if I am in the wrong forum, let me know.

Thanks,
Nicole

>You think it would look too cluttered?

Yes. And I'm clutter-tolerant if it works for the style.

It bothers me that I would have to traverse a maze to get to the little area with the bench.

If your yard was 3 x the size it is, I could see this sort of layout, but being so small, it looks very uncomfortable to me, especially as your house has a lot of detail and is cluttered in itself (with all the arches, etc.).

I think you are in the right forum. I think you are trying hard and have done some homework but seem to be stuck in a twilight zone. One thing that strikes me is that it seems like you are wishing you didnt have a spanish style house. It is what it is (and it's lovely). I just read an article on interior lighting design, and one of the suggestions was to match the lighting style to the style of the house, no matter what the style or taste of furniture and accessories. It made perfect sense to me.

I wish some of the Landscape Architects/Designers would voice their opinions and offer some guidance. This could be a very good learning opportunity for many of us. Why isn't it working?? What should she do? What could she do?

My opinion is that you are working from the inside out. You are seeing a space and trying to determine how to fill it. It is like doodling on a piece of paper. There must be some purpose behind what you are doing in order for it to have purpose. What do you want to do in the space? How do you want that space to affect your house? These do not seem to be quests that you are looking to complete. Until you have a goal, you can not achieve it.

It would look cluttered even if the paths were a simple decomposed granite? And the plants next to them were low lying shrubs?

What's the alternative? Fill the whole area with plants...no focus, no interruption? That doesn't seem right either!

My only goal as I stated earlier, is an edible garden that looks nice. I want my veggies and fruits in my front yard, that's it...plain and simple. However, I need to find a way to encompass them without looking tacky...not so simple. I *could* just do rows and rows of redwood planter boxes as I did in my backyard. However, not too pleasant, eh?

I have never given a second thought to how it would effect the house until this forum. I have always just planted plants I like. :)

I love the spanish style of your house, I'd be happy to trade my crappy traditional ranch for something with that kind of character.

I agree that embracing the style of your home is probably the best route. Use your trees and other plants in such a way that guests will be guided to the path and front door logically. Mediterranean plants that help accentuate your focal point. I think a good location for the citrus would be to place one to the left of the front window (at least 8 feet from the house), sort of framing the window from the edge of the yard and helping hide the fence. Place the other one closer to the street but still to the left of your property, maybe a a little more right than the first tree but not so far right that it is centered in front of the window. These plants should function as the backbone to your yard. Fill in around the citrus with other mediterannean plants and groundcovers. This will help to define the left side of your property and help function as a barrier. Continue the ornamental plants around across the front of your yard, near the sidewalk, and around the driveway.

I think once you get your focal point and your accent plants, you should just grow your veggies toward the center of the yard,hiding them as best you can, and wait and see. I think the worst offenders are corn, sunflowers, and other plants that get hiz-uge. Tomatoes, especially if you stick with determinate, keep them pruned, and grow them furthest from the street, should be okay. Squash and most other vines should be okay crawling on the ground or a support trellis. You could grow something on that railing outside the window. One of your neighbors is going to have to complain before you get ticketed, it's not like the cops are patrolling neighborhoods looking for someone growing food in their front yard.

Really, I think it is highly unlikely that you'll get ticketed, you'll probably get a warning before they ticket you. My mom lives in Sacramento and she grows corn, melon, pumpkin, squash, raspberries, strawberries in the front yard. She also grows cannas, pelargonium, agapanthus, pomegranate, daylilies, iris, fortnight lily, crape myrtle, and other things I've forgotten. I know a few others in Sac county who grow veg in their front yard without problem. The key is to keep it neat and tidy.

Getting back to the topic of design: since you're going to have a lot of diversity with the veggies, use a lot of repetition with the ornamentals in your yard to tie everything together and give the impression of cohesion. If the yard looks good and cohesive, it is less likely that someone will notice that you're not growing the usual stuff.

Thank you, melle. Where abouts does your mom live...can I do a drive-by for ideas? :)

Hmmm. I don't think I'd give a complete stranger my mother's home address.

I don't live in a place where citrus will grow outdoors, but will you be able to walk around them when they've grown a bit without having your head in the branches?

The only way you'll find out if your design works and pleases you is to do it. What's the worst thing that can happen, you'll have to change some things?

I agree with Melle. I think that the case of being cited for growing veggies last year was in the CITY, not in the county and I'm guessing (based on the age of your house and the appearance of your neighborhood) that you're not in the city, but rather in one of the newer suburbs either on the south or north.

I'm in Carmichael and I've seen a few houses in my neighborhood with veggies in the front yard. There are also a few houses with small front yards like yours in the new subdivisions (like Gibbons Ranch) with no lawns.

you keep mentioning wine barrels. Are those something you bought already? I'm not a designer, but it seems like a big urn or some other mediterranean style pot would be more consistent with your house's architecture. If you are on a tight budget, a trip to the pottery outlet in the bay area (San Leandro?) is a good way to get cheap pots.

saypoint, you're right...sorry melle...strike the mom's address idea...poor thinking on my part

also, saypoint, people say I am not thinking this through and you're telling me just to do it....um...I am *trying* to execute patience and forethought...2 very difficult things for me! You're not helping! :P As for the citrus, I figured a 6' dia. tree with a 2' path around it (thus the 10' dia).

lunita, I am near Elk Grove and we do have *one* neighbor that calls the county to ticket things. For example, they have called on a basketball hoop being on the sidewalk and a truck being parked too long on the street. This is the neighbor that worries me. :( My other neighbors could care less. They are all very friendly.

Anyhow, the wine barrels (which I have *not* purchased) I thought of because I can get a whole barrel for $25 and have dh cut it to varying heights. I figure I can group them in 3's and place them around the perimeter up towards the porch and get at least 4 groups in there. I like them because they are more natural and not very formal. Pottery seems very formal to me...maybe I haven't seen the right styles? I'll have to look up the bay area one; I hear they are cheap in Tijuana, too. :)

Where is Gibbons Ranch? Maybe I'll do a drive thru. There is a neighbor that has an awesome front yard here....dry stream bed, clusters of plants, very beautiful. However, I can't copy his because we are doing completely different things.

I just have never seen what I am doing, this is why I am having such a difficult time.

Thanks for the input! It is very much appreciated!
Nicole

If the citrus is a dwarf on flying dragon rootstock, the tree will be smallish, under 6 ft. If is an orange, it will be dense and opaque, if it is a meyer lemon, it will be airy and see-through. Citrus do not like anything planted underneath within the drip line as they have many small roots just under the surface. A well cared-for citrus can be a beautiful landscape plant, especially in a mediteranean or semi-tropical setting. They are blooming in my garden right now and the scent is heavenly.

I think you can't visualize how planted areas can be anything but just "full of plants." Of course you need focus, but you're looking to paths to create it. Not needed!

Purpose and expectations.

Purpose for the garden, as Laag says. Expectations for the forum.

From a discussion with perfect strangers, you won't get a decision. It will remain up to you to put it all together into a garden that works for you. If you can't come up with the vision as a whole from the outset, then there really is nothing better than getting started and working out the details as you go along.

You know, it sounds to me as though there is one thing on which you are quite comfortably settled, and that is the diagonal pathway (the one whose purpose I couldn't see). Now that you have make that little circle for the tree in it, it actually looks pretty good, and it makes you a nice triangular bed alongside the driveway. Why not begin by installing all that? Plant the tree, make the walk, plant up the bed. Figure out how to edge at the driveway. Leave the rest drafted in pencil for now.

It sounds like you are going to be using movable materials too. Plants are movable, too. You're not pouring concrete.

I think the purpose of the garden will become more clear as you work and see whether you find spots to put your edibles and your wine barrels. I wouldn't buy anything, including wine barrels, until you have the spot picked out. I agree that they might not end up seeming like the right thing.

I'm a little afraid to say much because I can't come up with something that gives clear direction. but here I go anyway.

I think a general concept of Spanish/Medit/veggie can certainly work if done right.

I think the plan should be maybe a little more formal than you think--or maybe, help me someone, STRONGER and leaner than you think. The house is not symmetrical but to me it is somehow strong. And I would think in terms of fewer, larger portions in yard, not lots of tiny areas--sort of the clutter thing, but maybe even more somehow identifying some lines of sight or lines related to the house. Less of a jungle, for your house, would look better. I wish I could actually put it in the right terms. For example, you need to be thinking of what you see when you walk out your front door, and what is seen--the house behind the garden--from the street. Not "what you see" in terms of pretty, color, etc but what is lined up with what, doors, entry etc.

The wine barrel thing is not so bad--I can't use terra cotta well outdoors all season here, it cracks in winter, but if I were in a non-freezing zone I would because it just looks so timeless. What I would point out is that what can look funky with the barrels is that they can stick up too high and be unrelated to the ground, not grounded, whatever. You could specifically try to avoid that by having some kind of graduated heights as you mentioned--higher container surrounded by lower, blending into ground--or by other plants around them--or if a tall container is a specific focal point. But avoid multiple things randomly sticking up out of the ground scattered over the area. Have a purpose for a barrel. It should not be just to avoid another better form of raised planting--although the "temporary" concept can be part of your plan--if you're tearing up the whole yard, you may well need to actually USE the yard for your beds; otherwise if only doing a few planters you could have left the grass.

You need very few if any garden ornaments in this size yard--especially if you are using several containers. Same for rocks, rock paths. YOu can't eat them; they just take up space, add extra elements. You can have paths to allow you to get around and to your plants or to provide a clearer line of sight, but there should be a reason.

Have larger groups of plantings of similar type--sweeps. You might want to even go slower on your veggies at first and use enough good-looking, including evergreen, unifying herbs/shrubs/groundcover and add more "crops" as you feel things are working out and as you see what looks good enough for front-yard gardening. That might have been a reason not to kill all your grass before the plan was made, but I understand how you got there!

Since I really can't do this myself, the main distillation might be,less is more for now, simpler larger plantings and let the complexity develop more over time if it is really needed. Good luck.

As I found out, you can return plants, landscape materials and yard ornaments back to the store if they don't look right. I had to spend a lot of time moving things around, trying out combos before I planted, even after planting I ended up having to move some shrubs and perennials. As the great Mich a former member of this board told me, if in doubt, just mulch it over for awhile.

Yes, I second third and fourth the above comments! Get the plants in and start making a statement. :-) Get them in before it becomes too hot--summer is really brutal on new transplants no matter how drought tolerant and heat resistant they are.

Gibbons Ranch is at Engle and Mission, in Carmichael.

My mom's yard is not a very good example of a well thought out design plan; I think the neighbors like the flowers and my parents have lived there for almost 30 years (my entire lifetime) so their eccentricities are tolerated (they had weeds in the front all the years I lived at home so I guess the current incarnation is better).

I had a thought regarding your pathway: perhaps you could try stepping stones (I really like the ones that have exposed aggregate but I don't know if that fits the style of your home) and put them where you think the path should be. Then, as you start to work in your yard, you'll really get a feel for whether or not it's in the best place and, if not, they're pretty easy to move around. When you're ready to commit then put in the decomposed granite or mulch or whatever path material you select.

OK--I've got a new and totally different idea--maybe you could draw inspiration form local area wineries. Many wineries have a Spanish or Mediterranean style architecture, so that will be working for you. You seem to want to use the wine barrels, and this theme will make their use seem more appropriate. At wineries, they often use roses at the end of each row (something about symbiosis or mutual pests) so that will give you a reason behind incorporating roses. Though no one will ever mistake a kiwi vine for a grape, you could build a fence support for the kiwi that is reminiscent of a grape arbor. You could possibly even get away with using grapes (how about the lovely purple-leafed variety). And the use of a vineyard theme would be an excellent tie-in with the use of veggies (inconspicuously, of course) because a family-owned vineyard would probably have its own kitchen garden somewhere near the home.

As far as your hardscape plans, I think less will be more. Fewer features, but more dramatic and meaningful. maybe...ditching the pond and planting that area and flying a square patio (surrounded by greenery on all sides) from the outside corner of the path.

Keep in mind, this is just my untrained .02