Thanks y'all - Mowing? (dunno - not my problem) =)
Here are more pics as requested. Grass has come up - but still shouldn't walk on it. Will throw in a pic of the front yard for the hosta lovers out there.
Many of these plants are new to me (boxwoods I want eventually in a formal short hedge, water plants in fountain etc.. which is why I popped into these forums hoping to find some tips. FUNNY DISTORTION is from my wide angle lens...

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Whew ! Nice to see the *green* grass! Really like the big stones and brickwork, very nice.

On my god! that couldn't be more beautiful!
Wow!

Haziemoon

Those are beautiful hostas and the wooden floor on the porch is gorgeous, but 'Southern'?? I dunno - looks more like a resort hotel than a romantic mansion to me.

Spectacular! Do you have a fulltime gardener to maintain that?

Thanks!
We have a service - (not full time) we like to dabble a little, really shouldn't require that much maintainance. Let the service do their thing and it gives us time to tweak the little things.

resort? - funny you should say that, that is what we call it - our resort... as that's how it feels. Like we're on vacation all the time - we never want to leave. And the inside is cooler than the outside.

Seems pretty southern to us - though we didn't worry about "authentic" we used a lot of the concepts we found in old plantation books and pics. Of course in our below zero winters we can't have the wonderful palms and many of the cool southern plants. But we have some large potted palms out front that we take in during the winter. Some Cala's and some large elephant ears as suppose to pop up (if they ever do?)
Most of the inspiration pictures in in books upstairs, that I can't share... but a few ideas of the 'feel' were gleaned from snapshots.

Courtyard look, and old red brick (used a lot). We found OLD brick locally - I did the two color for a more formal look. (also seen a lot in many of the books) Used the formal symmetrical look from this too.
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Formal boxwoods are used in abondance... I want mine to make a small tight edge like we see in almost all the southern pictures. (like these that edge this patio.)
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Red Brick path with "edge" effect again - will take some time to get it to grow up this lush. (the front of the house has a 200+ year old OAK that is magnificant.
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Some "Freeform" edging to add a more natural feel and less square - (had to add a little updated feel)
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Layer of plants (taller hedge out front, with slightly lower bushes, for that stacked hedge look- hopefully our lilies will help give this stacked look to the boxwoods.
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Another lined path of brick.
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Just southern rail and yard - would love to add some hanging moss = (
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More old brick in a formalish courtyard feel.
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More red brick - circle fountains - I have tons of these pictures from all over the south.
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And still another red brick circular fount, tufty grass lined pathways.
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Our home was designed and built by a couple that went to SC to study the architecture and based it on that. Most of the furnishings were purchased down there at that time.The porch we've found in several of the old plantation books that we purchased. (Except they have a painted wood floor in gray usually). So dunno what south you're thinking of but certainly has that look to us northerners. (but with a updated twist) ;-)

rojoyinc, i get the "southern".

yours is just much, much newer.

what you did made me think of savannah GA off the bat (before reading anyone else's comments).

i am from NC, though, and never saw anything like this there, so I get what the others are saying too.

The south is bigger and more varied than we think.

rojoyinc, which river are you on? (Grand Rapids native here...)

Beautiful, and it sounds like it made your home even more comfortable, which is (to me, anyway!) the hallmark of successful landscaping.

Love it, Love it, Love it! You did a magnificent job, Enjoy!

LOL about the practicality of getting the mower from one place to the next! I thought about this thread as I was mowing the other day.

Struggling with how to make a gentle, natural transition from the lawn to the periphery woodlands without destroying all the bounty natural flora provides I decided the lawnmower would be my "go-to" tool. I used it to define the portion of the lawn that really needs to return to the "fern field". I mow the lawn and I want it to be as easy as possible. I like grass, but I also like the things that define southern, coastal Maine throughout the year. They're more interesting than turf, frankly.

Rojoyinc, I'd be interested to know what made the backyard "nasty"... do you have pictures of the way it looked before you installed your landscaping? Have you incorporated native plants in your plan?

First pic in the thread is BEFORE.
There WAS lots of grass to mow (I don't mow it) our service does, LESS to mow now, I like that better. We have massive mowing out front already.

They fertilized and mowed it for the first time last week without a hitch. The edge of all the grass is lined by metal edging sunken into the ground, so there isn't any unwanted "mingling" of grass and other plantings.

Thanks. I was expecting something far more wild and out of control, "nasty"!, than the sedate first picture you posted. (you know, "lions and tigers and bears, oh my!")

I guess you didn't use any native plants in your plan, huh?

In the interest of honesty on this forum and to contribute to its stated purpose of a "discussion of the technical and aesthetic issues involved in landscape and garden design," I will say that this is an example of a landscape that feels like the soul has been removed. It feels very static and "dead" to me. Looking at your inspiration pictures, I see a liveliness, a sense of place and time that is lacking from your yard. Your yard looks whipped into submission.

I understand that you are very happy with that and, honestly, that is what is important...but I would feel depressed to spend much time there. Also, the impossible-to-mow quality of it seems the only thing truly "Southern" about it...very Scarlett O'Hara, "Oh, fiddley-dee".

Patty

Patty, for some time I have been pondering how much of that is simply the immaturity of the plantings at this point vs. design and materials issues, except that there will not be much height potential in the current plant choices in the back. Also the raw new "edges," which even in a formal design will look better as, and if, a bit of disarray begins to occur. The earlier thread about achieving age in the landscape is relevant here. For example, if one would look at even a great landscape design at the very first day of its installation, it will often take quite a bit of imagination and at least a year or 2 minimum to get from there to the lovely photos in books ( I mean, static is a good term for a newly installed landscape on a bare slate because things really haven't started to GROW there).

Well -- the landscape is brand new - like yesterday. Those photos must be of decades-old properties. What does it need to take on some character? I'd guess it's not a finished landscape as the OP wants to do some gardening there.

I think it was interesting to see what was done.

Besides, the OP didn't ask for an opinion. "Hoping to find some tips" is the way it was put. So, what would you do at this point to make it look, not more "Southern" because he's happy with that aspect, but more aged and alive?

I'd like to know what kind of tips the OP was looking for.

-Maro

Frankie - I didn't see yours before I posted. I agree with what you said.

Maro

I suppose that should moss be allowed to grow in the spaces between the bricks and plants be allowed to fall over the stone wall and things allowed to intermingle a bit, then, yes, it might be less static. And certainly, the fact that the plants are young and freshly placed, as it were, adds to the sense of being rigid.

However, the blazing sameness of the plantings...dozens and dozens of the same thing one right after another in carefully planned "groupings" and artistically placed rows is a little too much for me. Soon the plants will be masses of homogeneity. "Here" are the boxwoods, "here" are the daylilies, "here" are the annuals for color, and so forth.

There was an earlier thread on this forum about happy accidents in the garden. I don't see any room here for any accidents, happy or otherwise.

I admit that I am a rank amateur, a design neophyte. However, I stand by my statement that even in a few years, unless something very dramatic is changed in this landscape, it would still depress me beyond measure to spend time here. But I don't have to.

Patty

Perhaps postings from non-designers, non-gardners, non-maintainers/mowers, and presenting finished sites for our enjoyment not recieved as well as postings from participants in the process?

So, judgeing by the performance of that hydroseed in just 21 days I'd say that its probably rye grass, which is fine, but it will fizzle as time goes on, it starts great but it doesn't have staying power, if you want a southern lawn I would recomend seeding in with some thinner bladed slower to develop grasses, the only way to keep a lawn looking lush all through spring summer and fall is to blend grasses anyways.

Also, on a side note, What do you think of your EOS-1Ds MK II?

Patty, I think it should be taken into consideration that this is the yard of a non-gardener (for the most part). This family has a service. I'm guessing that rojoyinc spends more time at the office than in the yard--and probably uses the yard for evening or weekend dinners with the family or something like that. To someone who isn't puttering about with the plants for a good chunk of the day (but quite possible sitting around a fancy conference table for much of it), this yard is full of life.

I'd like to see it in 10 years!!!

Barefoot,I wasn't going to say it becaue rojoyinc is very happy with it which is all that really matters but it depresses me too. It doesn't have anything to do with age as an issue for me, of course it will look more lush in time but as an overall landscape it just seems so out of context. It looks like corporate headquarters landscaping, for all the effort that was made to find things that the owner would like it to resemble, there is no sense of the personal about it. I also think chelone's comments about native plants has something to do with the problem for me. The house is set into a natural landscape (grasses, river or lake, native woodland) that is full of a sense of a particular place and the landscaping turns its back on that.

I get the sense that I would like to muss it all up a bit, give it a few rumples which is why I think people keep mentioning time as a great equalizer - a lttle entropy can work miracles! Maybe to hasten that process I'd ask the service to come less often - once a season or so might do wonders for it!

Spunky, you make a good point; that this is a "low-maintenance" garden for a non-gardener who is pleased with the result and will likely be happy to have a morning cup of coffee or evening cocktail overlooking "the grounds" but may not feel the need to venture close enough to smell the roses. In that way the design is successful, I guess. But is it "good design" (relating to the another thread)?

Accordian, I agree that there is a lack of time and place. Rather like the stores that one can see in any mall in any town in the U.S. (and perhaps abroad). It was Chelone's comment about the lack of relatedness to the surrounding woods that got me thinking.

Honestly, I wish rojoy was still around to comment. Nothing gives a garden more life than the presence of the person who loves it.

Patty

I think I know this area....I could be way off. I would like to see the street and the landscaping on the surrounding properties. Granite pillars and custom signs at the driveway entrances or untouched woods with no markings? (Somehow I think it's the pillars). The lake isn't the only context. It sits within a neighborhood.

I understand what you are saying Patty/Accordian/Chelone--we went to Drummond Island once (way up MI, Sault St. Marie area) to visit some locals, and they were broken hearted their little island was discovered and was beginning to be developed. Mansions next to tiny wood cottages with no landscaping at all.

I am dejected reading posts here these days. Rojoy gets criticised for doing too much (i.e. spending too much on the "wrong" things), and poor happy's wife gets lambasted for working too hard yet not doing enough (on a tiny budget).

Everything comes down to money. Is no one happy???

I hesitate to post my own progress because people seem to take things so out of their context.

Spunky, I don't think it comes down to money at all, honestly this landscape doesn't look all that tremendously posh to me, it just bothers me personally because it looks out of context with the surroundings we see in the photos. But you are right, it may fit in perfectly with the neighborhood and I should go suck a lemon!

I wasn't just criticizing though. Because I was kind of serious about my suggestion of lightening up on the service contract. Barefoot mentioned happy accidents which can't happen if everything is micromanaged (whatever your budget).

Also (climbing up on little self-righteous soapbox here), since when is blind praise the only acceptable contribution to this forum anyway? I said what I didn't like about the landscape, I'd really seriously like to hear what some of the people who merely said, "How beautiful; truly lovely," and such just what they really liked about it because I may learn a new way of looking at things. I freely admit I'm not always right (but don't tell that to my husband!)

Oops, didn't mean that blind praise is the only acceptable contribution to this forum--don't mean that at all! I think Patty made a valid point, actually, a valid INTERPRETATION (sorry about all caps, I don't know how to make something look italic) although I do worry about hurt feelings because some posters on this forum haven't been around long enough to know you have to wear your thick skin to post here!

There are many landscapes posted where my first thought is, why did you bother?? You ruined it! And some of these are professional designs.

But I know that my criteria is separate from the reality. I hate water features, almost all of them. There are very few that I embrace. I also hate tangled, messy looking landscapes a la that German trend of mixing heights and colors etc. that was posted in the "what's the next thing" thread. My taste runs to the clean, neat, whimsical, cared for, using ONLY historically appropriate natural materials (DH was the one who pushed for fiberglass collums on my house).

But does my dislike mean that something is badly designed? Or are these assessments more reflective of my own limited interpretation??

I never can buy into black and white. I think it's gray.

I also think this landscape looks a bit severe for the setting, but I'd like to see some pictures of it in 5 years or so, when the plants have matured a bit and everything doesn't look quite so perfect. Right now it looks a bit too shiny, but it's brand spankin' new, so that's to be expected. If this was a garden that was maintained by the homeowner, it probably would look a bit more relaxed. Those mow and blow guys can make it look too manicured. It's the outdoors for crying out loud.

What I don't understand is the free-form design. All but one of the pictures shown as examples were designed with traditional geometric shapes, which is what gives them "the look" IMO.

The free-form design may have been an effective way to work with the slope and still get from point A (steps) to point B (gate to dock). To lend consistency, other swirls would follow. Or the looping grass and beds may be a signature style of the designer, which appealed to the homeowner.

The view from below, looking up the path toward the house is very inviting, and I especially like the way the large stones were stacked as a gentle retaining wall, following the contours of the lot.

The brickwork is very well executed and nicely graded. Had the designer employed used brick, it might have had more appeal for those of you who don't like shiny new pennies.

The lapse occurs for me when I see the view looking down on the dining table, where the existing rectangular concrete joins the curving brick. This is not a smooth transition, visually. If rojoyinc had an extra 30 grand, he could have removed the existing concrete and started fresh, maybe going with the look in inspirational photo #8, the "formalish courtyard", or carrying through with all curves. But I say give the guy a break, he's got to be enjoying the view, the fountain and the path, and it's dramatically more interesting than a lot of what we see on this forum.

Is it my taste? No, but I can appreciate the view.

If you look at the inspirational photos about 2/5ths are free form, I think it will look very southern and fit in nicely when the bricks have aged and when the plants reach a more mature size, if you look at the brick walk while the lawn is still dirt you get a feel for what it will probably look like after a few seasons have passed, although I get the sneekin suspicion that the bricks were sealed because of how nicely they cleaned up after having all that dirt tracked across them.

Spunk_MA_Z6, if you type your text inside of those tags it will come out your text Italicised I just added a space after the "

Thanks Brendan.

Catkim, I completely agree with everything you said. I think the free form is very well thought out and the curves are balanced. The look up to the house from the dock is very inviting, and the hostas in the trees are lovely.

And Spunky, if you are feeling adventerous - I learned from Shag that if you use a "b" instead of and "i" it looks like this and you can say "font color=red(or green or blue or whatever) to make it look like thiscolor=purple> and "font size=12 (or 24 or 85) so it looks like thissize=3->.

Fun, huh?

My only contribution to this thread so far has been "I think it looks quite nice" and I stick by that statement. I actually spent several minutes looking over the original set of photos before I posted. It is not a style that I would want, but I do think it is a well designed and executed example.

There were two aspects that bothered me (disclaimer: I am just an amateur gardener). One was the harsh transition from manicured lawn to wild area near the lake. My thoughts are that a shrub border (plants like viburnums, dogwoods and azaleas) would help to soften the transition. Maybe that "putting green" shaped area of grass could be replaced with some type of mixed planting.

The other aspect was the choice of material. There are the large rock retaining walls (which I love), the two colors of brick, the concrete blocks of the fountain, and the limestone (?) fountain edging. This is a lot of different materials and they don't seem to tie in with the yellow of the house, the white of the stairs and railing, the wood porch floor and you have to include the wooden dock. I would like to see some of the architecture of the staircase repeated out in the landscape...maybe a white pergola or some other white accent pieces.

Again, I thank rojoyinc for posting the pictures. Starting a "show and tell" type thread on this forum can be a bit risky.

- Brent

I know very little about landscape design but I really want to learn. The landscape certainly is impressive, but seems designed for just that. It is too perfect, too neat. It resembles how my husband would like our home (inside) to look, but not how a real family lives. My first thoughts would be to use old bricks with grass between them for the path and to have flowers and things growing out of the rock wall crevices. I'd lose the two flower pots by the fountain entrance and put one on the side of the stone bench. The other could go on the porch or somewhere else. I'd also plant some climbing ivy by the fountain to tie in with my grassy brick path. The good thing about this is that I was all set to outline my stamped concrete patio in boxwoods. Not anymore. There is a wild hedgerow behind my house (wild roses, cherry trees, and goodness knows what else). I am realizing the boxwood is way to formal to be compatible. More like combatible.

Jo

Old bricks with grass between them will soon turn into old bricks with grass growing completely over them, unless you want to go out and edge each brick individually on a regular basis.

that is stunning. I love it! Although I've never lived in the south, I have visited often & if you didn't tell me I would have thought it was on a southern river or lake somewhere.
It is beautiful, enjoy it!

I didn't realize that about the bricks. But it does explain why in every home we've owned (in CT), we seem to "unearth" brick patios. Does flagstone have the same problem?
Jo

Yes. Since flagstone is larger, it will take longer, but yes, grass will also completely grow over flagstone also.

You can trim the grass back about once a month during the summer, but for a large number of paving stones, it can become a long and tedious job.

I was raised in the South (Miss, Ala, La) and I think the design would fit in perfectly. Lovely!
Have to add that I never think of palm trees when I think of 'Southern'. Maybe pines, oaks and magnolias, but never palms.
I can easily visualize rojo's landscape in about 3-5 yrs when the plants have matured a little, fill in the 'open' spaces and add softness around the edges.

I believe I read where a couple of posters think rojo used new brick. Rojo can correct me but I believe he/she stated " We found OLD brick locally - I did the two color for a more formal look".

jojo, if done right, boxwood looks great mixed with other informal plants. It makes a nice contrast with the native plants in my yard. Of course, it's not sheared!

It DEFINATELY HAS TO MATURE - geeze - and there is still a lot of places to fill in with surprises and some disarray.
I hope to eliminate all the bark over time. Lots more ivy to add. But it's a start. Already things have loosened up a great deal. Cracks in brick are now getting dark and alge is growing here and there. Even some less than desireable black mold in places - but it makes it look more aged which was the plan from the start.

Of course I'm not looking for anyone's approval - We are the ones that have to look at it and suffer with it. ;-)
Just wanted to share and say we're loving it all. I do hope to get the large concrete area stained in a mottled tan - that's the one area I don't like looking at, but to take out a nearly new driveway of that size just didn't sound good to me. The neighborhood - hmmm not sure if you can call it that. We're on a dirt road, a farm and cows across the street, HUGE TREES line both sides of the road and totally reach over the top of it for an awesome canopy - just coming down the street takes us back 50 years. I'll post more when I shoot them... the Ivy around the fountain is really doing nice and is starting to climb up the sides. The press has already asked if they could do a Home and Garden cover story on it in color next spring.

Here's some more.

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Im pretty impressed with this project. For one thing, the owners DID the research that some here are allways squealling about. For another, He loves it! I have seen so many folks start ambitious projects, then for what ever reason run out of time, or perhaps they underestimated the amount of time it would take to maintain, and all the great intentions, NOt to mention great Plants fizzle out like so many scorched hostas. I think its lots better to be honest about what your time commitment could be than to skip the whole experience. Its also true as one poster stated, The South is a big place with lots of styles, and area nuances. I allways associate Southern Style with the liniar formal straght, brick lined paths and beds of English estate gardening. Thats just because thats what I saw first. When I visited Saint Augustine, I realized that things over time had added a touch of spanish infulence, other areas would have a more french influence that would fade, and blend with other design elements. The gardens I saw in savannah were mostly in the oldest neighbor hoods, and I dont remember seeing a curved line, or much grass at all, but thats becasue in a small walled city garden, you have to work with in the parameters. I also think that its wise to look at the patterns of light and how you use the space for a while befor you fill in.(Hence avoiding the great "Leaf in the rock etc...Debacle that is also carped about hear add Nausium) A friend of mine added a lovely magnolia that would eventually get huge, as well as a pergola over a long walk with roses, in her fedral style garden, several years after she started it, partially because she was sure they would really work there, and partially because she got the ideas for more layers as the plan matured and progressed. I wonder sometimes if some people here like to "Get it all done" and then what? My garden is allways changing and evolving, as hopefully I am. Again, its not important what I think or I wouldd do as long as the owner is thrilled, realistic about his time and the help he will need, and keeps growing along with the garden.

It is absolutely gorgeous!!

Hard for me to believe the criticism???

Let's see YOUR gardens!!

Cathy

Thank you Cathy, I agree!

It is lovely. And considering the limitations on plants - can't use spanish moss, bouganvillia, gardenias, crape myrtles - the limitations on atmosphere - no constant haze from Southern humidity - and the lack of Southern critters - where are the possums and hills of fire ants? - it has a Southern look. I think you did a wonderful job creating what you wanted. I hope you enjoy it for years and years and years.

Wow! Looks like the grass isn't the only thing that's green on this thread.

I'm not a garden snob- though I do have a BLA from a highly regarded Landscape Architecture program. I think it looks fine. There is room for all different landscape styles and designs. It's all about individual taste. There isn't just one 'right' way to design and I'm not arrogant enough to say that my style is the only style or right style.

I love the freeform and curving lines. The brick is very much in the Southern style. Ignore the critics. You've got some saying it isn't 'southern' enough and others complaining because you didn't use all native plants. It looks beautiful and with crisp, clean well maintained edges. My dh would love it because that's his style. I'm a little more wild and freeform so our yard has to be a compromise with both our tastes. You can always add more flowers etc. to the beds someday if you choose.

Your garden has great 'bones' which is the big thing missing in most landscapes these days. Without a good bone structure, the clothes (flowers and smaller plants) will never 'hang' right- never look quite good enough. Be proud of it, it's pretty.

I will admit that the quality of the recent round of photos is very impressive. One of these days I will have to figure out how to actually use a camera. Will your landscape be used to take outdoor portraits? If so that could see where that would influence some of your design decisions.

- Brent

I think it's wonderful!
Having lived in MI for awhile, I was wondering if you have azaleas on the wooded edges? What a spactacular sight and blend between the 2 that would be. Ohooo.
I have to admit, I'm envious. Finished and ready to be enjoyed!!!

Heather

Wow! Tons 'o critiquing in this thread. In reaction to my own earliest landscaping, which gave my "master gardener" mother fits, she used to say.."If you like it, it's good."

The owner is happy ... his family must be happy about the changes... the landscapper is happy ... the garden service people are happy....his neighbors or people who drive by are probably happy ... isn't that all that matters?

I love looking at other people's gardens and see a lot in here to admire. I love look of your front gardens... the trees pruned tall, the variety of hosta and azaela. It's very inviting, cool and peaceful and a nice contrast to the back.

Molie

If everyone is happy then there is no point in posting it here Molie. The usefulness of a thread such as this and the critique offered is for others than the brave OP, others who may learn something in the process. royonjic seems to have appreciated it in this way. I have a question: when we design a space do we view it as a series of vignettes, as demonstrated in the photographic collage above or do we see it as a homegenous whole?

I understand your points clearly and apologize for appearing harsh. Also, good question, above.

My response to inkognito's question would be that I personally view landscaping as a homegenous whole...like a painting. Both make a statement... present a view or imagine that the artist has in mind. I first look at the "whole".... painting or landscape. But then as my eyes wander over the canvass/yard, I begin to notice individual sections (in the landscape or on the canvass) that work wonderfully as a small unit. Sometimes I might not like the whole, but I enjoy parts of it.

I also think that landscape design is the "harder" of the two because there's less control. Mother Nature plays her hand. Plants grow the way the gardener might not have expected. And to go around to your main point... that's where advice comes in. Sorry if I offened anyone.

Molie

http://www.ancientsurfaces.com/Antique-Pool-Fountains.html

It doesn't look Southern at all because of the asymmetry and curves. Southern styles usually have more of a purpose and a geometry. The work looks very well done. Perhaps a stunning fountain instead of the one with landscaping block would elevate it a bit.