Oh i completely forgot to add along the back door wall:

Choisya Sundance and Daphne Odora.

I must have thrown away the tags for those. Drat.

It's a little difficult to tell, but it looks as if most of your shrubs are MUCH too close to the foundation. Give them at least 4 feet from the foundation.

Ah, laceyvail, it's funny you mention that! I was so aware of that issue, and i did originally measure out four feet. Stepped back, looked from every angle, and thought, "Gads, that looks so odd, as if those plants are just hanging out waiting for a bus in the middle of the bed!"

So i shoved them a little closer. And then just a little closer. Right now, they're about 2 1/2 feet away.

Shoot. My callouses are still fresh! Can i move them next year? :)

I have a property entirely different from the scale that most people on this forum must have - four feet is the maximum bed width I have in any case, including at the foundation. So my plants are very tight against house wall and so on. So are most in my neighbourhood, where we all live like this.

It works visually because we all have small properties and because the density of plants against the house walls is often repeated all over the property. There are no four foot gaps anywhere on the property (in some cases), so a four foot distance to the wall would look bizarre - very good bus analogy! And most of us who plant like this also prune a lot. We may also be tying plants (I know I am) to keep them from reaching out for the sun.

On a larger property such as it looks like yours is, the whole scale issue plays out differently. It is perhaps related to plant density. Your plants should perhaps be no closer to the house than they are to each other? Not sure what the principle is.

In your place I would observe the whole layout from a distance (to relate the whole layout to house and property)and also see how the plants grow. If they develop evenly then they are out far enough to be getting some light from all sides. And if their estimated ten year girth isn't eight feet, then maybe you've got plenty of room.

KarinL

~~ nods, trying to reconcile the options ~~

Well, i think what i'm inclined to do is leave them where they are for at least a year and see how they do. I have so much more to plant, and it's quite telling that today is the first day of summer because the spring has entirely gotten away from me!

Thanks for impressions, guys ... keep the feedback coming! I'm learning ... :)

Cheers!

I think i might be having a thought! (Call the papers.)

What if i moved the second choisya from the left to the front and center of the two daphnes, creating a more fluid looking arch? Maybe that linear approach wasn't the most inspired way to go. And i can put a potted vine or something in the back to fill out the space?

~~ may be grasping at straws so as to move as little as possible this year ~~

And a potted vine there would give a bit of height as well ...

Hmmmm

~~ tapping on my chin contemplatively ~~

Hi,
I notice you have a bunch of trees there in pots.....any possiblity of any of those going in this area??? You really need some height here for the scale of your home, maybe about 4 feet from your downspout on the corner, towards the front of your house and it would also soften the edges of your house. Usually with two story homes, you need a lot of height to get the right balance. Could you post a pic of the house from the front? I love your big rocks, these look great with the scale of your home, so you need plants with the same scale.

Brat

Hello Brat! And thank you for your thoughts ...

First off, your point about that corner is keen. I haven't firmly identified what should be planted there, thus the blank space. I'm a bit scared to plant trees so close to the house, cause of gutter maintenance and possible roof damage. I may be overly paranoid in this regard ...

The trees your seeing are fruit trees (apples, cherries, an italian prune, plums, apricots and figs). The plan is for all save the figs to be planted in two rows in the field that directly opposes the bed you commented on (see photograph). It's all southern exposure, so fruit trees and a raised veggie bed closer to the rocks seemed a nice use of the space. They're all semi-dwarf, and i thought to plant them 15 feet apart pretty much in front of the pine rows that were planted to block the road.

I'd include a photograph of the front of the house as you requested, but i haven't mowed and i'm embarrassed. :)

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KarinL, over and over, i've been thinking about the points you made, specifically, "most of us who plant like this also prune a lot." I remembered reading that choiysa's enjoy a good pruning, and lo and behold, this memory was confirmed with minimal on-line reserch. So that process will help control the size and be appreciated by the plants to boot!

Having said that, i am going to move them around a bit. As you suggested, i also stepped back from the greatest distance in the yard, the spot where the fruit trees will go, and looked up at the house. Suddenly, the "scale" i was working with became a little clearer.

Thanks again for your insights everyone ...

Have a great weekend!

Sounds more like you're going to have a great weekend - and maybe a few more callouses!

I think you might really enjoy some older threads on this forum. We've talked a lot about things like grouping plants rather than lining them up, about foliage contrast, multi-season interest, plant form, focal points, and scale, unity, balance, and so on. Also, we've talked a lot about foundation planting and how the house and foundation planting are also seen in the context of the whole property - so, for example, though you see a need for height, that height doesn't have to be right at the house (where it will clog up eaves - that's not being paranoid) but can frame the house much more effectively when set further away. The Renegade Gardener site and the other site linked on Swanoir's thread (below) are good but you may enjoy seeing other people's situations. It's a lot of reading, but as Brent wrote on JuJuThomas's concurrent thread: "If you want a nice garden now, hire a professional. If you want to learn how to create your own special garden then welcome aboard!"

KarinL

PS I have been spending the last three days humming Joni Mitchell because of your screen name... not a hardship, really, mind you!

Here is a link that might be useful: Basic Principles

Hi,
I meant a picture of your house from the front view LOL. I'm sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. Your views are awesome though.No, I don't think you would want a fruit tree there. Maybe a Japanese maple?? They are slow growers and some don't get very big at all. Or some other smaller ornamental tree.

Brat

KarinL, that's where it came from! Are you a "Lady of the Canyon" too? :)

Brat (you don't seem the least bit bratty, by the way), i'm mowing today, so i'll add a front view once all the lawn weeds are at the same level. :)

I'd suggest that the Choisya 'Sundance' should be planted more like 6 to 8 feet apart, and even then they will be touching and form one mass after 3 years. This shrub wants to get 6 to 8 feet across by tall, and it requires alot of pruning otherwise. You've got the room, so plant for maturity rather than initial size. I'd also suggest you look up mature sizes of all your planting choices, and space appropriately. If it were me, I'd move them now, rather than a year from now. If you can't stand all that bare space between plants, use fast growing annuals or perennials for temporary filler until your shrubs grow in.

Lovely property that would look great with Japanese maples as the smaller trees for the yard. I'd definitely get some taller ones too. I'd definitely look at Zelkova and Chinese pistache. Here in NC, I love the willow oaks for shade and fine texture. Not sure if you want that much shade if you are putting in fruit trees. But I'd put the Jap maples (the lower kind that makes humps instead of trees, LOL) so that the foliage spills down the hill artistically.

Nice property.

Certainly not the one that is "pouring music down the canyon" - I had to stop singing to my kids when they developed an ear!

:-)

Good luck with that planting. For some eye candy and thought-provoking pictures (and text), you might enjoy Gardening with Conifers by Adrian Bloom.

KarinL

Estreya, Lol, my name is Brat because I'm the youngest of 5 and they all said I was a brat, my dad said "She was a brat, but she would help me in the garden". I was the only one who wanted to help it was too much like work to the others. My dad passed away in 2002, so it's kinda a tribute to him....my boyfriends nic name for me is Brat, after he heard the story.

Brat

One other idea. You left some nice spaces between those rocks, so now you can tuck some dirt in there and add some alpine plants to the cracks so they can cascade down the rocks.

(I don't hear any music ... )

That's a terrific idea, laurabs! Currently, i've been plugging the top with lithodora, hoping it will one day fill in to create beautiful drifts over each section of the retaining wall.

KarinL, thank you for the referral! I just put some "shade" plants on the northern side of the house, and realized they get a lot more sun than i thought they would. So i thought to plant conifers among them to inhibit the light a bit. That book should be very helpful.

Brat (that's got to be one of the most charming yet oddest "terms of endearement" i've ever heard!), here are photographs of the front. Mind you, the builder put in two totally uninspired squares of grass on both sides of the drive (I mean square, with corners sharp enough to pick your teeth with!), and two teensy planting beds at the entrance containing shrubbery i never would have chosen. So i'm slowly expanding and customizing the front, and fully recognize it needs a LOT of work.

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This is the rear, which has been "separated" into three tiers, the top of which is secured (knock wood) by retaining walls:

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I'll get some steps put in eventually.

And this is where the fruit trees are going:

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To that's it! The eternal work-in-progress. :)

Thank you again for your feedback everyone.

I've done something wrong. Those pictures posted in mini-marshmallow size! Oh well ... you get the gist ....

I'm not certain what i did wrong in the prior post, but here are hopefully larger versions of the pictures:

FRONT
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BACK
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SIDE WHERE FRUIT TREES ARE GOING
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Geez. I was really confused, because I thought the 1st pics were the front of your house, now I realize they are the back. LOL, no wonder I confused you ;) The front looks great I think. Wow, what a large area you have to work with. After you get your fruit trees in, you may have enough height to balance it all out.

Brat

Thank you, Brat! And in that area where there's a separation in the retaining wall, i'd like to eventually have stone steps put in that will be flanked by two nut trees. I think it was KarinL who said something about overall scale and achieving height without it having to be so close to the house. I'm hoping the cumulative effect of filling in the field and nudging a little height near the top tier will sort of balance things.

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Although i should probably post this concern under a new thread, it's somewhat consistent with the thrust of this one. I'm worried that the hole i made for a new stewartia pseudocamellia (center, left, where i originally thought a crabapple would be)wasn't deep enough. I made it about twice as wide as the root ball, and left about five or maybe six inches of nice amended soil beneath it. But i just read these are persnickety and don't really take well to being transplanted! So now, i'm questioning my approach. Did i dig deep enough?

>I made it about twice as wide as the root ball, and left about five or maybe six inches of nice amended soil beneath it

Here is a link that might be useful: Horticultural Techniques For Successful Plant Establishment

Thank you, bboy. I'll check it out. The tree's been in the ground for two weeks now, and it seems to be suffering not at all (knock wood)! So i suppose i couldn't have gone too terribly wrong ...

After pondering this a little further, I have decided I do like your turquoise stepping stones :-) but that I do not get putting a grove of fruit trees so close to the house when you have this much property to work with. I don't think it'll look good, I think it'll create problems near the deck (bees, flies on fallen fruit, etc), and decoratively, not enough height to frame the house and conversely too tall so close to the house, and not height where you need it to offset plain walls. Why not make a nice orchard a little ways out?

KarinL

Oh my gosh. KarinL, you are so adorable! Let me explain ... those "turquoise stepping stones" will soon be buried under mulch. I just didn't have enough to cover them when the bed was initially shaped. They're actually (gasp) caps to the septic tank! Isn't that gruesome? I can see your confusion - unburied as they are, they surely do look like an intensional design feature. :)

As for the fruit trees, they're still in their temporary pots, waiting to be planted out in the field, just as you advised. I have them by the hose now for ease of watering. Near the deck, i have planted only roses, because they seem to need such coddling, and i enjoy the fragrances that waft through the windows and into the kitchen and breakfast nook ...

Probably the closest fruit trees to the house will be the figs, and they're still quite a distance from the structure (maybe 60 feet or so?). I think they're supposed to be 20 feet tall or some such, so that should work ...

~~ trying to sound more confident than i actually am ~~

I do thank you for your continued thoughts ... trying to plan a garden when you don't really know anything is like landing a plane when you've never flown before. These little tips and words of guidance are like lights on the runway, and really do help me more than you can know ...

estreya

Estreya-

I am just wondering about planting over a septic tank. You might want to do a little research about that before you become too enthusiastic about planting. Or maybe someone will comment about that issue in your thread.

Misslucinda, it's an excellent question, and one that actually did occur to me as i was sketching things out. The woman at the nursery told me rose roots are pretty shallow and wouldn't dig vertically into the top of the concrete tank. So there should be no cause for concern (or so she said). But now that you've mentioned it again, i'm once again concerned! :)

Part of the frustration of this process has been to sort of synthesize everyone's feedback, much of which can be contradictory. So far, though, the joys have TOTALLY eclipsed the frustrations, and the learning of it has been very satisfying.

I think i'll post something on the rose thread about root depth and spread. Thank you for bringing this up ... i hope i don't have to move them, but that notion is certainly more preferable than having some long-term conflict with the tank ...

On the off chance that anyone following this thread wants to see any responses from the rose forum, here's the link:

http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/rosesorg/msg071835129307.html?1

There were some very helpful responses on the main rose forum here if anyone is interested in them:

http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/roses/msg0719235017308.html?5