Donna,

"Zinnia Aztec Sunset to Zinnia Chippendale. (I'm especially interested in these, because I'm thinking they would make a good replacement for rudbeckias that don't do well here.)"

Aztec Sunset has short 12-inch to 15-inch plants, while Zinnia Chippendale is slightly taller at 16 inches. But Chippendale has essentially single flowers with a single coloration of yellow based mahogany, while Aztec Sunset has double flowers in a variety of color combinations. Aztec Sunset is basically a shorter version of Persian Carpet. I think the Aztec Sunset flowers may be a bit larger than Persian Carpet. Some of the Aztec Sunset plants are quite compact.

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The flowers of both Persian Carpet and Aztec Sunset are too small for my taste. If you are interested in bi-color or tricolor zinnias with larger flowers, the Whirligig zinnia strain might be to your liking. Their plants are about 2 feet high, and if you pinch them, they can be quite bushy. Some strains of Whirligigs have quite a few single flowers, which can look quite good. Single flowers don't hide their petals with other petals. I prefer the double flowered Whirligigs, although not necessarily extremely double. Some of my favorite home-hybridized zinnias have had a selected Whirligig parent.

ZM

Donna,

Additional Mexican zinnia candidates are Jazzy Mix and Old Mexico.

ZM

Thank you, zenman. This is great info. I surely do like these hot colored bicolors. I am thinking they will be my fall "mums" this year.

Tell me, what do you think of Thompson and Morgan seed? The last I ordered was several years ago, and I was disappointed in the germination rates I got, but I was only starting out in working with seed then. Since then, I have read somewhere here on GW that some believe their seed is inferior. What has been your experience? They have such a great selection...

Donna,

"Tell me, what do you think of Thompson and Morgan seed? The last I ordered was several years ago, and I was disappointed in the germination rates I got..."

I don't have anything specific against Thompson & Morgan, but I have done very little business with them. I did order some Scabiosa Flowered zinnia seed from their affiliate, Value Seed, a few years ago and, like all commercial Scabiosa Flowered zinnia strains, only about 10% of them were "on type", so I pulled the off-type ones out. But I was happy with the remaining on-type ones.

T&M don't have a very good record in the Garden Watchdog, with 4 positive, 7 neutral, and 14 negative reports for the last year. That's troubling. However I am skeptical about the Garden Watchdog rating system.

"They have such a great selection..."

Hazzards and Parks have a better selection than T&M. So does GeoSeed, although I haven't purchased from them yet. I get most of my seeds from Burpee, Parks, Hazzards, Johnny's Selected Seeds, Stokes, and Harris. I also purchase Zig Zag zinnias from Veseys, but they are discontinuing them, so I guess my Zig Zag purchase this year will be the last one. I don't know of any other source for Zig Zag zinnias, although there might be a European source. Zig Zags are similar to Whirligigs, but in my experience, not identical. This was one of my Zig Zags.

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Some of the Zig Zag flower forms seem to be noticeably different from the Whirligigs. But, like the Whirligigs, they come in a wide variety of color combinations. This was another Zig Zag.

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Thompson & Morgan are the originators of the Aztec Sunset zinnias. However, I got my Aztec Sunsets from Parks, but they have apparently discontinued them. Hazzards offers Aztec Sunset, but the seeds may actually come from the T&M seed grower. Hazzards caters to wholesale growers, but they don't have a minimum order and they don't mind selling to home gardeners who need larger amounts of seed. They don't sell small packets.

If you wish, give T&M a chance. I just wouldn't get seeds from them exclusively.

ZM
(not associated with any product or vendor mentioned)

Donna - Profusion Yellow was bred and developed by Sakata Seed (a Japanese Company). They were the first breeding company to introduce the interspecific zinnias to the mass market, with their introductions of the Profusion Cherry and Profusion Orange in 1999 which were AAS winners. Zahara Yellow was bred and developed by Pan American Seed Company (West Chicago IL) and is a COMPLETELY different line of genetics from the Profusions. There was never really a "Highlight Yellow" - it was never anything more than a rename of the Zahara Yellow. Burpee is who offered the Highlight, and they are a sister company to PanAmerican. Burpee is a retail distribution company that offers seed from many, many seed breeders, and they frequently take the liberty to rename things from what the breeding company calls it, in order to try to make it seem like they have something unique and different. The breeding companies do not sell directly to greenhouses or people. They sell only to distributors like Burpee, Ball, Geo, Harris, Johnny's, etc.
Zinnia Zowie to Swizzle can only be compared by flower color. Swizzle Scarlet & Yellow is 12-12" with a 10"-12" spread, and Zowie Yellow Flame is 24-30" with a 24-27" spread. They were BOTH bred by Goldsmith Seeds in Gilroy CA, by an amazing plant breeder by the name of Todd Perkins.

This is really interesting and helpful goblugal. I had pretty well figured out that the Profusions and Zaharas had different breeders and/or genetics. Last year when yellow was added to the Profusion line, I assumed (incorrectly) that it was the same as the Zinnia Highlight I had grown the year before. I chanced upon the tidbit of info that Highlight and Zahara yellow are one and the same on the internet.

You know, it seems to me that these companies are "breeding" more ill will through confusion and aggravation than they are gaining from this kind of advertising. In this case, both plants are excellent, but the colors are definitely different. Zahara is a cool yellow and Profusion is a warm yellow. That means they have very different uses, and that is GOOD news for me, the gardener. You'd think they could have shared this good news as a sales tool. I think it's a shame I had to chance upon this information by accident and happenstance.

Zenman, I agree with you about Hazzard's. I order from them alot, and really appreciate their prices and their flat rate shipping. And, you are correct. They do, far and away, have the best selection of all others. I may just order everything from them. It will only be my third order from them in three months.:)

I never heard of Hazzards, but I have ordered from Parks and various others. I found that I didn't have a great germination rate with my Parks seeds. Did better with trades from GW members. :) So was it their seed or my growing methods? Seemed odd to me that the same seeds I germinated from trades with no problem at all were ones I also purchased from Parks that didn't germinate. Hmmmm..... I've ordered from Henry Field's and Gurney's and did okay with those.

I have a lot of Zinnia seeds I received this year from trades since that's mostly what I asked for. :) I LOVE Zinnias!

I really like the Zig Zag Zinnias, Zenman. Those are beautiful!!! I wish they still sold seeds for those.

Some of the Zinias I'm going to sow indoors soon are:
Old Mexico
Carousel Mix
Red Lime Queen
Red Spider
Envy Giant
Scarlet Oklahoma
Orange Profusion
Yellow Profusion
Profusion Fire
Profusion Pink
Profusion Apricot
Peppermint Stick (yellow)
Red Benary's Giant
Pink Benary's Giant
Miss Wilmott
Persian Carpet
Canary Bird
Whirlygig
Inca
Orange King
Zohara Yellow
Cut and Come Again
Zahara Rose Starlight (will try this one again!)
....and then some fuschia ones that I don't have a name for plus a few others.

With those varieties, is there anything I should know so that I can acheive good germination and growth? Or any I should just ditch and not even try to grow? :) I saw the negative comment about Profusion Yellow mentoned above, so are the Profusions overall a pretty vareity to grow, or no?

Will go check out Hazzards now. Thanks for mentioning them!

Alicia

Here is a link that might be useful: My flower pics

Alicia,

You have a fascinating album of floral pictures. I was particularly fascinated by your picture of Centaurea 'Mt. Bluet', which I am taking the liberty of linking in here:

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That is just a marvelous flower form, and I admire it very much. Some day I hope to breed a strain of zinnias that looks like that. As a starting point I am using the scabiosa flowered zinnias, crossing them with other zinnias in hopes of getting much larger florets that will dominate the flower form. I have made some progress in that direction.

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That flower was a little the worse for the wear, but those florets are larger and more developed than most scabious zinnia florets. However, they have a long ways to go to be in a class with your Centaurea.

"I really like the Zig Zag Zinnias, Zenman. Those are beautiful!!! I wish they still sold seeds for those. "

You could get some similar bicolored and tricolored zinnia blooms in your Carousel Mix and Whirligig zinnias.

"Some of the Zinnias I'm going to sow indoors soon are..."

That's an impressive list of zinnias. If your bees do some cross pollination for you, you could get some interesting hybrids in your saved seeds this year. Or you could hand-pollinate a few yourself. Bees don't always make the best crosses, and they keep lousy records. (grin)

ZM

lady alicia, in answer to your question on the Profusions. I have grown them for years, and they are excellent flowers, but I have a few reservations.

The Cherry Profusions have a bad habit of fading badly in my heat. They fade to the point that they are unattractive. I am going to try the Zahara cherry this year to see if it is better.

The straight Orange and Apricot Profusions also fade in my heat, though not as badly as Cherry. Fire is spectacular and never gives up the entire season. It is pretty nigh onto the perfect flower, as is the White Profusion.

You must remember that my growing season for zinnias runs from April to November, with sometimes 3 solid months of above 90 in the daytime and hardly below 70 at night. I suspect that more northern growers do not experience the problems I have.

The yellow Profusion, as I noted above, gets taller than the other Profusions I have grown, tends to flop from the center, and had problems with black spots on the leaves late in the season. That being said, it was still a blooming machine and did awfully well in my brutal climate. On the other hand, the Zahara Yellows that I grew the year before had none of PY's problems, therefore, I rate them higher.

You need to know that Profusions have a smaller sized bloom than the familiar tall ones like Benary's Giants. I love their short size and smaller blooms for edgings in my borders. The front edges are, in my opinion, the most important plants in the border, as any imperfections show up first at the close range from which they are viewed. In my opinion only, I think the smaller bloom size is in a more pleasing scale with their shorter stature. This, of course, is strictly a matter of taste.

Zenman, after reading your post yesterday, I went ahead and ordered from Hazzards. I got Chippendale, Zowie Yellow, Aztec Sunset, Queen Lime, Queen Red Lime, and threw up my hands and ordered Starlight Rose too. Lest you think I will have a garish mishmash, these will be scattered throughout three large borders, and some will be planted for the fall garden only. I am very excited to see how they all do! Hazzards did not have Old Mexico, but that was the only one on my list they did not have. I will trial it next year.

Oh, geez, Donnabasket. I could have given you some of the Starlight Rose. I collect all of my seeds in the fall to trade. I think I may have some of the Old Mexico, but I'll have to check and see. I had gotten some of the Queen Red Lime too! I didn't realize you were wanting those. I like to trade seeds as it keeps me busy during the long winter months. :)

Thanks for the info about the Profusions. I got quite a bit of those in my trades that I was going to plant. I may hold off on a few of them after reading your posts. My growing season is pretty much done by October. I do a lot of container gardening, so I like to put some of my Profusions in pots, but I think this year I will edge some of my beds with them. :) I like how they're low-growing also.

Thanks, again, for the info. :)

Thank you, alicia, for the offer. Maybe next year. I think I read somewhere that you were looking for the old fashioned yellow crookneck squash seed. I emailed you, but it seems the GW is having some technical difficulties. Anyway, if you want some seed, I'd be glad to send you some.

Thanks for the compliment on my picture, Zenman. I apologize, though. I just came back and read your post. I missed it the last time I was here and posted.

You'll have to send me a picture if you ever achieve the Centaurea in the Zinnias. I really enjoy the Mt. Bluets I grow. I think they're so unique! I love the Scabiosa-flowered Zinnia you have pictured. That's gorgeous.

I'd love to try the pollination myself just to see what I come up with from all the Zinnias I'll be growing. I think that would be such an achievement! Of course, I have a lot of reading up to do on that, but I really envy you for all of the flowers you have grown!

Alicia

Alicia,

"You'll have to send me a picture if you ever achieve the Centaurea in the Zinnias."

When I do I will be proudly posting pictures of them here in the Annuals forum. And probably in the Hybridizing forum as well.

"I'd love to try the pollination myself just to see what I come up with from all the Zinnias I'll be growing. I think that would be such an achievement!"

I was looking at that list of zinnias you will be growing, and it is mind boggling how many different crosses you could make in that list.

"Of course, I have a lot of reading up to do on that..."

Actually, not a lot of reading is required. Perhaps none. It is pretty easy to start cross pollinating zinnias. Zinnias produce fresh pollen each morning. You can use an artist's brush to dab in the pollen of the florets.

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And then just touch the brush to the stigmas of the zinnia that you want to cross pollinate.

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Or you can use tweezers, twissors, or forceps to pick a whole pollen bearing floret.

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And then rub that floret on the stigmas of the chosen female plant.

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Either way works fine. I use them both. If it is windy, I prefer to use the forceps technique. It is windy a lot here in Kansas. You will probably want to label the seed heads that you have pollinated, by using some technique of your choosing. You will get some "free" cross pollination from the bees, but bees keep lousy records (grin). Don't forget to save the seeds from the flowers you pollinated. There is a lot more information scattered throughout the various parts of the It can be fun to breed your own zinnias message threads here in the Annuals forum, but that is optional reading. The basics of crossing zinnias are quite simple. The results can be quite interesting, and full of surprises.

ZM