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pyralis42

Need Help with Fertilizers....

18 years ago

Hello,

I went on a little shopping trip today to pick up some materials to make my own soil, but had a very hard time finding certain kinds of fertilizers. A good 90% of the ferts were very high in P.

I did get the Osmocote Plus, because it has everything in it, with an okay ratio, 15-9-12, not quite 3:1:2, but pretty close. That was the best I could find tho. Even searching online has me going through tons of pages and it seems that there are more organic ferts.

I could really use some suggestions of what to look for. I am going to just purchase off the web so I should be able to find anything. I looking for a few different kinds of ferts, but I don't want anything organic.

The osmocote plus will work great for six months it says. I want to find something similar in a soluble form, not CRF. Also want to find a soluble form of just a NPK in a 3:1:2 ratio. I also need both a granular (to mix into soil) and soluble (to water directly) form of micronutrients.

I was going to try and get STEM, which Al was talking about, but after reading the usage instructions, I don't think it would be possible for me. For constant feeding it's 0.1 oz. of STEM per 100 GALLONS of water!!!

The reason why I want so many different variations is because I am going to be making at least two soil mixes, maybe three, and each will need different nutrient additives. I wish I could crush some of my multi vitamins, that would be easy ;)

Now for some questions ^^

The place I go for garden supplies carries most of the Epsoma line. Are these products only used in soil mixtures and not as an instant use?

Until I find some better fert then the 20-20-20 I have, can I use Jacks Classic 30-10-10? If I do should I use something to add more K, and if so what can I use that is soluble?

I still need to pick up some lime and gypsum, but while I was at the store I was looking for epsom salt. The only kind they had was Espoma Epsom Plus, which is 11% Mg, 22% S and 22% K20. Is this okay to use since it has the high % of K? If not, what should I get to add the Mg when I use gypsum? Also, does all Epsom salt have sulfur?

If I use lime, then I assume I will need to add sulfur? If so, do I have to be concerned about the pH becoming too acidic, or will the lime just counteract it?

Lastly, I have a few questions about the mixing instructions for some of these ferts.

The Osmocote Plus says to add 3 tbl. per 4 sq. ft. WHAT????

I am going to be making my mixed more by volume than area. I don't now if the regular Osmocote is the same, but, the directions on the Outdoor & Indoor food is 1 tsp. for 8" pot, 1/2 tbl. for 10" pot, etc. Does anyone know if I can use the easier instructions for the Osmocote Plus?

I noticed that products that are mixed into the soil, like Espoma, are normally by area. Again, I'm going to be making soil by volume and don't know how to convert from one to another, if it's even possible. What can I do?

I think that's all, I hope so because it has taken me about two hours to think all this through.

Thanks in advance,

Ross ^^

Comments (4)

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    For the 3:1:2 ratio, you can find fertilizers by many manufacturers, but MG 24-8-16 granular soluble and MG 12-4-8 are readily available. The liquid product lists Fe, Mn, and Zn among the minors included in the blend, but the granular lists some additional, though I forget exactly which they are - most likely they would be B, Cu, and Mo, but ck it out if it's important to you.

    I use stem at the rate of a skinny 1/4 tsp per 2 gallons of water whenever I fertilize, and I have really never noticed what I considered symptoms of a micronutrient deficiency OR toxicity, so I'm happy with that regimen. Alternately, you could incorporate Micromax into the soil when you make it, or use one of the other micronutrient supplements, like what Earthjuice has available.

    I know you're determined to get this all figured out, so if you have a particular problem trying to get the exact nutrients you want to your plants, I'll try to help as best I can.

    I think you could do very well, using the 30-10-10, if you included a product called Pro-TeKt (0-0-3) when you fertilize. I really like it because in addition to the K, it contains silicon to help strengthen plant cells (you can actually tell), which helps ward off insects with piercing/sucking mouth parts and helps prevent fungal infections from taking hold. Prevention is ALL in controlling fungus & rusts. Perhaps the greatest benefit from using this product comes from the increase in the heat and drought tolerance of my containerized plants after I started using this product (if that is of importance to you).

    Just use the regular, inexpensive Epsom salts (MgSO4) - the S being sulfur, to answer the related question in your post.

    You generally don't need to add S to container soils, though it can be only marginally available in the gritty mix I often recommend. When I'm growing plants that I know appreciate a little lower pH, I often include some elemental (garden) S, like Espoma sells or you can buy inexpensively in larger bags for use on lawns). Any micronutrient supplement you use, sometimes the fertilizer, or elemental S can all provide the small amount your plants need. In elemental form, it breaks down soo slowly that it has little or no effect on soil pH.

    A quart of Osmocote weighs about 3 lbs. There is generally a pretty wide margin of application rates in CRF's, and most are applied at about 4-6 lbs per cu yd of soil (let's say 5 lbs/cu yd). Since there are 27 cu ft in a yard, you would add about 1-2/3 quarts to a cu yd, or 1/16 of a quart (16 tbsp - 1 cup) to a cu ft. of soil. If you're making soil by the gallon, then divide 16 tbsp by 7-1/2 for a rate of about 2 tbsp per gallon of soil for a 5 lb/cu yd rate.

    Obviously, many of the products you asked about are meant primarily for garden use, so they list recommended application rates by surface area. If you want to know the rates by volume, you'll need to ask someone at the source of supply, someone who already knows, or seek it out from what you consider to be a trusted net source.

    Al

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thanks Al!

    Especially for working out how much Osmocote to use. I can use that now to make the houseplant soil. Now I just have to get the other items.

    Speaking of which, I sent you a message about a possible supplier to get the STEM and Micromax.

    You are right that I am determined. I will continue to learn this even if I end up with no hair by then end of it all ;)

    Ross

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Ross:
    I just got off the phone with the scott's folks and they will give no dosage for containers at this time for the osmocote plus. I am using at 1 tablespoon per 10 inch pot for outdoor containers. I would consider this too much for indoor houseplants as the dosage is half that based on the osmocote 19-6-12 label for the same 10 inch pot indoor container(1/2 tablespoon). Just strictly from the labeling of the 19-6-12 it says 3 tablespoons for a 4 square foot in-ground area, which is exactly what is labeled for the osmocote plus 15-9-12. I am using this to guide me on using this product since scotts has not and for now will not be putting any dosage suggestions for the the osmocote plus 15-9-12 for containers. I am doing this as an experiement and make no suggestions from previous use of this product for this purpose. I am always willing to try new ways to accomplish my growing goals and if I can make it easier I will do just that. I would suggest that you only try a small part of a project with this brand new product this year (omocote plus 15-9-12 4.5 lb orange label and cap) and then only if you are an experimentor like me and willing to try as yet unproven new product in a different way than it is labeled for. I (think) that scott's is trying to offer this product with a limited label to see how it goes over in the garden world before they go through all the legal tests that will allow it to post dosage suggestions on their label for containers. This is only conjecture on my part and after talking with the scotts folks this morning I "think" that it will go to the next level and become available for everday gardeners for this use but obviously there are legal and potentially formulation issues that may need to be addressed before this will happen. For now try some and test it but only if you accept that there is a risk involved with use of osmocote plus in containers. What these risks might be I could not get a direct answer from the scott's supervisor that I spoke to. The closest I got was possible plant toxicities and pets and children concerns. She said the pro formula and this product have different inert ingredients (by law they are not required to disclose what these are)so they don't and no one else ever does either. She went on to tell me how the pros use this product and how consumers might use this product are different so the results may not be the same. I can understand their reluctance to not disclose more than this because legally they are bound to only disclose what is written and legally accepted by law what is on the label. I did try to get more but failed.

    I think that the Foliage-Pro 9-3-6 that Al has just started to talk about this past weekend might be a safer bet until we all find out a little more what is going on with the label and growing experiences (and possible safety issues) with the osmocote plus 15-9-12 product.

    I will share how my experiments go with this new product in my in-ground and in container projects this season but will need to know more before I go out on a limb and suggest it for container use beyond testing at your own risk for the time being.

    If after reading this you feel that you should not use the osmocote plus in the manner that you wanted to use it (containers) return it for a refund to the place of purchase or return the container to scotts per the guarantee on the back of the osmocote plus container. I am deeply sorry if I jumped the gun and have created any confusion about this product and its labeled usage.
    Good Luck and Happy Growing David

  • 18 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Thanks for info David. I'm probably still going to give it a try. I am planning on making several different mixes with various ferts in them. I am still deciding what kind of plant I want to use to test.

    Ross