I winter sowed some this year with much success. I put them out in mid-February and they just started coming up this week. No nicking or soaking required.

i've never nicked or soaked either.

Last year i put a handful of seeds in a big flower pot and just covered them with soil... I had hundreds germinate.

many of mine grow from the seeds that fell the year before too.

if you need more seeds, i have TONS.

tcs,
How long did it take for your seeds to come up? Do they need a cold spell before they'll germinate? I wonder if it is too warm where I am. Thanks.

They don't need a cold spell. I also just poke them into the ground about May 1. Perhaps your soil is too compact? Mind is sandy.

Gardeniarose: I haven't grown 4 o'clocks (mirabilis jalapa) but Thompson and Morgan's germination database says they need light to germinate (so don't cover the seed with soil) and that germination ocurs in 7-21 days. Another site also suggested soaking the seed for 24 hours before planting to help soften the seed coat.

It sounds like others here have had success poking the seed into soil. Since you're still trying to get at least one itty bitty seed to germinate, maybe you'd want to try the unburied seed method.

Be aware, however, that once you get that plant to grow, you may regret it. I understand it self sows like crazy and forms tubers underground. And since they aren't frozen out here in Florida, they REALLY take over and the tubers get huge.

June

when i was out surveying my flower beds yesterday, I have about 10 already growing from last years plants.

they fall into my "mulch" the big chunky wood chips, so they don't get any light.

This is the earliest in the year i've ever seen them (this will be my 3rd year growing them.

If i recall correctly, they germinate in less then 10 days. (the ones i put in that pot last year)

I had one this year that I did in the house, it germinated in about 4 days.

what June said about the tubulars... they do get BIG. I had one that was against my foundation, and the tubular did not die over the winter... just from one year, it was about 2" in diameter, and when i attempted to dig it out (originally i had no idea what it was) it was over 5" long and i didnt even get it all.

so -- be wary in warmer climates, they can get invasive... but i have found when mine get really big, i just snap off larger branches.

they are very pretty and have a nice scent to them... and i hear they attract and "kill" Japanese beatles....

HTH

Terese

handee...I have sandy soil too. I think my problem is that I've been covering them with about 1/4" of soil. Juneroses told me that they need light to germinate. But then again, tcs says his did not need any light. Maybe I just got a bad batch of sees. I'll try with a new batch.

tcs...thank you for sharing all your experiences. Hopefully if I grow them in a really big pot, they will be contained. If I finally get them to germinate, will I find tubers in the bottom of the pot when they outgrow it? Do they need to be chilled in the fridge to simulate a winter...since I live in Florida, or will they just keep growing all year? Thanks again!

>>will I find tubers in the bottom of the pot when they outgrow it?

this I can't tell you. All i know is from my experience -- all the ones i germinated in the flower pot were transplanted (which for me, they don't transplant well)

the one where I had a tubular that survived our winter, it must have been protected along the foundation. I did find a few tubulars that did NOT survive our winter, they were found a long my chain link fence, where they would not have been protected during the winter.

Being zone10... yours just may survive all seasons... though mine do tend to wilt in the really hot weather.

hopefully June can answer your other questions, since she is in FLA too.

good luck

Terese

I got a note from a gal in zone 9b/10a and she said hers do die back once it hits around 40F.

she also believes that all hers come back from seeds, not tubulars... and she has no troubles getting them to germinate.

Hi Terese. I think I'm going to pick up a new batch of seeds today. Maybe my seeds are no good. Or maybe they just don't like me. Hah! Thanks again.

Did you see the four o'clocks with LIME green foliage being offered by Parks? The variety is called 'Limelight' and has magenta flowers. I might have to try some of those. They do self-sow freely in the gardens here (at least they did for my friend) but I haven't been tempted to try them myself until I saw the ones with vivid foliage. Here's a link:

Here is a link that might be useful: Limelight Four o'clocks

{{gwi:4128}}

Don't know if mine are 'limelight' or not, but they have the magenta flowers

Wow, that's a nice shrub. Huge. I wonder if the pot I have picked out for them is big enough. It is about 3' deep x 3' in diameter. Thanks for the pic!

I was scanning a Wal-Mart seed rack earlier this week and noticed several varieties of 4 o'clock seeds available, including the Limelight. These were seed packs with the Wal-Mart name on them. I don't recall the specific price but it was over $1.00 but definitely less than $2.00. - June

I'm having a problem getting these to germinate as well. I did winter sow a few seeds and none of them germinated. So I thought since they self sow for other people I would just throw some seeds into the area I wanted them, some of them I pushed down into the dirt, some I didn't - there are NO seedlings to be found anywhere. Maybe our weather has to warm up first, but I'm hesitant to put out more seed for if they do germinate I will be overrun with them.

It was one of the plants I wanted most this year so I'm really disappointed!

Hi bubba. It really is disappointing, isn't it?! I used up a whole bag of seeds and none of them came up. Someone said they need light to germinate. That's one thing I haven't tried. I think you're just supposed to poke them into the soil but leave them exposed. One of these days I'll pick up another bag of seeds and try again. Good luck. Let me know if you find something that works.

I had the same problem with no 4 o'clocks germinating this year (my first year trying them) and I wondered what had gone wrong until yesterday when I went out and found that 3 containers of them had all sprouted! So maybe it's just a matter of temperatures...

Well I'm still waiting too! I wintesowed a gal. jug each of the pink and white in January. They were covered and no sign of germination yet. I sowed some more a few days ago in 2 different containers and this time only pushing them into the surface...also sowed some more labled as Fushia 4 O'clocks in a trade. Something sprouted but look to small to be Mirablis (sigh).

BTW that picture is absolutley gorgeous!! I can only hope.

Vera

If it's very small then it's surely not it... the sprouts are nice sturdy looking things with great big seed leaves. I've planted out several today! Can't wait til all these babies grow up!!

Vera,

here are my sprouts.
they are from seeds fallen from last year.

the bunch that is by my foundation - they came up about a month ago, and withstood the really cold weather we had for 10 days in early March.

the lil one on the right -- that is about 2 days old.
the other already has it's second set of leaves.
{{gwi:4130}}

where it was mentioned "they need light"
all of these are on the south side of my house... so I guess they do get "light" (originally when i read that, i was thinking "glow lights") and it's possible mine come up early is they are more protected by the foundation, warmer and get a lot of sun - which warms the soil earlier.

if anyone needs/wants seeds... i still have tons (that's my plant posted above) ... and if anyone is in the chicago area... you can come over and dig up seedlings... my neighbor has tons too, which she also pulls out the excess.

My 4 o'clocks return every year from seed that has fallen the previous year. I originally planted tubers that came to flower in white, yellow, and pink however only the white self sows. Is this unusual. Also, I love the big shrub it makes and the delicious fragrance, but I have to sneak up on them between 7:00 and 7:15 pm. Do they open very seldom?

Are the white ones fragrant too? (do you have a photo... i've never seen white?)

mine open probably mid to late afternoon.... My DH watches them more closely than i do... and they do have a nice fragrance to them.

then also tend to wilt a bit when it's too hot, but once the sun starts going down, they perk right back up again.

mine get southern exposure.

I'm doing yellow this year too. I hope it's a nice bold yellow.. that will be pretty.

Yes, the white are very sweet smelling. Several years ago I bought tubers at the New England Flower Show, not knowing what colors they would be. All the colors were lovely. The yellow was almost the color of a buttercup. Sorry, I don't have a picture. The have self sown each year, but only the white returns.

Thanks tcs!! I wonder what the heck is sprouting in that container of mine LOL! I did a few containers that day...I bet I sprinkled seed for one over the real 4 O'clock seed! Oh boy...
BUT good news!! I finally got a single sprout in the latest sown Pink 4 O'clock container as of this morning!! It took no time at all...maybe 8-9 days. They were only pushed into the medium, but not covered. Hope tomorrow morning I find more and would like to see some in the white flowered container too :D

This is far out!!!

Vera

A long time ago we had white, yellow, fuschia, and streaked versions of the above. I tried starting them again a few years ago. Got yellow, cream, pink, lavender, and fuschia the first year. Yellow came back strongest, a few creams as well. The next year I tried Broken Colors, but none of those reseeded, nor have the creams since that one year.

My yellows are awesome though, and get bigger each year. When they wilt I water them (and everything else) and they bounce right back.

I've got my "yellow" in the ground already (germinated in the house) and i've got tons (probably 50) of magenta seedlings that sprouted from fallen seeds... i'm gonna have to start pulling them up or they will over take my flower bed.

jrstark-- i'm very excited about the yellow. I hope it does well.

Don't winter-sow four-o-clocks(unless your winters are hot!). They need warmth to germinate. Keep in mind that if they self-sow, that means they fall from the plant into the soil during their growing season and are not actually buried. They like some light to germinate, but when the seeds of my plants fall, they are sometimes pressed slightly into the soil by rain, etc., as the months go by. They stay in the soil from the time they drop, and that's quite a few months between their drop time and their next blooming season. Four-o-clocks make black seeds fairly quickly all through the growing season, and they are easy to see on the plant because they are not tiny seeds. As soon as a flower fades and falls off, the plant is already making seed at the base of that flower and it does not take a long time for the seed to be ready to fall. If you collect them wait until the seeds are black and almost ready to fall from their little seed jackets. If you want to collect and save the seeds, it's easy to do, but store them in a small paper bag and let them dry or they may mold and rot indoors. So when they drop into mulch or soil, unless they wash away (and sometimes that happens and they come up elsewhere), they stay somewhere fairly near the surface of the soil so light can get to them. IF you get too much rain, however, they may rot and not come up the next year. If you plant them don't cover them with heavy soil. A lightweight seed starting medium would be okay, but don't bury them deeply. Wait until much warmer weather to sow them outdoors. Wonderful plants! I love the variety called Salmon Sunset, but I plant all varieties. Limelight is a great combination of brilliant but lighter colored leaves and hot pink flowers. There are also varieties that have marbled flowers and they are lovely, too. They are all beautiful and smell heavenly, but remember they do not open until around 4pm in the afternoon or on overcast days a little earlier, perhaps, depending upon the light. They attract moths at night where I live in zone 9a (in Texas).

Best wishes,

deb