Not great material. Too coarse

It has a few negatives. Grows a long tap root it won't do well without. It has leaves so big, even if you could reduce by half, that's not enough unless you plan on a four foot bonsai. I've never seen a old one in the landscape. They tend to start going downhill after twenty years around here.

IMHO a good candidate for trash tree of the century. Bradford Pear might win by a leaf. I haven't figured out why both are so popular. The redbud is our state tree. To each his own:-).

randy

Cercis canadensis "Traveller" is a weeping form which is more compact than most. It won't qualify as a 'classic' bonsai, but can be enjoyed both while in bloom and in winter silhouette.

TerryW

Andrew,

There's nothing wrong with giving the Redbud a try. However, I'm not real sure how well they do in warmer climates - if they don't do well in Oklahoma, I doubt they would do very well in Texas. I've grown a few out to work on as bonsai but then gave them away as I have many other species I'd rather work on. However, they do grow out fast in the ground and I have a specimen tree in my landscape which had about a 1.5" trunk when I planted it 4 years ago and now has a 6" base. There are many specimens in landscapes around town that are well over 50-60 years old which are quite eye catching - gnarled and sometimes hollowed trunks - gives quite an effect in spring with the bright flower buds coming out on bare branches.

Hmmm, well....are there any other trees with the same flowering pattern as redbud that can be grown as bonsai here?

If your going to try it--and I wouldn't--I suggest starting with nusery stock that has lived its entire life in a pot. Redbuds are notoriously poor transplanters because of that infamous tap root. Speaking of large leaves, I have an iconoclastic vision of a thick gnarled sycamore trunk a couple of feet tall with no more than a dozen umbrella-sized leaves on it. Don't let the leaf size hold you back.

Are you too warm for quince?

"There's nothing wrong with giving the Redbud a try. However, I'm not real sure how well they do in warmer climates - if they don't do well in Oklahoma, I doubt they would do very well in Texas."

Whaderyamean? Redbud is the state tree of Oklahoma. They do just fine with the climate here. You can find many old ones in the wild woods here too. I've never dug one up but I doubt it would be any harder than other trees. Not the best bonsai suject but if you find a big one with a nice trunk I'd go for it.

Here's a link with state icons of Oklahoma.

Here is a link that might be useful: Oklahoma

If it's the state tree, it might be protected by law. You might want to check into that, as digging one up could result in a fine...

They do just fine here is correct. But they are short lived. Once they get to about a ten-inch diameter trunk, they start losing major limbs and then just die. I've lost four on my acreage over the past six years. My parents have a place on Arbuckle Lake. The have started losing the four nice ones in front of their house.

I've noticed in front of the Moore-Norman Tech school down the road that the two large ones they have at the entranceway are in a state of decline now. They were so nice looking a few years ago.

I tried them in containers for about five years. They have a very long taproot that gets much larger than the trunk below the soil line, just like a pecan tree. Even with gradual removal over a five-year period, I had major limb loss and winter dieback. This was just with seedlings.

BTW, I did post that it was our state tree. I think a poor choice. As I thumb through my Forest Trees of Oklahoma and look at hardwoods, Red Bud is one of the few with no special use after it is cut down.

If you think itÂs such a great tree, have at it. DonÂt let me stand in the way of future world class specimens :-).

randy

Stumpdigger,
I was just going by what information Randy posted regarding the lifespan of Redbud in OK. I just know that Redbud (pink flowered;not the white flowered) are generally a very cold hardy tree and that cold hardy trees don't always perform real well in warmer zones. From what I've read, sounds like they do well but their lifespans may be somewhat shortened in warmer/milder climates.

Randy,

The majority of the oaks I have are Live Oak, however, I have a few specimens of many species: English Oak, Valley Oak, Blue Oak, Coast Oak, Compton's Oak (cross between Q.Lyrata & Q.Virginiana - those are the types I'm working on for bonsai material. I also have several midwestern species (burr,swamp white,chinkapin) which I'm growing for the heck of it. I believe you have a nice population of Live Oak growing in some mountain ranges down around Lawton, OK.

I've been working on a collected old live oak from Texas for five years or so. It is terrific material and has been very hardy here in Va., even with our colder winters. It takes hard pruning easily and responds with dense growth in spring.

My tree is the inland species of live oak --quercus virginiana 'fusiformis'. It's the most ideal material for bonsai if you live in a colder zone--within Zones 6 and above.

I've noticed more Q. virginiana here locally over the past few years. I planted ten at a church a year ago last summer that are doing quite well. Lost a few in one gallon pots this past winter because I didnÂt go ahead and drop them into a raised bed.

How do you two winter over your live oaks? I will probably keep a few in a cool greenhouse and some buried in a bed when I get more in the spring.

Q. stellata or Post Oak grows east and west of our property. IÂve often wondered what they might do.

Randy,

Mark is right, Q.virginiana var fusiformis are the inland variety of live oak which grow in central texas up into very isolated areas of oklahoma. I have a few of those and they are the much hardier than the live oak that grows in the coastal areas of the south and eastern seaboard. However, I treat them all the same when over-wintering. I built a cold greenhouse (basically an unheated enclosed porch)which only gets heat from the unheated area of my basement, it works very well keeps them very cool but not anything below freezing. I've found with oaks and any tree, always make sure that you mulch them in well(especially the top-cover the top of the soil well). If you don't, you'd be suprised how quickly the pots lose moisture even in colder storage.

They aren't large trees by nature. 20 foot maybe when mature. They are a bit slow to thinken up in the trunk area too. I've never tried to bonsai one. If I found the right trunk though I might give it a try.

"If you think itÂs such a great tree, have at it. DonÂt let me stand in the way of future world class specimens :-)."

Great tree for for what Randy? Did I mention world class specimens? Or are you imagining things.:)

Tony

Tony, an imagination is something that usually gets me in trouble:-).

randy

I overwinter my oak in a cold frame at a local bonsai nursery, but only because it's really too big to overwinter in my back yard with all the other trees. It simply takes up too much space. The plant is about 2 1/2 feet tall with a nine inch diameter trunk and a branch spread of about three feet. The pot is about 24 inches by 18 inches by 6 inches.

At the nursery, the plant is situated in a large polytunnel on gravel from Thanksgiving to the end of March. Before I put it in storage, I leave it unprotected through at least three frosts, even a couple of hard freezes. It drops a few leaves, but doesn't really seem to mind.

It's not mulched in the polytunnel. It has been kept like that for years and freezes regularly in that location. The polytunnel keeps the temps from dropping into the danger zone --below 20 degrees. This is a relatively cold-hardy variety--it's not a larch ;-)though--and easily equals alot of native plants here in cold hardiness, I think.

I think the fusiformis variety is much overlooked for bonsai and landscape uses.

Mark,
Sounds like you have a very nice Live Oak specimen. I'd love to see it. Are you trying to style it as a live oak in the wild? (spreading habit) Most of my trees are 1-5 gallon sizes, still very much pre-bonsai material. Are you familiar with the Sand Live Oak species(q.geminata)? From a glance,it's very similar to live oak but after growing the two species for several years the s. live oak does have characteristics which are quite different from live oak. I think both of these species have great potential, it amazes me that more artists in the south have not payed more attention to these species.

Scott,

I don't have any pics of it that I can post, unfortunately. (all this may change shortly). I bought the tree from Vito Megna down in Texas. He has since stopped selling trees because of health problems. That was a huge loss for bonsaiists and native trees. I got a couple of spectacular trees from him over the years. The other is a big cedar elm.

The oak was collected near Salado, Tex. in 1992, growing twisting and turning among assorted scrub on a cattle ranch. I got it from Vito in '98 or so.

It's has a very unorthodox trunk, produced from growing in that scrubby tangle. It twists in a spiral, much like a goat's horn, making two "revolutions" in two feet, tapering from nine inches to one in that space. It's not straight, but has a slight zigzag going up as it spirals.

That complex image is a hard thing to hang branches on. Currently, the branches come off of the trunk at intervals where the trunk starts to "zig." The tree does have a somewhat domed canopy with a spreading crown and the tree's overall silhoutte is ovalish, so it appears as a modified spreading oak image.

I've not seen sand live oak, but I'd bet it would work. I'm planning on collecting some larger trunked willow oaks (which are very common here) this spring. I've also got a smallish red oak that has a pretty nice nebari about 20 yards from my house's back door. The leaves are big, but hey...that nebari...

Mark,
The trunk you described sounds exactly as it should be for a live oak growining in the harsh central texas environment. Good luck with it. I hope you can post a picture of it some day. I remember Vito's website. He had some fabulous texas native material - I remember his fondness of the texas ash juniper. I miss browsing his website and admiring his collected trees. I may venture to the south next spring to search for larger specimen live oak to work on. Collecting wild Willow Oak doesn't sound all too bad either - should give you something to look very forward to next spring...

Scott,

While you're searching for live oak, don't overlook any cedar elm you may come across. They are superior bonsai material to any Japanese species of elm.

I'll have to keep an eye out for cedar elm, I remember Vito saying how tough and durable they are, not to mention the great bonsai qualities the tree has...

If you guys are down around South Texas you might want to look for a Texas Ebony. It's a challenging alternative to Brazillian Raintree--tiny leaves, open and articulated structure, and oh baby those thorns. A long, hard frost will kill it though.

East Texas trees, like cedar elm, are pretty durable in colder climates provided they get their roots protected.

A case in point. I have a couple of cedar elms. One was excavated from my parents place in East Texas just west of Shreveport, La. I dug the four inch diameter, 25-foot tree out in November (I was visiting for Thanksgiving and thought 'what the heck, there's a pretty nice tree, I won't be around in the spring. It's now or never') by sawing all the roots off three inches out from the trunk. I trunk chopped it to 24 inches (learned that the four inch diameter trunk was 60 years old, go figure). Washed of all remaining soil. Plunked it in a bucket of water for two days. The day I was to fly back to Va. I wrapped it in plastic, put it in a box and shipped it via UPS. The tree's trip took three days via the mail. Upon it's arrival back east, it was snowing. I planted the tree in a nursery container, mulched into a protected place in the backyard and crossed my fingers. We had lows in the single digits constantly in the months afterward. In the spring, I hoped and prayed for new growth. I waited and waited and...waited, into the beginning of June. By then, I had given up hope. As I picked the tree up to throw it in the trash, I saw a fleck of green on the trunk. It was a new shoot.

That was six years or so ago. The tree has been growing strong ever since. It's cast iron, can't kill it.

Hey folks,
Legumes in general do not take well to being transplanted let alone being in a pot. Plant it in the yard and enjoy.

Vernon

Depends on the legume. Wisteria take very well to pot culture and bonsai.

I think redbud leaves are just too big. In the end there's a good reason why some trees are commonly used for bonsai while others are rejected.

You might want to consider a Mexican Redbud. They are a slightly smaller tree than the Texas redbud and the Eastern Redbud with slightly smaller leaves as well. Also try getting a young specimen and growing it out in a Whitaker's "Rootmaker" pot for a couple of years this will take care of the taproot problem by air-pruning the roots as it grows.

Vernon

Legumes tend to do ok for me. Texas ebony and Brazilian Rain tree are great container plants.

Adam

Dr Carl Whitcomb of Stillwater Oklahoma designed and markets the Rootmaker. They are an exceptional pot. I use a lot of them.

randy

Thanks Folks,
I stand corrected. Exceptions, Exceptions, Exceptions. Mother nature is wonderful. If you generalize, you are wrong, if you get specific there is always a BUT. I love it.

Vernon

I got a redbud at a surplus/salvage business here a few weeks ago for $4.00. It may never be a traditional bonsai.The trunk had been snapped off and was back budding. I have read that enthusiasts who chose these trees do so for their amazing spring flowers. The rest of the year they are worked on privately and not shown.

Here is a link that might be useful: click for pictures

Sorry about the dead link. here it is.
It's my progression of a redbud.

http://lance-greaterthanme.blogspot.com/2011/08/eastern-redbud.html