... estimate the squarefootage ...

There are a number of ways, some better than others.
Check the link below. Come back if you need help with your particular case.

Here is a link that might be useful: onsite area calculations

Thanks pls8xx, interesting link. Guess this answers my question--- hard to know how my contractor estimated. I spent some time estimating every irregular square on my concrete and jamming the numbers into my calculator. I came up with 760, he estimated 1100 --- now I have to get him to refund $3000---should be interesting.

How much concrete was used? A cubic yard will pour 81 square feet four inches deep.

Ichabod

Ichabod--- good point I will ask how much was poured. This contractor said that his min is usually 1100 sqft, and that is what he charged for--- do most concrete contractors charge a min square footage? Does the contractor pay the concrete company for what he orders, or what he uses?

In his quotation to you, did he give you a price per square foot or a lump sum price. If it is a price per square foot, he should come back afterwards and measure the as-built quantities. If it was a lump sum price, you agreed to pay the lump sum, no matter what the size is.

The contractor pays the concrete company for what he order.

Do you folks thing this contract is a lump sum price or price per square foot?

It read as follows:
Pool Deck : Square Feet : 1100
Acid Washed Concrete $9900

He quoted a price for a square footage that is 50% higher than what I have. Since the pool was not dug at the time, it was a little hard to know what the sqfootage of the deck would be, so I intend to argue that his initial quote was way high--- does this make sense?

Talk to an attorny rather than a bunch of gardeners.

I don't think that a court would see that as anything other than a proposal to do an 1100 sf deck for $9900. If he did an 1100 SF deck, he should get his $9900. If he did not, than he is probably not entitled to it.

But what the heck do I know, I'm just a landscape architect on Cape Cod?

Posting here is not going to get you anywhere.

As presented... he gave you a lump sum bid that detailed the quantity of material to be used and the services. A unit price bid would be phrased as $X/per square foot.

Before you authorized the work, did the contractor tell you his minimum pour was 1,100 sqft and did you review his/your work estimate assumptions after the pool was excavated?

In my field (not concrete) we use fixed price lump sum contracts all the time. If we can pull in the job to the Scope of work specifications in a faster time (i.e. less labor) or with the need for less materials (due to value engineering) then that adds to our gross margin. We would rarely give money back, unless some scope of work line item simply was not performed.

It appears that you assumed a lot of risk with the unknown of the amount of concrete needed not being known, but once the pool was excavated you could have asked for a revised cost estimate. At that time, your contractor may have refused the job as too small or simply re=stated his minimum pour.

You need an attorney at best to sort through these issues or some sort of arbitration to come to a settlement. Sounds unfortunate, but you may have gotten an expensive lesson in project management and contracting.

laag--- thanks you are probably right; however, there are some folks here that are in the business--- was just curious what they thought

Thanks

I would be one of those very few folks.

The whole problem hinges around whether or not there is 1,100 SF of concrete or not. If you go to court with nothing more than your measurement and his, he may be seen as more likely to know how to measure (rightly or wrongly).

You have to have someone with more credibility certify the size of that surface to determine in fact what the actual size is. A land surveyor can do that for you, but it will cost you. You might ask someone who is experienced at measuring such things to do so and write up their estimate.

Right now, you believe that it is not 1,100 SF, but you also do not really know how to measure it, so it may be 1100.

The whole thing is really just speculation at this point.

I would have a problem working out the amount of concrete (measured as a volume) needed if only the surface area was specified. Presumably this was ready mixed and not mixed on site concrete, in which case if the contractor ordered in units specified by the concrete company he would have added some to avoid error as it is always better to have more than less. He would have to pay for what he ordered not what he used.

I think the real answer you seek is the amount you were legally obligated to pay.

laag was right. The best advice will come from a local attorney, and the answer can only be made by the court.

Many come to this site seeking to educate themselves a bit on landscaping before making the selection of a designer to do the work, not as a replacement for the pro.

In the same light, a better understanding of basic legal principles may prepare you for the questions your lawyer will ask and the advice he will give. The issue is driven by the anticipation of what the court ruling would be.

The first thing that comes to my mind is whether there was a contract or not. If there was no contract, and I speak here in the legal sense, the payment amount is a matter of equity. Both parties may give evidence as to the customary value of the goods and services provided. A ruling under equity often leaves both sides feeling they lost. The lawyers do just fine. It's one of the best reasons to always have a contract.

A valid contract will always have certin features. If one of the essentials is missing, then it isn't a contract. A contract contains the idenity of the parties, an element of consideration or compensation for each of the parties that acts as an inducement for them to accept the contract, and evidence that they willfully bind themselves to the agreement, usually shown by their signature.

There are some basics that apply to contracts. For a written contract, the court presumes that all terms and conditions were reduced to writing. In short, the contract is it, and nothing else will be considered. There are two exceptions. Where a contract referes to another document of source of information, then that document becomes a part of the contract. Where the terms of a contract are unclear the court may look outside the contract, but only to explain that which was in the contract.

The court will seek to enforce the entent of the parties as expressed in the contract.

Where, after consideration, the language of a contract lends itself to two interpretations, the court will construe the meaning against the party that drafted or provided the contract and in favor of the other party.

There can also be what I call an inplied contract. Where there is no valid contract, but an estimate or schedule of fees has been provided, and the work goes forward with the knowledge and consent of the other party, his silence during the work is exended by the principle of estoppel, and he is prevented from denying the terms of the estimate.

You ask if the concrete work was done as a per unit cost or lump sum. The court will search the four corners of the contract to understand the intent of the parties. Without seeing the actual documents I can't even make a guess.

I hope this has been of help.

Wow pls8xx-- that was quite a response, thanks for your time! There was a contract, but it was probably too simple. The pertinent lines read:

Pool Deck : Square Feet : 1100
Acid Washed Concrete $9900

Most of the other language was discalimers about hairline cracks, coloration, etc.

Laag--- I measured the concrete accurately by reducing the freeform area to smaller squares. Problem was that his estimate was made off of the pool Builders drawing, so it was a rough estimate.

Maybe this was an expensive lesson in contracts, but I am somewhat experienced with home building and I didn't think I was naive. This guy was "highly recommended" by the PB and I read the language as an estimate. I have to think that there are allot of people getting ripped-off if this is the standard business practice. I don't think allot of my neighbors could work a tape measure.

Thanks for all the help, guess it's off to do battle on this one.

The link below is some good reading for those who deal with contracts.

Here is a link that might be useful: Understanding Contracts

I would be one of those folks in the concrete business also. I would say that the contractor worded it a little wrong. I think you can certaily argue the square footage if its wrong. You can tell hime what you think it is. You can tell him how much it is per square foot ($9.00) and how much of a discount you thing you should recieve and prepare to meet him halfway between what you want and what he wants.

However I believe it meant that price as a lump sum price, he should have put Lump Sum and not included the square footage. Very rarely do I give residential work a price per square foot/ linear foot/ ect. I give a price per to other contractors. The typical residential client doesnt understand that when its a price per, that the quantities are measured after the work is done in the field. This means the price can be lower or higher that what the quote says. Residents want a firm price to compare to others.

By the way, hiring a land surveyor to tell you how big it is will work, but the price will probably offset any money you would save by it being smaller that quoted.

Good luck

To follow-up with all who gave advice--- the landscape company say's "check's in the mail" for the difference between the quoted square footage of 1100 and the actual of about 730.

Referencing the above -- I have a feeling he quotes sqft high, because most people don't go and measure the deck--- then if a few call him on it-- he simply says-- oh, yeah, you're right, no problem.

I have found, after the fact, that some pool salesman in the same PB wil not recommend him, due to complaints --- which does make me angry with PB...

Glad you were able to resolve it.