notion, or chasing an idea, but I feel like the forgiving hand-painted finish IS the mature dad-bod mensch who stays with you forever, while the sprayed CV is the fake Brad Pitt that looks great in the beginning and is designed to last 10 years. Do you see what you mean?

I find it odd that what I'm seeking IS so niche and uncommon.

Maybe a 2K spray would be fine and that's the answer (my local guy only does CV so might need to keep shopping around).

99.9999% of all cabinets everywhere are sprayed. Because it's superior in coverage, and wear resistance. You are insisting on something that will instantly make your kitchen look worse, and wear worse. It's a waste of more than 50K. Because you will waste the counter install too when you have to replace your peeling hot mess. If you had the money to do this right, and to throw away on cosmetics, then you wouldn't be here trying to do it the cheap and wrong way. That means you cannot afford to make the mistakes that you are insisting on making, that people are trying to save you from yourself. When you have limited funds, you don't' do pie in the sky designs. You first get creative with what you have. As in, paint your existing cabinets. I think you'll find that stretches the budget a long way, but it sure extends the timeline. That's a month or two to do correctly.

I’m on your side here for sure. Seriously call Michelle Kennedy. My cabinets are sprayed but don’t look like plastic at all. I don’t remeber what they used. She gave me little bottle of paint and crayon type stick that both match my farrow and ball color. These are to be used for touch ups over time. My cabinets do not have a brush stroke effect. It is easy to dab on a bit of the paint in a meeded areas and it just blends in. Had to do so after my big butt sloppy plumber dinged up the cabinets 3 months after install.

Thank you @Kendrah -- I'm in touch with Michelle and looking forward to hearing her (much more experienced than me) opinion.

@Rainbow Colors I hear what you're saying and definitely do not want to take an (expensive!) risk. I am doing this research for that reason. And because even if 99.999999% of cabinets are sprayed, I'd like to understand why some of the most high-end luxury makers whose cabinetry I most admire and am trying to emulate use some form of a hand-finished technique, and say the reason they do it is FOR longevity and touchups. To me it's a little like replacing rotted wood windows in a historic house with fiberglass windows versus using a traditional method of wood and linseed oil paint that also should last 100 years when done properly. Of course the "old way" costs more, but just because the majority of things are now done one way, I'm researching alternatives. I might end up spraying, but it's worthwhile to me to investigate.

It might be sort of like saying "I don't want plastic in my life" and it's just not the reality -- that would mean I couldn't shop at a grocery store.

I do genuinely appreciate your feedback though because I don't want to make a mistake, so truly thank you!

“I'd like to understand why some of the most high-end luxury makers whose cabinetry I most admire and am trying to emulate use some form of a hand-finished technique,”

You surely are not naive enough to fall for that type of exclusivity snob *marketing*. Rolls uses the same spiel about their handcrafted cars. What that really means is that there are no stock replacement parts without making a one off custom every time, because a hood of one car won’t even fit another car of the same model and make. And “handcrafted” zellige tiles absorb a lot of water, have a ton of sizing differences, and will cut you just like a knife if you aren’t careful and are silly enough to put them on a floor.

Celebrating bad craftsmanship as ”hand done” is rampant in marketing right now.

Let’s just put to bed the notion that sprayed cabinets can’t be touched up. That is a huge lie. It is far easier to touch up a smooth sprayed finish than one with deliberate brush strokes. It’s actually almost impossible for a novice to match textures, not smooth.

That is why any specialty finishes applied at a production facility are done by one person per job. Susan does your glazed finish from start to finish, because if Brendon jumps in and wipes a couple of doors, the human eye can easily spot that difference in technique. Same with a brushed finish. One person per job. No homeowner is going to touch up texture they don’t create, and have it not be clearly visible. Smooth is easy. Smooth is smooth.

Great points @Tish. Smooth is smooth. No personalized nuance.