Mine is 4' tall by 3' wide, planted in 2020 as a band, Colorado zone 5. It is a mannerly bush in that it does not send out long canes. I would think it would be easy to control the size with a yearly pruning. However, the flowers are not heat tolerant and crisp very easily in the heat and sun. I would think that in Tuscon would be worse. It is one that I would take out and replace if we start doing that. Once it heats up it is a very ugly rose bush with all the fried flowers.

June 11, 2025.

I have several tea roses, which can get rather large here, as well as 'Golden Celebration', growing in narrow beds and trained up along fences. So I think @mmmm12COzone5's suggestion could be doable.

Mark, I've grown a grafted Neil Diamond in a 15 gallon pot for 8 years, and it shows no sign of being an ultra-large bush, either for height or width. I grow most of my >200 roses in 15 gallon pots (long story why), and I've had quite a few that wanted to be too large for that size, and I gave away. Roses I loved, like Memorial Day, The McCartney Rose, Marilyn Monroe, and a number of others. But I've never seen that tendency with Neil Diamond. I'm in coastal So. Calif. (~2 miles from the coast), where temps are mild... average summer highs are ~78, although of course sometimes we get much hotter. Tuscon is very different. Mine is in full day sun, and while the blooms usually last fine enough, its blooms don't strike me as ultra-sun resistant during major heat waves. Hope this helps somewhat on the size :-D

First, I want to thank all three of you, mmmm12COzone5, catspa_zone9sunset14, and susan9santabarbara for responding with your experiences.

mmmm12COzone5: Bands grow slowly. You have grown yours for 6-years, and your experience informs me that this is doable for mom. All roses fry in the summer heat in Tucson, but there are two blooming seasons which are sensational in Tucson. I would not be concerned about the frying reasons you express, because June-September is not a friendly rose blooming season in Tucson.

susan9santabarbara: In that if you are in Santa Barbara, the Land of Milk and Honey for growing roses, if Neil Diamond is not an ultra-large bush for you it should not be one for mom.

Tucson has two bloom seasons. They are about to enter the heat of the summer, and the heat of the summer is not one of the prime bloom seasons.

I am so glad to be a part of this forum for almost 30-years.

Mark, I think it will work out fine for her size wise. Here is a 2025 pic of the wider bed. Neil Diamond (planted '20) is in the center. To the left of it is Pretty Lady Rose (planted '17). To the right of it is Parade Day (planted '19). The tall, lighter pink rose behind Parade Day is Amiga Mia (planted '18 but mature bush, not band like the others). You can see that out off all of them Neil Diamond is a pretty narrow bush. This is it's natural shape in this space since we have not pruned it for shape and have been trying to get it to increase in size. Out of all my roses this is the only one that crisps in the heat but if she gets out and cuts the flowers early she can enjoy them indoors. It does have a strong scent.

This information, and the photos, are reassuring, and I was able to reassure mom. Thanks to all.

Ben, Oh no! You were posting while I was writing. You have a beautiful Neil Diamond.

BenT, Your review was the reason I got Neil Diamond. I noticed in your video that you thought it was heat resistant, whereas for me it is the only rose in the bed that will crisp in the sun. I'm wondering what the difference is? Mine is own root from High Country Gardens. Is yours grafted? If so, on what? I'm also wondering if maybe mine isn't getting enough water. Also mine doesn't really get the big bunches of blooms, more like how you described it when you grew it in Texas with one bloom per stem, mostly. Also your bush is very wide and mine is very narrow compared to the height. I'm left wondering if it is the stock it is grown on vs own root? Thoughts?

• mmmm12COzone5,For what it is worth, I have four rose bushes planted behind my office where there is a southern exposure, and two story downtown buildings 90' to the west, and 30" to the east. They are protected from the prevailing west winds, and the occasional east wind. Roses grown in this microclimate grow as if they were planted in ideal conditions in California.
• For example, "The Prince" behind my office reaches 6' height and 4' spread by the end of the season. The same cultivar at my residence in full sun not protected from wind achieves a height < 3' and 18" spread by the end of the season.
• Mom's roses, to the extent we grow a few of he same variety, usually achieve the height and spread of my roses at my residence that are not protected from the westerly and easterly winds.

Mmmm,

I have two Neils, one Dr Huey and the other Fortuniana. Mom has two own-root Neils, and they are indeed more narrow. I would say burn resistance is above average, say similar to Don Juan, Miss AAB, Double Delight. There are waxy petaled roses that are much better such as Veterans Honor, Olympiad, Red Intuition but they tend to carry little scent.. And there are other fragrant reds burn far worse, like Rouge Royale and Firefighter. Neil also produces decent sized blooms with decent petal count in summer, many roses don’t.

Mark,

Hope Neil grows terrific in your mom’s garden! I do think he’ll be great in Tuscon.

Mmmm, I don’t know what the difference is between your Neil Diamond vs the one that Ben grows, but I’m quite sure it has something to do with the gravel mulch in your beds. I lived in Sacramento more than 12 years, just a few miles from BenT, and I doubt that you get it as hot as he does. Sacramento gets a lot of triple digit days, sometimes as high as 115, and the air is dry there. But I noticed a huge difference between gravel mulch vs wood mulch; gravel absorbs the heat and “cooks” the roots, so the plants overheat and lose moisture in their stems quickly. Also, the gravel reflects the heat back up to the blooms and fries the petals. I have no gravel mulch in my gardens at all here in Arizona because of the heat factor and I always advise gardeners not to use it unless they’re planting desert plants that thrive in gravel. That’s my opinion based on my personal experience; ymmv.

judijunebug, That is a good thought about the rocks. It regularly clocks in at 140F in the rose bed. But the only fryer is Neil Diamond so I thought that was unusual. I actually find my roses don't do well in my mulch beds. It may be the temp. or the composition of the soil in those areas. Both had a bunch of bushes growing in amended soil before we bought the house but somehow the roses thrive in the rocks and languish in the mulch. I thought they were likely loving the heat above ground and that the rock were potentially keeping the roots cool and moist below ground. Originally I had no disease but that has changed in recent years with black spot and rust starting to show up. I think it may be because the roses are becoming more crowded but also could be that we can't get all the debris out of the rocks between seasons.

Mmm, Judi,

I see quite few homes with roses in gravel/rock beds here and it never made sense to me. To my eyes they look surprisingly decent. How do the roots get oxygen? How are they fertilized? How is organic matter replenished? Doesn’t the reflected heat cook them? Maybe I don’t have to continue to painstakingly re-apply mulch , organic fertilizer, alfalfa tea, seaweed, and compost and just dump a bunch of rocks on mine and be done with it! I have concluded the roses are so thankful that they ended up in the west (as opposed to the humid south and east) that they feel the need to show some gratitude. You never see roses in rock beds in the humid south and east because they’re long dead!

Interesting, Mmmm and Ben. It seems there are so many variables when it comes to gardening and one should never say never. Our local college has a rose garden and every time I’ve seen it, it looks kinda terrible. I blame it on the gravel mulch, and the fact that it’s surrounded by buildings reflecting heat as well. I hate to say it, but it’s a pathetic garden. However, there are likely other factors involved. And if gravel works for you and your roses, I’m not here to tell anyone not to do it.