Hmmm

I love shady places, and don't like sitting in the sun very much. My DH is the opposite, or says he is--but somehow on those really hot days he is the one hogging the prime spot under the umbrella or the tree.

If you have the space for it, I think having a patio large enough for both shady and sunny areas sounds great.

I think a cold shady place is different from a place that is just shady. Maybe that's what Hayward meant.

Gordon Hayward is referring to a pattern know as 'South facing outdoors' from Christopher Alexanders theory about a pattern language. Alexander does qualify this by saying "In desert climates, the pattern is less important; people will want to stay in outdoor spaces that have a balance of sun and shade." He does say however that he believes that the band of shade a north facing house makes will create a barrier between the house and what is beyond.

I guess the other question is, would we be happier in partial shade created either by a tree or some sort of pergola, rather than the complete shade from a house? Then it wouldn't have the dramatic line. Dh is dreaming of a grape arbor, which could serve this purpose.

Since this is a relatively long term project, try setting some chairs in the proposed space this summer. Do you use them? Are you comfortable sitting there? If not why not? Is it something fixable, like it does need some shade?

We have a screened in porch on the west side of the house. I consider it practically unusable, since in this climate it is cold in the morning, and hot in the afternoon. The front stoop isn't a bad place to sit, so long as the traffic isn't annoying. The house faces north, and the stoop is always shaded.

BTW, my DH is a runner, and firmly of the opinion that there is no bad weather, just bad clothing.

MG - Good idea - we'll probably end up doing something like that, anyhow. I'm also thinking about doing an entry courtyard type of thing on the south side, which would be shaded by the huge Norway maple already there.

The sad things is, we so rarely have time to actually sit outside and relax...

Shady Patios. Isn't that the name of the company that put in the cobblestones?

Lol.

Anyhow, I started reading my Shady Retreats book. It's meant to be an idea-sparking book, with some general ideas, and 20 different examples that could be used in various situations, definitely aimed at the layman. For what it is, I'd say it is pretty well done, and is giving me some ideas. I do find it interesting that the author (Barbara Ellis) hasn't shown any examples (so far - I'm about half-way through) where the building creates all of the shade. I'm not sure if why - if she thinks it is less interesting, or if she thinks it isn't as effective for having shade as well as privacy.

I also like that she talks a lot about phasing things in, since that is how we will be doing it!

I read A Pattern Language in the 1980s before designing my first house. There is now an abbreviated top 10 patterns in Patterns of Home if you want to read less and see photos! :-)

My backyard faces north and we have a screened porch with a ceiling fan. We eat almost every breakfast and lunch out there in the summer when it's too hot on the south and east sides. It's a wonderful cool napping spot after working in the garden on summer days.

I have two patios on the east side. We spend our fall and spring mornings and fall, spring and summer evenings (away from the western sun). In the winter, the flagstone warms up enough on sunny mornings to make it nice to walk around to see the winter blooming plants in the fragrance garden.

I have a front porch on the south side. Since we're passive solar, it's wonderfully warm and toasty when it's 30 degrees a few feet out into the garden. During the summer, when the sun is straight overhead, it is totally shaded and has a ceiling fan, making it usable in all seasons.

We spend as much time as possible in all of our outdoor rooms. On rainy days, both the screened porch and front porch have sufficient eaves to keep us dry and that's a wonderful experience, too.

I have NOTHING on the west side except driveway and utilities.

Like grasses, and like other posters above, my family has cool season and warm season behaviours. In the cool season, we are sun-seekers, and in the warm season, we seek shade. So we have two patios, one shady and one sunny. Our yard is south-facing, so the sunny one is against the house, and the shady one is further out in the shade of the garage and big willows. We have one of those garden swings that we move from one patio to the other depending on the season.

We do have a north-facing front yard, with porch, where we often sat outside in summer before we built anything nice in the back. The porch is almost always shady (gets a few rays in the morning and at dinner time) although the front yard gets quite a bit of sun in summer when the house shadow shrinks due to the sun being higher. If this were our backyard, it would be a piece of cake to put a patio in the sunny part of the yard for spring and fall enjoyment. Just the reverse of the back yard.

The porch isn't screened in, but it is covered. I have a few issues with this space that might also have to do with prevailing winds and rain and so might be resolved by screening... mainly that it doesn't get cleaned by weather as an open patio would. This may be thanks to the neighbour's large conifer that is very close to it, but even the more open end seems to nurture large spiders and wind-delivered debris. This is not quite as pleasant to deal with as, say, leaves that would fall on an open patio.

The quality of the shade is an interesting question, best locally observed. Here, we are close to the ocean and there is usually just a bit of air movement. So while the shade of the house is denser and thus cooler than the dappled shade of the willows, there is more air movement away from the house and so one is equally cool in both.

In summary, I'd say a shady place to sit in summer is a must-have, and that the shade of a house is a fine type of shade to have. (I bet it doesn't get included in books because it's hard to photograph :-)) Whether you cover/screen the space or not is a separate question that depends on such variables as local insect populations and prevailing winds.

This is an interesting thread. At least the book "Your House, Your Garden" got you thinking about the topic before you dropped in a new patio.

One thing I will point out is that if you have not actually monitored the shade pattern of your house, you should. For example, the peak side of your house will generate different patterns than an eve side. The front of my house faces north, but during the peak summer months the shade line is just a few feet past the edge of the porch (just ask the hosta that I planted in a shading spring location that suffered in the full summer sun). It is likely to be a little different in Illinois, but I don't think you can count on your house to provide the shade for a patio all summer.

- Brent

I'm not much of a sun-sitter myself but there are different qualities to shade. A bright shade, such as might be created on the south side of a house with trees overhead, or by sitting under an umbrella on a sunny day is a lovely experience. Sitting in a kind of dank, dim shade, such as might be created by a partially or totally enclosed porch on the north side of a house (especially with the blank wall of house at your back) can be a totally unpleasant experience. And lets not talk pergolas/arbors - I'd love one, they can be so lovely but I have one word for the experience of sitting under one in zone 5 - earwigs. Two more words also come to mind - large spiders. (creeping under a blanket now to shiver not only with the cold but with total mental bug freak out)

When we moved into our current house, there were two patios: one on the west side, and one on the east side. The east patio seemed to stay damp all the time, and we eventually removed it. Even the dogs didn't like to sit out there. Part of the problem may have been that it was up against the house, and didn't get much air circulation.

The west side was an oven in the summer afternoons, and we eventually removed that one too, reusing some of the old materials for a new patio on the south (back) side of the house, under the shade of a large maple. Even with the dense shade of a huge sugar maple, the south side is not as damp, and very pleasant even when the weather is not terribly hot. Plus it's more convenient to the kitchen, as neither of the old patios were.

I agree that you should spend some time in those areas before deciding which ones you find the most comfortable before committing funds to a construction project.