There is a short answer and a long answer to your question.

The short answer is if you are planting a BULB garden, that is, a dedicated space for the show of spring flowered bulbs, then place them towards the front of the planting bed in an area where their ripening foliage after bloom will not bother you. Or plant them in containers you can sink into the ground and then move after bloom to ripen away in some less visible location. With proper selection, you can have a show of color from these bulbs that will last for several months, beginning with the earlier flowering crocus and ending up with late season tulips.

The long answer pertains to a successful development of a cottage garden design. This is not the easiest look to pull off well without some serious pre-planning and it is difficult to do for a front entry garden as it tends to be quite seasonal in appearance as well as having an ability to look a bit wild and unkempt from time to time. And it is not a low maintenance gardening situation - grooming, deadheading, dividing and culling of unwanted seedlings is time consuming but needs to be done regularly to keep a cottage style garden under control.

I think what you may prefer is a mixed border planting - a combination of small trees and shrubs, both evergreen and deciduous, together with perennials and bulbs and ground covers. What you need is to develop some structure and "bones" from the trees and shrubs that will give some year round interest to the planting bed and that can be accented with more seasonal plantings of bulbs, perennials and annuals. With thoughtful placement, bulbs can be easily incorporated into the plan so that their ripening foliage is obscured by the developing foliage of other plants. And many bulbs can easily grow through more shallow rooted perennials and groundcovers. And you can always over-plant bulbs with annuals as long as you don't disturb them during their necessary period of dormancy. Another thing to keep in mind is that most spring flowering bulbs prefer to keep relatively dry during the summer months, so combining them alongside other plants that require frequent summer irrigation is not ideal.

This sounds a bit more complicated than it really is. Many folks are able to pull this off well just by happenstance, but if you are developing a new landscape, I'd suggest you take some time to plan this out BEFORE you do a lot more planting. Trial and error can be frustrating and expensive. Get your spouse with the designer's touch involved and visit the library or bookstore for some helpful texts. One that I would put high on the list is "The Well-Designed Mixed Border" by Traci DiSabato-Aust. This is an extremely helpful book outlining the steps in creating a 4-season mixed border with lots of photos and plant combinations and ideas, as well as maintenance and cultural tips.

Go ahead and plant your bulbs now where you think they will provide you the best show for the coming spring - they can always be moved later. And take some time over the winter months to plan out your front foundation planting beds as well as the rest of your garden so that it will be colorful and appealing year round with maintenance requirements you can live with. Remember that a garden doesn't happen overnight - it is a long, evolving process that should provide increasing satisfaction as the years go by.

Yes, after they're done, the bulbs will look pretty ratty, and it's important to leave the foliage on until it's fully ripe (i.e. yellow/brown and really ratty-looking) if you want blossoms again next year ... but there is a solution.

As long as you're not planting the kind of bulbs that must be pulled up every year, they mix wonderfully with perennials and shrubs.

Picture bright or pale yellow daffs against the backdrop of a dark green yew, for example. Just don't plant those bulbs too close to the shrub, however, or eventually they'll be under it.

Many perennials come up as the bulb foliage is ripenening and will camoflage it. Daylily and bleeding heart are great for this, but there are lots of other possibilites. Candytuft is low-growing and evergreen here; bulbs initially planted at the perimeter are now thriving and blooming in the amid the mass of stems, foliage and late-spring flowers.

I've not tried it, but have read that bulbs planted near roses are a good combination, providing color before the roses hit their stride, and the rose later hiding the old bulb foliage.

I just redid my front shrub border this summer/fall (an ongoing project) with perennials & bulbs in front, and by the mailbox added the following:

various bulbs - winter & early spring to early summer blooms
mixed daylilies - blooming summer into early fall
montauk daisies - Oct-Nov bloom
The backdrop for these consists of rose, yew and forsythia.

In my experience, most bulbs (including rhizomes like iris) work extremely well with perennials and shrubs; you'd just want to be careful with ones that might have to be pulled up each year for overwintering or ones that may decline quickly ... they say tulips are only good for a year or two, but I leave mine and they're good for several years.

(I mentioned yew, but of course there's a huge variety of needled and broadleaf evergreens out there - azaleas, rhodies, andromeda are well-represented in my mix and add more spring color - the andromeda with clusters of very early tiny white flowers and later the new growth of leaves starts out red).

Sounds like you're starting with a blank canvas - that has its advantages ... have fun & good luck! Down the road, maybe you'll can show us some pictures?

I usually make beds the fall before I do serious planting, laying out the bedlines, removing sod if necessary, and prepping the soil. I may or may not edge it depending on how sure I am about the exact layout. I then underplant the area with bulbs. The trick is to mark the locations of major plants. I usually bury plastic nursery pots upside down to indicate the probable location of trees or small shrubs. If necessary I add outside stakes to indicate their spread. The areas that are left can then be planted with bulbs. If I change my mind in the spring, I can always move some of the bulbs. I find this procedure helps clarify my thoughts, is not expensive in time or money, and gives be the benefit of a very pretty spring flowering. It also gives a quite natural look to the bulbs since they twist around the planting bed instead being in clumps or rows. I have snow cover so the plastic pots do not really show, but they are most helpful in the spring when I get ready to plant.

Problem is, spring bulbs like daffs, crocuses, tulips, hyacynths will only give color for 1 month and after that they are garbage because they wont bloom again in that zone, daffs will survive but will only produce foliage because they need to be chilled for 6-8 weeks or they won´t bloom. "Summer" bulbs like gladiolas, acidanthera, irises, callas, cannas will return every year without special care and no need to lift them unless you want to divide them, which usually is every three or four years.

Thanks for ALL the advice. I was under the impression that dafodils and crocuses would come back year after year in my Zone which is Zone 8 South Carolina.

If that is not the case I think I'll use less bulbs and not worry so much about them if they are just throw away spring color.

I might just plant them where I think they look good and replant some every year since I can plant them pretty easy with my bulb auger.

In the mean time I'll concentrate on putting some Bones down to start my landscape.

I know it will take years and hopefully it's never completely done so I'm in no real hurry

As long as you have a normal zone 8 winter, most spring flowering bulbs will return each season without special pre-chilling. raul in mexico, you may be interested to know that the Skagit Valley, zone 8 Washington State, is one of the largest spring bulb growing regions in the world, outside of the Netherlands.

I garden a long way away from Z8, South Carolina, but I agree with gardengal48 that many if not most daffodils will return in your climate. Look for daffs in the Tazetta and Jonquilla groups, in particular. One Tazetta, 'Avalanche,' has quite a reputation for surviving around old/antique/abandoned home sites in the South East US. You might also be able to grow paper whites (which are members of the Tazetta group) outside as perennials, lucky you. I believe paper whites bloom in the fall (??) where they are hardy, but I've only ever forced them over winter, here in Z6 Massachusetts.

You might take a look at the book _Front Yard Gardens: Growing More than Grass_ by Liz Primeau. It's full of wonderful ideas for cottage and other front yard gardens. And any book by Pamela Harper might be helpful for you, she gardens in a similar climate to yours and often seems to like a fairly cottage-y style. (She was influenced by a variety of English garden styles during her time gardening in the UK.) Did Scott Ogden write a book called (something like) 'Bulbs for Southern Gardens,' or am I imagining that?

Good luck -
Amanda

I believe that Raul's different advice is because of his very different climate - Zone 10. I'll concur that in Zone 8 your bulbs should rebloom for you for years to come; just give them a good start when you plant them.

Getting "the bones" in first is certainly desireable, but I'd say go ahead and plant any bulbs you'd like now, especially if they're unlikely to interfere with spring planting. The worst that can happen is you'll have to move them. I have several clumps that have been moved (usually, but not always, while dormant) and are none the worse for it, sometimes better!

Remember the origins of the cottage garden style and, above all, enjoy the process!

Gardengal, you´re making the mistake of assuming that zones are equal everywhere, which is anything but true, the fact that the USGS zonifies areas doesn´t necessarily mean that zone 8 in Washinton State is the same as zone 8 in South Carolina. Let me give you an example, if you take a look a zonification map you will see that where I live ( León, Gto. Mex ) appears as zone 10, is this true ? to a certain point it is true......but it depends, it depends on which part of the county you are. Snow ? snow in León is such a strange ocurrence that if you don´t live to a quite ripe age you will see snow falling, it snowed 1/16th of an inch 8 years ago, the last time such event happened around here was 85 years before and still every year we can enjoy snow for a couple of months in the middle of the winter without having to leave the county. I like to fish, largemouth bass is THE sport fish around here, we also can fish for bluegills, carp, catfish, crappies and TILAPIA which is an african panfish that can´t survive cold water but on the other hand we can also fish for trout and trout and tilapia are completely incompatible, the waters where tilapia thrives are just too warm for trout to survive and the opposite is true, I didn´t say that we could fish tilapia and trout in the same lake, I said that we can either fish tilapia or trout.......without having to leave the county. Now you figure out why and according to the USGS I´m deep but very deep in zone 10.

By the way, crocus foliage is "grassy" and may not be as obnoxious after blooming. That might be a good place to get started! Also, there are smaller daffodils (Hawera, for example) with similar grassy foliage.

If we're getting into a spitting contest on whether daffodils will grow in South Carolina, I believe I'm probably the one gardener so far who has anecdotal information in similar conditions to Joe. There's not enough information on his site to know if he's in the piedmont or near the coast, but judging from the list of seeds he's collected, including Camellias, I expect we're pretty close in climate in adjoining states. Much of the information that I use comes from the Clemson, SC University Extension website.

Daffodils grow and return very well for me, down near the Florida/Alabama/Georgia line. Not all daffodils; the better choices are jonquillas, triandrus, cyclamineus and miniatures. Forget the trumpets. Choose carefully from the large cups and tazettas. Most reliable vendors will have notes in the descriptions telling you what will grow to zone 9. Choose from those for good results.

IMHO, the best cottage garden looks are handfuls of bulbs planted under and near shrubs as indicated in a post above. Planting in a groundcover like vinca minor works for me if you desire groundcover. I tolerate a certain amount of ratty foliage while they make next year's blossoms.

My own personal preference is for dedicated beds surrounded by grassy paths in which, once the foliage yellows and dies down, everything goes back to rough lawn. It does take lots of room for dedicated beds. My other preference is for double/tripe rows of bulbs along the front of beds or borders that can be left briefly until the foliage ripens and then mowed.

I hate digging into mixed beds and slicing up bulbs, so I try to separate the beds with bulbs and use only long term perennials that will not require digging, or shallow rooted annuals that will not disturb the bulbs. Planting a clump of bulbs near a landmark like a large stone will remind you of where NOT to dig, too. You can overplant bulb beds with things like corn poppies, silene, sweet william and larkspur and those will hide ripening foliage and give a cottage look.

I also find many hyacinths persist well. I choose not to grow crocus. There are some lists of daffodils that I like in my web site.

Summer bulbs are good. Lilies are great to follow the spring show. Have fun, start small and grow.

Nell

I didn't want to start any trouble here when I asked the question.

Yes I am close to the coast here is a link of weather data for my area.

http://www.weatherbase.com/weather/weather.php3?refer=&s=019747

Average the data for Dothan, Alabama, Tallahasse, Florida and Albany or Valdosta, Georgia and you get my climate. You have a little more snow than we do here, LOL.

Do you ever see daffodils and the like blooming in your town in the Spring? Another way to check is to call the county agent and ask questions of the Master Gardeners. I do believe you'll find some bulbs that will work for you. I know that people in Charleston plant narcissus with great results. They plant Hawera daffodils at Goodwood plantation in Tallahassee.

Feel free to email for further details about what works for me.

Nell

Check out Barbara Sullivan's Garden Perennials for the Coastal South. She has an entire chapter on Bulbs that perform well in the South, including daffodils. She tells which ones perform well and which ones need excellent drainage, which I don't plant in the ground since we get tons of rain all summer. It is my favorite book by far. Also, check out Southern Living Gardener's guide. Many bulbs will return for you, you just need to choose them carefully. I have had good success with the spanish, not english, bluebells, and the leucojum snowflake bulbs. I plant the miniature daffodils and the rush like daffodils because the foliage is less noticable. I tuck mine behind liriope and evergreen daylilies. Under deciduous trees is a good location for them. You can also grow daffodils in big pots and plant pansies on top. Many benefit from the extra chill. One final note - check with gardeners in your area about the planting depth. In the far south, the bulbs have to be planted at about half the depth that they need to be planted up north or they will rot.

You got a lot of good advices here, some you might use and some don't, but the main one, 'establish the bones and plant everything else around them' should be always kept in your mind since you are working on a blank canvas.

While you are in a 'planning stage', I'd like to recommend to make a provision for the excellent groundcover over the spring blooming bulbs, Ceratostigma plumbaginoides.
Its culture and atributes are completely compatible with spring bulbs and will provide you with interest long after bulbs are gone. Blooms in July-August and fall foliage is to die for.
IMO, if it would be evergreen, nobody would ever plant vinca minor or english ivy.

I certainly didn't intend to start any arguments either, but since the primary factor governing how well spring flowering bulbs will return is a chill period determined by soil temps, zonal determination seems as good a starting point as any, certainly more helpful than a blanket statement that they won't return.

The USDA zone maps we follow are based on average minumum winter temperatures, nothing more. Of course my zone 8 is significantly different during the growing season than say the OP's in South Carolina or a zone 8 in Texas. But the average minimum winter temperature should be very similar - that's how the zones are determined. If it is cold enough in my zone 8 during winter to grow spring flowering bulbs without artificial chilling, then it stands to reason other zone 8's should experience very similar winter conditions and also not need to pre-chill bulbs.

George, I like your assessment of the leadwort :-) Indeed, if it was evergreen, I could eliminate a good many of the other, more problematical groundcovers I sell. A very garden-worthy plant.

Soil quality is an important factor ... Joe, if you're near the coast you may be lucky enough to have a sandy soil like we have here. Ours was very poor to start with (sand and clay devoid of any organic matter to speak of); even after adding lots of organic matter it still drains very well. Perhaps this is a factor that has helped my bulbs co-exist so well with the shrubs and perennials.

Hello AGAIN, Agardenstate of Mind, YES I have very sandy soil, sand and clay like you mentioned. I have almost no organic matter in the soil but I have been starting to mulch and add leaves and compost.

Anyway I was writing again to post some Pictures of my blank Slate yard incase anyone had any ideas for me.. It's bare and ugly but I am working on it..



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http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c284/joefalco/roses.jpg

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What a wonderful 'blank slate' for whatever you choose to plant!

Lisa mentioned Barbara Sullivan's book. The University of North Carolina was very gracious to include an excerpt on their web site. She's included many of my favorites and I hope some of yours. Her list of desirable daffodils for the Southern Garden is especially interesting.

Nell

It isn't ugly - it's just not finished yet! It's really cute - has so much potential - nice front porch that can be a great focal point, as your front entry should be.

The compost should help the soil a lot; I was advised to also add gypsum, which is supposed to cause the fine clay particles to clump together.

It is hard to advise on specific ideas, since that is so much a matter of taste and many other variables. I'd maybe get some of those "bones" in - something to soften the edges of the house - and those bulbs for color ... but I'd take this winter to read and look at lots of books, magazines, other homes in the area. Are there any botanical gardens nearby you can visit? At first so much information might be confusing, but eventually, as you develop and refine your vision for your site, most extraneous stuff will drop away, and it will all begin to come together. You'll want to think of how you plan to view and use that space ... just to look pretty (from inside as well as outside) or will you be spending time out there? Do you want to incorporate a lawn seating area? Cutting garden? Potager? Rose garden? (You certainly seem to have plenty of sun!) How about attracting & supporting birds/butterflies/beneficial insects? Are there deer (or other animals) nearby that would nibble your plants? What about things like birdbaths, sundials, arbors, and such?

There are plenty of landscape design software programs; if you're so inclined, you could play around with that this winter, too.

And, whatever you do, it isn't cast in stone! With few exceptions, plants can be moved without harm, as long as you time it right and treat them well. Some of the things we do have to be done right the first time ... I don't consider gardening in that category (maybe with the exception of good soil preparation); perhaps that's why it's so relaxing and enjoyable. I'd be a sorry woman, indeed, if my gardens were "complete" and "perfect" and there wasn't a single plant left I'd like to add.

"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end."

Ursula K. Le Guin

Here's to a long, enjoyable and smooth journey ... with just enough bumps to keep it interesting.

Diane

I have a very lackadaisical approach to garden design: if you put in enough plants, plants with varying seasons of interest, you won't even notice the fading bulb foliage. That's what I do--even if it DOES mean that I now use my small trowel to plant even larger shrubs so that I don't chop through something else as I dig.

Daffodils can grow in Zones 8 and 9 as long as you choose the varieties suited to growing in the South. St. Keverne is one of those varieties, and there are lots of others. Tulips can be more problematic, although the species tulips have several warm-weather varieties which will do well for you. The "tenderer" Crocuses should do for you as long as they get good drainage.

I agree with some of the other posters that you should look around and see what grows well in your area. My favorite places to look are botanical gardens and old, established areas of town with slightly neglected gardens. If it's growing in spite of neglect, it will probably thrive with a tiny bit of care.

Joe, I just read this quote over in the Cottage Garden forum, and had to pass along to you:

"Good planting design does not follow a formula. At best, it allows you to experiment with nature and through nature to make an original statement. As in all of the arts, the best garden designers take risks. Only by taking risks can you come up with something exciting and original." James Van Sweden

It was originally posted on Dec. 4 by gurley157FS in her new thread entitled "Just found this quote". You might enjoy some of the follow-ups.