It's going to look very nice with the rock edge but should be on grass side also. Can DH mix up cement? My dad used rock to edge their planting beds in front of house. You mow right up to rocks. Way it works is to "set" bottom row in cement with a mowing edge about 4 in. of smooth cement going past rocks into lawn. Wheel of mower can go on that. I think rock on both sides of path is only way to go, anything else would look out of place. Advantage of the cement edge there is mower goes over it, grass doesn't get into path which looks like gravel with solid pieces, & mower won't knock the rocks around so you have to go back & straighten them "back in place". Dad did his yard 40 yrs ago & it looks as good as if it was just done. Occasionally you might have to snip off piece of grass that insists on laying flat but when I've done their lawn I just run weed whacker along & get rid of those. My folks are getting up in age 87 & 93 so it is a blessing not to have to struggle with a mess from all lose rocks. You will just be putting the base in cement setting the bottom row in it while wet then just do as you have rest of it. It is going to be lovely, I love a huge porch like that, suggests some lazy afternoons in summer sipping iced tea & talking with friends. The rock along the foundation is wonderful idea, hate it when there is nothing & I walk up & can smell animals that have been under there- ugh!! I have very sensitive nose! Any opening under house should be screened off or done creatively as you did! Enjoy!!

I do have to get it off my chest that those are junipers, not cypresses! Whew, there, that's done.

I'm posting a link below to the conversation about your question on the Home Decorating forum, mainly to spare any repetition.

This is an interesting question; I think the most rational approach may be to plant nothing on the outside of the path, and have no lights there either. The grass should grow over the plastic edge and hold the soil for the most part. That makes easy mowing and it's attractive enough.

I guess what is not clear for me is why you want to do anything on the outside of the path. If you want growing space then by all means go for it, but I don't see any design reason for having a bed there; your beds in front of the house are casual and asymmetrical to the extent that they don't scream to be balanced or unified by another bed.

But I would not edge with more of the rock. The rocks are a crummy edge for mowing, no two ways about it. You mentioned a trenched edge - but that's a job that requires maintenance. Sunny is right that concrete would work; I personally don't like doing something that hard to reverse, so would prefer a brick.

I'd also be inclined to try to fix that problem with the drainage in the front yard. Or even if you don't... why exactly does it preclude planting trees?

The other thing I'm sorry I'm not clear on - why would nothing tall grow near those boulders? Is there no dirt underground? You should still be able to find something that will give you some height or volume if you want it.

KarinL

Here is a link that might be useful: Answers on Home Dec forum

I posted here hoping to avoid the recommendations about shutters, railings, etc. going on over on HD - I just want to get the path/lawn edge figured out for now. Any ideas about what plants for beds or rest of lawn would be appreciated too - I'm trying to concentrate on one thing at a time.

The nursery sold these plants as "carpet cypress" and there aren't any berries, not prickly, so I didn't recognize it as juniper. Anyway, they spread well, but stay low. I'm looking for more height somewhere, DH says he doesn't want a tree right up against the house (though a Japanese cutleaf maple like our old house grows slowly, I'm looking at 3ft tall, not 30 ft). The perforated pipe running from the downspout by the garage goes in front of the steps, then through the bed/in front of the boulders and down the slope. It is only an inch or so under the soil right near the downspout, gets deeper on other end of porch and then shallower (some fabric even exposed) where it really drops off. I assumed anything with deep roots would eventually clog the pipe (even though it's wrapped in fabric) if we planted by the downspout - hopefully the azalea with the front of the pot cut out won't spread around back, the pipe runs behind the azalea and between front boxwood and rosebush on that end of the porch. We put the pipe in for the downspout so it wouldn't spill into the flowerbed, it just happens to "fix" the drainage problem by the stairs caused by the builder putting in porch steps before final grade. Once these steps rot out, we can put in stone steps and raise the path to the level of the lawn/beds if we want to but with the pipe and the gravel there it drains fine. The pipe will have to stay for the downspout either way.

I also am looking for something to grow over the boulders to hide them but wanted color and some height, not just ground cover. The boulders are just stacked on top of each other, then any fill/subsoil that filtered between when it was dumped on the lawn is what there is. The boulders were placed close to the forms to allow the truck to get close enough to pour the foundation and slab instead of having to pump. There is very little topsoil on the lawn (b/c of porch already being built, didn't want to bury the bottom step), you can see I've been throwing shovelfuls on top of the flattish boulder behind the rosebush and daisies trying to create a planting area (I can terrace with smaller rocks to build it up a bit more), but there is app. 2" deep by 2ft x 1ft area there that is the *only* area with dirt - the rest is solid rock, with gaps between the rocks. Again, I can fill between but there is overhang so can't plant anything that grows straight up there. At the very end of the porch under the railing (still open - we're going to have to put chicken wire there) we did put maybe a foot of dirt on top of the boulders and I planted some lilacs - maybe one will make it. Thanks for suggestions!

Why not ramp your path up to the first step which will avoid your drainage and erosion issues? Don't solve one problem by making others.

To keep soil out of your recessed walkway will be a chore, as in time the current rock pathway will silt in and start to be a weeding chore as well.

A raised walkway will also allow for a raised grade throughout your lawn and more topsoil. Think about how one design change will allow other functions/choices to be improved as well.

Right now, the walk strikes me as an off-kilter architectural element. Putting a bed on the outside would turn it into a garden element, and the angle would be more in keeping with its surroundings.

I agree with Isabella that it seems a strange set of priorities that keeping a couple of cheap wooden steps trumps the entire rest of the front yard.

Which way does the house face? If it faces either west or southwest, you'll want serious shade trees somewhere, which will have an effect on the rest of the plantings.

Seriously consider lighting the walk with baby spots mounted underneath the porch roof. Solar lights are pretty much useless in our winters, and ground mounted lights can get snowed under unless they come up high enough to be a design element in their own right.

Thanks for the suggestions. As I said, the pipe is there for the downspout, it was not put there to drain the low spot in front of the steps but it worked to our advantage, allowing us the option to keep the rise from the path to the first tread the same. I did consider bringing the path (at least the stepping stones) to the height of the first tread (it would have meant less digging), but DH didn't want to bury the stringer and make it rot out faster. Putting in stone steps is not affordable option right now, we've got other things to finish on the house and I just wanted a path to the steps rather than walking through grass/mud or nonlevel stepping stones. BTW, we have landscape fabric under the gravel.

So, if I do a planting bed along the outside curve, what would you suggest for edging on the path side - leave the plastic? What about on the lawn side? What plants do you suggest (it is a western exposure)? We do have pretty tall trees off the edge of the lawn, and I'm planting more (pine and laurel) closer to the edge to hide the service road that runs on the other side of the dropoff. Thanks.

Tall trees to west

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Southwest
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Service road (where all the ferns are) that runs down from the driveway on the other side of the transformer.

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OK, my mistake, they'll be Microbiota decussata then. A lovely plant, is already showing the cool winter colour it gets, and yes, they spread! I've never heard them called cypress before.

I think I can see how I would shape a bed on the outside of the path. I would actually make it an extension of the bed to the right of the stairs. I wouldn't bring that outside line of stone edging back to the walk at all near the stairs, but extend it along the path (at whatever width you want the bed to be) and end at the driveway. You should be able to draw a line that would nicely compliment the curve of the walkway. I agree with Sunny that rock on the path side is probably best too.

For the mowing, the options are to put wood, brick, or concrete along the base of the stone, or use a string trimmer, or even a trenched edge along the base of the stone.

I'll have to think about plant selection - but likely someone who knows your zone will do better at that.

KarinL

Thanks karin - yes, Siberian carpet cypress. You can see how much they've grown since April 2008, the nursery picked the right thing when I told them we had lots of sun and a steep slope.
(The buried pipe lies just about where the hose is in this pic)

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14 months later they're almost merging

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I would like to put more in the path bed if I'm going to join it with the bed that's running down the slope, but am a little afraid of the spreading habit. DH can cut it if it starts growing into the lawn (I was thinking of putting plastic at the edge of the existing bed and hiding it with stone), but I don't know how far the roots would spread into the lawn - I guess we'd have to run plastic edging the whole length of the (combined) bed? Plus I'd like some annuals - maybe bury some pots and just swap out the contents seasonally? Would it look too strange to just repeat the boxwood there and not the cypress?

I think we're going to lose the lights entirely - we're going to put the front garage coach lights on a motion sensor, that one in the corner by the downspout should be plenty (esp. with the stone wall border, light colored gravel and stepping stones) to show where the path is. Not that we'd be be likely to have unexpected company after dark, if we have the front door lights on there's plenty of light to see by. *We* tend to use the garage (front or back door) as our entrance even if we're parking in the driveway. DH says the path lights "don't do anything, they're just for decoration." I only bought them to mark some sort of path across the lawn to the steps, had them on both sides so people wouldn't walk on the plants. We're on a flight path, planes fly low, we used to joke that they'd mistake it for runway so I'm glad to get rid of them or repurpose them to "accent" lights in the beds.

It's a common misconception that weed barrier will stop all pathway weeding issues. Weeds will not come up from beneath the fabric, as the fabric will stop that, but as noted weeds can grow in the rocks if enough debris accumulates in it. In this case the weeds are growing above the weedblock fabric, and the good news is that these will be easy to pull out or nuke with spraying.

The microbiota are great plants in the spring and summer, but as you have seen already they can bronze in the winter, but it does seem to match your house colors. I would group the boxwoods that you have into drifts, as the string of them currently is just a series of dots across the planting bed, which doesn't do much for the area and is distracting. Don't plant the Mon. daisy's just because they are on sale now, but look for some more evergreen flowing species like hellebore and heaths/heathers.

Well, I'll deal with weeds as necessary, we haven't had trouble in the part of the driveway where the gravel (1.25" below, small on top, same as walk) is spread pretty thick. You can see I've got some weeding to do where the lawn grew into the beds before we put in the path (no edging, no fabric in beds).

Would you add *more* boxwood to the 4 I have now, or move 2 of them? When I planted them last year I didn't know how much/fast they grow, plus spent $500 for the 4 boxwoods and 7 cypress so thought that was enough for now. What about more boxwood on the lawn side of the path?

I've already planted the daisies (July), I wanted some height and fall color. If I don't like them I'll pull them out next year - they were grocery store salvage ($1 ea). I've got lots of daffodils planted for spring, Cherish roses and mini roses for summer, plus the one azalea by the garage. The cypress might do a pretty good job of filling in the next year or so, I'm looking for more flowers now. What would you recommend?

Here's a more head-on view of the house though it might be hard to see the plants in the shadows

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One side closer up

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More light but hard to see plants at this angle.

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I'd strongly recommend going to the New England Forum for specific plant recommendations. This forum is more for what overall effect the plant should have instead of specific varieties.

From the last picture it looks like what's needed is foundation plants that provide framing and structure, and from the photos above also to control access, frame views, and block others. What affect are you trying to achieve with plants and stones?

You got it, isabella. I started a stone wall under the porch to fill the gap b/c it's low and I don't like lattice, plus we have tons of stone. I'll wrap it around to keep people out of the planting beds (though maybe with the new path they won't be tempted to just step from driveway onto the corner of the porch). I'd like to hide the low view of the service road, so started planting native evergreens along the edge of the lawn. I'd also like to hide the transformer.

I picked dwarf boxwoods because I don't want a tall hedge to hide the low (less than 2ft high) porch, we want an open welcoming feeling, and I liked the texture/size of the leaves contrasting with the cypress. The cypress were planted on the slope to control erosion, continued up in front (DH threatened to plant grass everywhere unless I bought plants *that day* but I knew the slope was too steep to mow right near the boulders). I like roses - saw one Cherish last summer and bought it, then "rescued" two more from grocery store this summer. The miniature roses and montauk daisies were grocery store rescues too. I also planted daffodils b/c I like them. I have no plan or vision - I have no idea what I'm doing. Just trying to find plants that I like, that like full sun.

I'd appreciate any suggestions, if not on specific plants, then at least putting a plan together. If I can use what I already have (willing to move some things), that would be great since as I said I spent $500 on the evergreens.

From what I have read I gather your vision is not exactly curb appeal but just a nice welcome to my home in the forest clearing. With that in mind I would start a plan on how to enhance the view of the house from the road leading up to the house and once you dismount in the driveway and walk to the front door. Also the view from the porch to some other focal points. With a house in the woods one thing that is valued is some open space to spread out in. I would have in the plan to start my landscape efforts on how the house is viewed from the road leading up to the house. These views can be used to help place smaller trees or shrubs to enhance that view and these can also be sited to channel views from the driveway/walkway to the house as well. With the mass of the garage on the left, some addition mass shoudl be considered on the right as well with its siting taking into consideration the roadway view, blocking views down the crest of the hill, and blocking traffic over the slope as well.

Well I won't offer any plant suggestions as the ones you have and others already suggested are a good start to consider. I do like the idea of heath (full sun plant) as a low growing groundcover. This was suggested in the book Garden Design, as a way to add fine evergreen texture and seasonal color.

Thanks - we've got a big back yard (front yard ended up smaller than planned due to having to move the house when we hit ledge), so that's our "spreading out" space. B/c the driveway (over a certain length is it a "private road" LOL?) climbs to the garage with the low point being to the side of the transformer where the service road splits off), you don't really see any of the current plantings until you're almost *to* the garage. I can't plant anything big right in the corner by the downspout (since we buried the downspout/drainage pipe). What should I do?

We have a young red maple my dad gave us he found growing in his peony, we planted that in back in May but can move it. It will get *huge* though judging by the one near his driveway.

We are also buying a semi-dwarf (M4 or M7) apple tree that we need to find a spot for (buying it for fruit, not decor), so if that would work in the front yard please tell me where. I do have pines and laurel planted along the edge, the apple tree can't go right on the edge (won't be able to prune or pick), but should it go at the bottom of the slope/boulders and we'll just block off (terrace?) the access from the front lawn to the basement door? Or should it go in the "middle" of the lawn? Over near the transformer? I've got no clue, please help!

We could plant it pretty much anywhere on our property (anywhere we can get a hole dug, that is) for fruit, but if it could be used as landscaping (with the pretty blossoms) then that's good too. Thanks

It's really difficult to answer specific micro-landscaping questions without the macro picture, and it's particularly difficult to do it when a lot of decisions have been made already that are suboptimal and now have to be worked around (my sense of you is that you won't take offense to that remark - please don't!).

I've had the feeling with this thread that we've backed into discussing what your landscaping needs are, but maybe now that the big picture is starting to come into play we can make some progress. The last picture you provided finally takes things out to a frame that puts the micro stuff into some context.

I'm going to in fact ignore for a moment the question you originally posted to address some of the things you've brought up in the interim in passing. For example, what should be in that foundation bed? That there is something wrong with those Microbiotas has been nagging at me but I haven't been able to put my finger on why. I think it is that, being flat, they don't actually do anything to anchor the house/connect it to the ground - if you have a flat foundation planting, you do need that height out further in the yard to frame it. Nor do they provide much visual interest for sitting on the porch. I mean, I love them, but I wouldn't want to stare at so many of them up close all summer. For that, I like plants that are alluring up close, great foliage or flowers, and changing as the days and months go by.

I've also got just a patchy understanding of the planting constraints, specifically rocks/drainage in the front yard. First I thought you couldn't plant trees out there, but with the apple question it sounds like you can. If you could give us a plan view of where you can and cannot plant, that might help (and even if you only do it for yourself, that might be a tool that would help you make decisions).

Somewhere on this forum, Laag has posted a list of questions to ask yourself in making a plan, I just can't recall where. And on other old threads you might see some examples of plan views in action. Reading some old discussions might even help you to pinpoint your objectives - sometimes the hardest part.

The other thing that is bugging me - and I know you don't want to hear about the house here! - is that the frameless front porch is a special landscape design challenge. I understand why you have it, I think, but something about it looks unfinished. It is massively improved by just those few flowerpots in the first picture. My tentative thought is that such a porch, with a step-off look, would only look logical with a patio right below it to step off onto - not with a flowerbed. Or have you ever considered making the steps go all the way across the porch, not just the centre?

I also wonder whether all that rock, which I love in theory, is too fragmented a material to use to anchor such a big house. That impression might go away when you finish the walls as planned and some macro lines emerge.

In aggregate, I think that if I were to sketch a plan for your front yard based on what you've told us, I would
(a) move the Microbiotas to cover the slope that you see as you drive up, so that they are seen somewhat from above and not just from the side, augmented by the boxwoods somehow,
(b) put a couple of mid-size deciduous trees in the front yard, apple being a fine choice but not a maple (never be constrained by something that you have but didn't really want in the first place), hopefully you'd be able to include one that would shade your southwest corner in time,
(c) make the foundation bed some sort of a walkable flagstone pathway with ground covers and perennials - assuming that in winter it's covered with snow anyway?, and
(d) put something on the porch to edge it, if just those few pots.

Hope that helps, and that others can fill the gaps or errors...

KarinL

I think after looking at the house a number of times that the steps just don't seem to belong. I think 2 steps of either poured concrete with rock edges or concrete with rock top in a nice long rounded ends shape. It's a nice house & needs nice steps large enough to put a large lovely pot with plant at each end & still have plenty of room to walk up the steps. Then the boards under the porch look unpainted,should be same as house or contrasting but don't think you want them to stand out. Could you use those steps in back. They just arn't "enough" to do your house justice. They are OK for now as money is probably tight when so many things to do but leave room to do something later. I think it would be smart to make up a plan & drive around & see what strikes your fancy for trees & shrubs. A place that stands out probably has someone that did a lot of homework & could save you some. How are others along that road doing things? Could be they aren't doing anything!LOL Might have better luck in town finding a lovely landscape that you can take a few elements of for yours, problem with books is they often don't tell the whole story. I got a cute little Cobbitty Daisy that would get 24 in. high that would be nice, it didn't say how broad & it was at least 4 ft across. They sometimes don't mention the mess the tree makes either, flowers(fine with me) then seeds & dropping leaves all yr long(Magnolia trees) I finally took it out. I don't care to pick up leaves 12 mos. of the yr. They sell a lot of bougainvillea out here, well, it's great if you have acre or 2 but a normal size lot out here is 150 x 60 so they are impossible to control & you control them & you have no blooms & thorns in your fingers. So people buy, put up with & pull out when it gets too much. Talk to people with nice landscaping & see what they like & don't like & what works you them.

DH said no to the apple tree. It *could* have gone at the bottom of the slope (not good for it in frost pocket), or about halfway up but would have to be 3+ft from where the cypress is. The cypress are there to hold the slope in, I just continued them across the front. They're not the prettiest things either. But I don't want to have evergreens higher than the porch deck (about 21"). The steps are 8 ft wide, 11" run, 7" rise. the whole porch is 48 ft long (20 on each side of steps) x 7 ft deep.

The non-railing look is very big here. Not sure what people have for plantings - but I haven't seen patios.

Yes, there are a lot of "work arounds" in this house - you should see the inside! We'll eventually get things straightened out, but adding more fill isn't in the picture. We can't fill the front lawn over the level of the driveway, and in order to level out that slope we'd have to bring in a ton (or more LOL) of fill and terrace it b/c our walkout basement door is on the gable end, land knid of comes to a "V" with the door at the point.