Hi... glad you're getting interested in growing bonsai! Just a couple of things here... You say you've read about the "soil, moss and tools", and while I know you've read about more than those, I was a bit concerned as you did mention the moss, as if it was important. It isn't, not even a smidgen - it's usually just thrown on 'show' trees for photographs, or else may occasionally grow naturally on individual trees outdoors, but it's the last thing you should be thinking about (yet, anyhow), but there are so many others you should. OK, now is literally the worst time of year to be digging (or repotting) anything at all, so I hope you were talking about nursery trees (for this week). As far as dormancy goes, people do various things, such as sinking the pots into much larger containers of whatever kind (with their own decent drain holes) and stuffing mulch in between, but otherwise allowing the pots to stay outside in a somewhat protected place but not from snow, which is a great insulator. Sometimes a hay bale corral is used, or a dug-out cold frame. Unheated sheds or porches are good too. Anything that grows naturally in your zone should not be brought inside at alll. And water only when the soil is a) not frozen, or b) thawed and dried enough (they can stay pretty soggy for a long time) to need it. As far as light/sun goes in winter, trees will need it only from Feb. onward. In any case though, I don't know what you've been reading online (where) but I do suggest you try www.bonsai4me.com, www.evergreengardenworks.com, and www.bonsaitalk.com as I have the feeling you've maybe not always been in the right 'place', plus you really should start reading as much as possible (books) and see about joining a local club - I think you'll find there's more to starting out, never mind the future, than you've found so far.

Hi lucy,
Thank you, for you reply to my post. I guess I should have clarified the statement moss, I have read that a lot of people use Sphagnum moss for their potting soil, and that some use other type of soil media in their pots. I have watched a bunch of videos and it seems like everyone have their own ideas on what type of soil to use, but I do understand that the moss used as decoration on top of the soil is just that and not necessary for good results. Believe me when I say I am a Newbie to this wonderful subject and sure donÂt mind if you slap my hand and tell me for goodness sakes donÂt do the following mistakes.

I do plan on getting a nursery grown plant, something that will live here in our zone 6, but something that is a little unusual. I did understand that digging and moving a tree that is already in the ground is risky this time of year, so off to the nursery I go. I really have decided I do not want an evergreen type of tree, I really would like a tree that will go through the stages of budding, leafing out and maybe flowering and then a fall color. I am thinking about getting a, "now hold on to your seat," a Golden Raintree, I have them in the back yard and they are messy however they far enough away from the pool and driveway that they are not a bother to me, and when they bloom that a just amazing. I like the compact size of the tree, I like the flowers on it and I just like the shape of the trees and they are very hardy I really donÂt do much at all to these trees and the bloom great every year. With all that said I might see something else I like or if you have another idea on what type of a zone 6 tree would be good for a beginner I am all ears.

Thanks for your reply, looking forward to a Bonsai project, however maybe I should wait until next spring what is your idea on that?

Well, if there's a raintree at the nursery, and you can resist messing with it for now, get it, but choose for bonsai characteristics like a little 'movement' in the trunk (unless you want an upright), and good nebari around a fattish trunk. Or you could wait til next year... There are loads of trees that'll work in your zone, and I also think you're smart not to start with a conifer as they can be a bit harder to deal with at first.

Lucy,

Thanks again for your post I am going to the nursey and look around and see what they have on hand, I did call and they do have several sizes of the Golden Rain tree. I am not going to decide yet until I see what else they have in stock. But kind of thinking that is what I would like to try.

I am not sure of the potting media as it looks like people do use different types, just depending on what web site you look at. What do you think about using the Sphagnum moss or should I go a different route?

Skip it entirely and go get (for now as it's easiest, most accessible wherever you are) some aquarium gravel (I like the brown/tan/caramel mix for its natural colors and size) plus a bag of Perlite from anywhere bagged 'soil' is sold, plus some 'Orchid Mix" which is great for the bark component. You can mix ~ 60% gravel, 20% each of Perlite and the bark.

Lucy,

I would like to thank you, for all your input about this amazing hobby. I got my tree the other day, and I did decide on the Golden Raintree, the nursery did have most everything I needed. I did not buy the gravel there because it was way overpriced and I got almost the same size and color at the local Walmart. The local nursery here is a pretty nice place and they do have a good guarantee on their plants. However after talking with the nursery owner and telling him what I was planning on doing with the tree his guarantee went from one year down to 30 days, however I understand why he would not back his tree with much of a guarantee after we talked about what I was planning on doing with the tree.

When I got the tree home I placed the plant on the patio which receives the morning sun and from noon on it only gets indirect sun. I watered the tree with SuperThrive which I use often on my plants. Then Sunday evening I got everything together cut the root ball down, washed the roots good and potted the tree in itÂs new Bonsai type planter I then mixed SuperThrive with the water gave it a good watering. First thing the morning I took a look at the plant and it has not even wilted even a little bit. I did mist it a little with a spray bottle before the sun came up.

I do have another question, the tree was under shade cloth, so should I leave it on the patio for several days then, maybe leave it out in full sun for about 3 or 4 hours a day then put it back on the patio, until it total acclimates to the container and the sun? Also, I did not do any cutting on the foliage I only cut a few leaves that were already yellow, I figured that pruning should only be done next spring is that correct? I just figured that I just need to keep the plant healthy and leave it alone and let it store as much energy as possible to get it through the winter months. If I am incorrect in my thinking please straighten me out. Or if anyone else has any advice or comments please feel free to post them, I am new at trying this so IÂm looking for people who will give me advice.

Well, if it was in full sun at the nursery, I wouldn't fuss too much, but it is best to acclimate trees to midday sun slowly. You can prune or trim little twiggy foliage to neaten things up, but early next spring is the best time for major work. You sound like you're doing great, so don't fall into the killing-with-kindness trap of fussing too much. The tree should be fine.

Lucy,

Just wanted to let you know, that everything with my tree is going just great it is putting out new leaves, and looks to be happy. I find myself wanting to baby it but, I have all but ignored it, other than watering.

Now that I know it is going to live at least this season, is there anything I need to do like give it some fertlizer, or just leave it alone and let it do it's thing until next spring.

Thanks for all your advice, maybe next spring I will try something else.

It's really hard, isn't it? But if you're looking for permission to fuss, you won't get it from me. Let it be and it'll do it's best for you.

Hmmmmm, I seem to be following Lucy around since re-joining the forum. I'll give her this, she does have a brain upstairs.

The one thing I learned about soil mix is keep it simple, the old Avon principal. For about 20 years I used Haydite, which is a small cubed clay product like little squares and pine bark. The Haydite was uniform but could only be bought in one little place in Ohio--a substitute would be pea-gravel. The pine bark I bought by the bag or the ton, dried it then sieved it to take out the dust and the coarse (large) pieces. What I was left with was a non-uniform bunch of 1/8th to 1/4 inch bark pieces to mix with the Haydite as soil.

The soil mix was 70 (Haydite)/30 for conifers and junipers, just the opposite for leaved trees. Yes, the pine bark dissolves over time, this is why you repot every year or two. It also feeds the tree as it breaks down, imagine that!!!

What you get is a very lose and well drained soil mix that will make any tree thrive (they produce root systems like a bandit too).

Over-wintering:
I had a sealed up polly-house for this but I also overwinted 60-70 trees in Pa. One tree is very simple.
Pick a shrub in your yard with a low overhanging branch or a wall facing south, build up a little 'nest' of mulch and settle the pot in so that it will drain, cover the pot up to the base of the tree or a little higher and walk away. Check it in the spring after the last hard frost then move it out to full sun. It's dormant so you don't have to suppliment what mother nature does, what's important is that it does not receive any direct sunlight during this time.

Trivia question: what is the MOST common Bonsai tool in the world?
Bob

okay my juniper hass been very sick lately i think it almost diesd like all the branvhest almost fell off turned brown but now its regrowing itself as you know winter is comming soon and i dont know what to do i read somwhere that u got to put something ontop of the soil before winter so it doesent freeeze or something so what should i do i keep it all year out side and this is my first winter for my tree since i got it so what should i do?

Kostyantyn - You're in NJ, and have time to do the right thing, so relax first of all. You've given no info. on where the tree's growing now in terms of outside, inside, on a balcony, in the sun (or not), etc. etc. nor how you're taking care of it otherwise. I suspect it got brown from being watered too often (the usual reason) so keep that in mind. I also imagine it's in a little pot, probably in soil that's cheap (how it came) and in spring - not now - you should repot into a mix of mostly grit with a little bark and perlite in there, to allow water to drain right through quickly and not rot roots. In November (not before though - your tree has to be allowed to go dormant - put the pot into a one quite a bit larger - with its own good drain holes - that's full of mulch, and put some (1") on top of the soil, keeping the whole thing in maybe a shed, unheated porch, a garage, etc. til March. Once the soil freezes, do not water at all unless it thaws completely and dries out more than it's wet.
Do you know it would be a lot easier to undertstand your note if you used some punctuation (like commas and periods)?

k so i keep it on an unheated porch i changed its soil to a much beter one and the pot is much bigger also it was kinda brown but it grew back and i repoted in i think last spring like the one before this summer passed 2008 spring ast month and so far it drains quick i check if i have to water it everyday and you said i have to put like mucl or something in the soil or on top of it?

Kos - Unless you make more of an effort to slow down and type properly I can't help you - it's like trying to read Martian!

okay i will try =(
okay basicaly i changed the pot to a new one, and i also changed the soil, because the other one smelled bad and the roots began to rot. Also now my tree began to regrow and the last time i repoted it it was the last month of spring of 2008. Next my stree is on a non heated porch and there are like vines going down the roof blocking the sunlight but it's like a plant or somthing it will dry up soon it does that every year. My question is i do not know what to do during the winter you told me to put some mulch in it or on top of it? thats what i dont understand so do i put some special type of mulch or it does not matter and how am i sopose put the mulch mix it with the soil or just on top of the soil?
o and sorry about the typing thing im just not used to typing like this.
o and later if you need to see some pictures of the tree or where it is outside just tell me ill try to get them.

Kos, do you recognize this:- "put the pot into a one quite a bit larger - with its own good drain holes - that's full of mulch, and put some (1") on top of the soil," i don't want to repeat everything, after all... The idea is to protect the pot and roots from the worst of the cold, so having it in a large container full of mulch is one way to do that. If you have some place indoors like a basement (cantina?) that stays above 25 F. but below 40 F over the winter, that might be an idea as well, but not many people have such a place.

k thanks

o yea 1 more question do i have to take out the mulch after the winter?

Remove the pot from the mulch bed and remove whatever is on top that's not original soil. Yes.

Hi all. I have a juniper bonsai as well, and this will be my first winter. I have read the previous thread and just want to ask a couple follow up questions. I live in Cincinnati (zone 6), and my juniper is currently doing very well growing on our covered porch. It faces east and gets direct sun from the early morning to about 12 or 1, after which it recieves only indirect light. I water it every few days and give fertilizer every couple weeks or so.

Am I correct in assuming that placing it in the larger pot with mulch will work in my zone? I also wonder the best place to keep it. Should I place it along the south wall of our detached garage? It still gets some direct sunlight. Or would it be better inside the garage (with very little light)? If inside, should it be near the window to recieve some light, or does it not need it in dormancy?

I also have several small ficus that I am growing to train for bonsai. I havn't done anythign with them yet, as they are still very young and small. Do they need any special care for the winter?

Thanks for any responses. Just reading previous posts has helped me get started this year.

The ficus are tropicals and absolutely should be inside now until after the last frost in spring (May/June). You said you water the juniper every few days... based on what? What kind of mix is it in? Both of those matter, as just watering sort of for the heck of it is not how it's done, but a lot depends on what it's planted in. How big is the pot? If it's a 2-3 gal. thing (still in a big nursery pot) then you don't need to do anything, but if it's in a little bonsai pot do the larger container and mulch as above. South walls are not good, because the trees can easily heat up during a spring thaw, and start to push new growth, but if there's another freeze, it'll all be killed, so the north side is always better then. If you can give the juniper more light though, for longer hours, that would be much better too.

Thanks for the response Lucy! I should have clarified, the ficus are already inside. As for watering the juniper, I water when the soil has dried out, as I have read the roots like to "breathe" in between waterings. It is still in the basic soil that it was in when I purchased it this spring. I plan on repotting this coming spring based on the specs above (assuming it survives the winter).

As for giving the juniper more light, do you mean during the growing seasons? My yard is very shaded, so I've had trouble finding a good spot for it. I do move it around when I am able to in order to give it the most light I can. What about light during the fall and winter? If I put it in the garage it will get very little light, and the north side of the garage also gets litte light, though obviously more than the garage. I'm worried that I'm going to kill it this winter. Thanks for your help!

By the way, the juniper's soil seems to be decent, as it drains well and quickly. (The tree was purchased from joebonsai.com). The pot is a smaller black plastic bonsai pot.

The ficus are currently growing in regular houseplant soil. They seem to be doing fine, but the soil doesn't drain well. I had planned on repotting them in the spring as well. Do you think I should go ahead and switch the soil now? I would like to eventually try a forest arrangement since I have several of them.

Thanks!

Hi, you can repot the Ficus anytime, though spring is better than now if you're very fussy :-). You do know what you're doing with your juniper, so that's good, but apart from actual winter, it does need all the sun you can give it. There are people who say conifers don't need any light in winter, but I prefer to try and give them whatever I can, though the N. side of your garage would probably be ok provided it isn't under e.g. a drain spout (of icicles), and is in a big container of mulch with 1+" on the soil. Actually, I would just take the whole rootball out of the pot altogether if the pot's small, and plonk the tree right into the mulch, which avoids the real possibility of the pot's cracking and/or actually keeping the roots colder than they'd be in the mulch itself.

Thanks Lucy! I will try it like you suggest. I appreciate your help, and your patience, as I'm sure you've answered this question many times in the past. I think I will wait until the spring to repot the ficus as well, since they seem to be happy as they are right now.

The only other question I have (for now), is about the timing on switching the juniper to the larger pot. Should I wait until we are supposed to have our first frost, or when the low temperature is consistently lower than 40ish?

Well, I would say the latter (below 40), but if the pot's pretty small (

okay i got this new tree, well it's actualy a bush but its in a form of a tree and about in a week or so the leaves began to turn yellow nad fall of i forgot waht the name of the bush is so ill post a picture.

{{gwi:15040}}

here are more pictures

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okay i dont know why the leaves are turning yellow i think theres something wrong with it. i bough the bush about a week or so back and it was fine then but now its starting to turn yellow some of the leaves and start to fall off. The pot is small and i keep the soil usualy moist i think thats what the guy said i got to do, i have to ask him again so what should i do i posted some pictures on top please help

Kos, I think it's a Cotoneaster ("Koh Toh Nee Aster") and it's turning yellow because you're watering too often, especially now that it's about to go dormant. Water well when you do it, but definitely do it less often. Allow more of the soil (not the whole pot of course) to dry out between waterings. Go to www.bonsai4.me.com for more info... try doing some research on your own and stop buying trees before you know what to do with them. Good luck.

Lucy,

I just wanted you to know that my Raintree did very well, with all your advice. I really think the best advice was just what you said don't baby it. Sometimes that was hard for me to do but I did what you said, and it has done very well for a beginner like myself.

I am tying to judge when I should give it some what of shelter, by looking at the raintrees that are planted in the ground. We had a few frost so far, and the one in the ground have browning leaves and look burnt. I am guessing that I should treat the bonsai tree just like the ones in the ground and I let it receive the same frost and weather before I put the bonsai in the garage, again the garage is not heated but would be warmer than outside as the garage is attached to the house. Would it be a good idea to set the tree on the patio for a few days before I put the Bonsai in the garage for the winter. I think I am just going to set it down in a garbage with a lid and not do nothing else unless you think I should put some protection from the cold.

I thought in late Febuary I would sit it back out on the patio which is also unheated but gets good morning sun and see if it come to life in the spring.

If it does die, I have enjoyed it and I have learned a few things about this wonderful hobby.

Hi, you'd be better off all around if you sink the pot into one a fair amount larger with mulch between the pots, then when you take it out in the spring, but it's still on the cool side, it'll be protected (a can is only so insulating). Apparently your tree's been indoors all this time? Because now seems a bit late to be acclimating it to outdoors (whatever you do with it afterwards, like putting it in the garage). Maybe you could have it outside for a few hours through the middle of days for a week or so (your inground ones are brown because they've gone dormant) and then keeping it in the garage (no more house) overnight, but it's even getting late to do that, so (not knowing what the garage is like overnight) the garage might be the only way to go now. Plunging it straight from the house outdoors may work for 10 day(time)s, but I hope you don't forget it on a cold or windy Nov. night! Another tip - you need to be very careful in spring about de-wintering trees in pots... make sure they're protected from cold and frosts until after the last frost of the season (beg. of May usually) because if they sprout, and you get a frost, it basically will kill all the new growth along with the tree itself, so being out of the garage is good, but only if well mulched in a protected (also from heavy rain, strong wind and ice-anything. Do you see now why it's best to have planted trees in the ground if they're hardy in your climate? At least til you have a good set-up arranged (for many trees - we all get carried away) to deal with them?

No it has been outside all along, I even let it get the frost just like the ones that are planted in the ground outdoors. But it still is outdoor and I have done nothing to the tree so far at all.

Hi To Lovethosepalms.....I know it's a little late for my answer/advice,but I too have a Golden Rain Tree that is just the most "unusual little thing"....it has trained itself to a most gorgeous Bonsai Form all by itself,through neglect I'd say.I picked seeds from trees along a road,forgot them and they stayed in a hot car for months.....planted them months later,and @ a year later,these little trees all in one pot emerged in my garden bed.Two were "corkscrews at the base"....maybe following the light or tubling around of the pot they were in.Anyway, I took two that were the most contorted and brought inside to try to see if they were still alive as they were just sticks at this point(Jan/Feb) THEN....I noticed emerging leaf buds coming out of the trunks at different points. I now have the most awesome "corkscrew based Koelreuteria Paniculata (Golden Rain Trees)you have ever seen.I don't consider myself a Bonsai Genius,just maybe how they got treated causing their development,but you couldn't get Bonsai Babies like these for a Million Bucks (LOL)that were trained to do this.Other three are still out in original pot through heat/sleet/snow (in FL ???)one has a slightly corkscrewish bottom/trunk base to it.Last nite I topped the one I cherish most just above the trunk top where it was starting to curl so that I get it trained into a miniature tree form.I am having my son take pictures of it along the way....I am "Jessica Simpson" when it comes to computers. But, anywhooooooo-I am glad you chose the Golden Rain Tree, and I just thought I'd pass on my experiences with this littlest creature.I don't leave it outside constantly yet.....YES,I know that's a Bonsai NoNo,but this is sooooo exquisite that I'd hate to lose it.I probably will try to "duplicate" my Bonsai Tossing/Neglect/Tolling Technique and have some for others that might like to try their hands at "Carol's Golden Corkscrew Bonsai".These little ones seem to take a lot of abuse.....yeah, so that's why I am putting this one in a "lock box". Go figure.....will send photos soon,or if you are interested...email me and I'll see if the "son" can send over a photo so you can see til I figure out how to email to GardenWeb Site. GOOD LUCK & "NEGLECT in the Beginning" !!!