Software
Houzz Logo Print
claudia_dm_8a7b

Help diagnosing foliage problem

last month

Hello everyone,

I am hoping for some help diagnosing the problem with this rose. It is a Poseidon from Heirloom, planted last fall. It has been really vigorous and prolific but several weeks ago started producing this kind of miniaturized, wavy foliage. All of the new foliage looks like this, but the one cane that gets the most shade and shelter has a more normal shape, just too small. I believe the extreme heat and drought we have been experiencing is contributing but I am wondering if there's something else going on. Soil compaction maybe? This rose is planted in an area that is largely clay but has been amended with some compost and expanded shale. It gets full sun from dawn until mid afternoon, 2-3 PM, then full shade. I have been giving it extra water by hand and by soaker hose, and have given it a couple rounds of fertilizer, but it's still producing the little crinkled leaves. As the leaves age they flatten out a little but never look fully normal. I don't see any bugs or evidence of them.


I figure I probably need to move it where it gets a little less sun but I'd really like to understand if something else is happening. Thanks for reading and I appreciate any insights.







Comments (21)

  • last month

    What area are you, Claudia? Location really helps people help you.

    claudia_dm_8a7b thanked Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
  • last month

    Sorry, I should have included that. I am near the border of Texas/Oklahoma, north of Dallas. We have expansive red clay here, hot summers, mild winters. I should also mention I have many other roses and none of them are doing this.

  • last month
    last modified: last month

    Is there a possibility that some toxic (to a rose), spray hit the foliage in question? In the same vein, has there been a recent application of anything liquid poured upon the soil or dry, granular substance (fertilizer, insecticide, etc.), applied upon or nearby the soil?

    Another thing, has there been a lessening in the amount of hydration through: irrigation, hand watering, etc., that has occurred recently?

    The excessive recent heat may be contributory to the reason for the foliage problem.

    If a rose is over liquid fed, followed by a slacking off of watering, the stressed new foliage will show a strange growth pattern.

    Moses.

    claudia_dm_8a7b thanked Moses, Pitt PA, cold W & warm/humid S z6
  • last month

    Thanks for the reply, Moses. I can't 100% rule out herbicides and I'm starting to think that's the most likely explanation. I'm gardening in a semi rural agricultural area and the wind could be carrying whatever the neighbors are using. After seeing your response and digging some, it does look similar to 2,4-d damage.

  • last month

    Claudia,

    That makes sense. Many posters on this forum have reported such events happening to their roses. The standard treatment is generous watering, and possibly pruning away the afflicted foliage.

    Moses.

    claudia_dm_8a7b thanked Moses, Pitt PA, cold W & warm/humid S z6
  • last month

    Thank you again Moses, I will be trying my best to help it recover with extra careful attention especially to watering. It's a great rose and seemed exceptionally happy in my yard, until it didn't.

  • last month

    I predict a full recovery. I've seen worse cases. Hopefully a repeat in the years ahead will never occur. Is there any way of finding out the source of the herbicide drift, and contacting them requesting more care be taken with future herbicide applications?

    Moses.





    claudia_dm_8a7b thanked Moses, Pitt PA, cold W & warm/humid S z6
  • last month

    I hope the rose will recover over your "winter", Claudia. I think you have a tough climate. Good luck!

    claudia_dm_8a7b thanked Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR
  • last month

    @Moses, Pitt PA, cold W & warm/humid S z6 That's reassuring, I have seen conflicting opinions on if a rose damaged by herbicides will recover. I am hopeful.


    To be fair I'll have to question my husband first in case he sprayed something, but I also have a really great relationship with the neighbors who would be the other most likely source. I think I can probably get it sorted out.


    @Sheila z8a Rogue Valley OR Thanks for the well wishes! It can be a challenging climate but on the plus side we have a really long growing season, which gives me a long time to enjoy roses.

  • last month

    I've seen this in my own collection, and it is almost always the result of a combination of heat stress and thrip damage. I don't see herbicide exposure in those plants. FWIW

    claudia_dm_8a7b thanked Paul Barden
  • last month

    Heat, I think. At least that's what it would be here.

    claudia_dm_8a7b thanked Diane Brakefield
  • last month

    My Boscobel gets like this every summer. I see it occasionally on some of my other roses, but none are affected as badly as Boscobel, who spends the hottest months of every summer looking like this. It looks like it’s on its way out, but once fall comes, it puts out fresh new growth that looks normal. I blame it on the intense heat and high elevation sunlight.

    claudia_dm_8a7b thanked judijunebugarizonazn8
  • last month

    Thank you Paul, Diane, and Judi. I feel pretty certain the heat is at least part of it, or it was a huge coincidence that this started occurring when our temperatures reached the mid to upper nineties. We had been near or above 100 for weeks, now finally back down into the mid nineties again for at least another week. It's not usually this brutal here this late, I have to think relief is around the corner. I checked the buds for thrips once before but I will do some more searching.


    Judi, I'm very glad you mentioned Boscobel because I have one on the way this fall and your comment has made me reconsider where I will plant it.

  • last month

    @Diane Brakefield My problem is my property is currently almost completely devoid of shade, and the prime real estate on the east side of the house is already overstuffed. The plan is to move some of the less favored current residents that are more tolerant of heat/drought to make room, and I will probably try to pop Boscobel in one of those spots. I knew when I ordered it that it was a bit risky for this area, but unfortunately I can't stop thinking about it and my attempts to satisfy that obsession by substituting other roses have failed. I will show my Boscobel photos of yours and kindly request it not embarrass me :) Some DAs do well enough for me here that I wanted to try. All your photos are just so beautiful and I hope someday to have a garden that otherworldly. I do keep hearing how nice Golden Celebration is so maybe I will give that one a try too someday.

  • last month

    Claudia, Boscobel is not a good fall bloomer here at all. It has a couple of dried up blooms currently, so don't feel badly about your garden. My entire front yard is being shaded out by big trees, and every year it gets worse. Golden Celebration is probably one of my best bloomers of Austin or any other type. I highly recommend it. I think it's quite heat tolerant. You have no shade and I have too much, and it's shade I have no control over. We gardeners always have lots of gardening problems, though I suppose there is some perfect gardening Mecca out there. Anyone living in such a Mecca, please post your photos for us to be envious of. Diane

    claudia_dm_8a7b thanked Diane Brakefield
  • last month

    My Poseidon’s are exhibiting those dwarf, crinkly, crunched up foliage, too. We have had a hot dry summer/fall. Thrips can be a problem, but usually in June most. I do use pesticides.

    claudia_dm_8a7b thanked kentucky_rose zone 6
  • last month

    Hopefully your rose will recover as my Boscobel has. This is a photo from my morning walk. Not a great photo, but you can see that the foliage is looking normal and it’s starting its fall flush.

    claudia_dm_8a7b thanked judijunebugarizonazn8
  • last month

    Thank you kentucky_rose for your reply, it sounds like maybe this is just an issue with Poseidon in heat. I appreciate the confirmation and now I can stop worrying so much about it. I dissected 8 more buds at different points of development and didn't find any thrips, and Poseidon's neighbors Betty White and Francis Meilland are clear too as far as I can tell.


    Judi, your Boscobel looks lovely and I never would have guessed it was looking anything less than perfect this summer. Thank you for sharing, I find it reassuring. By Wednesday we're supposed to dip back into the 80s and I am hoping for a nice fall display. Even in the heat Poseidon kept putting out a ton of blooms, just on the smaller side.

  • last month

    Claudia, my Poseidon does the exact same dwarf crinkly leaf thing every time we get a long hot dry stretch, then pushes out perfectly normal growth once the weather cools down. After reading kentucky_rose's comment it really does seem like a Poseidon quirk more than anything you're doing wrong. I would hold off moving it and see how it flushes out this spring before deciding.


    claudia_dm_8a7b thanked asjad492
  • last month

    Thank you @asjad492 for the confirmation! Do you happen to know what temperature seems to trigger it for you? Mine was doing fine until we got to around 95ish for the daytime highs, and the lows at night were staying in the low 80s so it didn't have much time to recover. I am happy to report that the weather cooled off enough to let it start flushing out in normal foliage and also some blooms that are still on the small side but otherwise look fine. I wish I had known about this quirk before planting it! I made the regrettable decision to put it in one of the most prominent spots in my front yard, right outside the door. The heat stress hopefully won't always be this extreme, but I am afraid it will be a problem every summer.


    For anyone still following or reading at a later date, I'm adding below a newer photo of the fresh foliage coming in over the tiny crinkly leaves. It was just like flipping a switch between tiny to normal.



    @Diane Brakefield I got my Boscobel in, still agonizing over where to plant it, and I'm afraid you have convinced me to get a Golden Celebration. I keep putting one in my cart and then trying to talk myself out of it, but I have been wanting a rose that color and your endorsement goes a long way!