Sad indeed. I guess they don't need to give an explanation as to why. Such inspiration will be missed but we can still check out their site. The powers that be need to reconsider.
Paws

I absolutely agree. It's not like they dropped in to hawk their wares or weasel a free ad for themselves. From what I saw they had a genuine shared interest in what we do here and only acted as resposible contributors. We routinely share the names & links of many businesses and companies who can help us acheive our many goals, why should they be any different? If anyone who is "in business" is banned then who's gonna' be left besides pre-schoolers, retirees and politicians?

L & L have been generous contributors and my advice to them would be to use their incredible imaginations, come up with a new forum name that is innocuous yet all of us will know it is them, then they can keep on participating, should they even want to after the shameful treatment they have received.

There is no reason they should share their secrets. It is brilliant that they don't. Their incredible designs inspire us all to kick our creativity into high gear and give us a level of quality to which I, for one, continually aspire. Someone inspired them - and they inspire us! The creative beat evolves and goes on. Thanks L & L!

Nothing gets my creative juices flowing more than seeing some incredible piece and wondering "how'd they DO that?"

A

Distressed is a good word, I might think of something stronger, It is 'distressing' that garden web can boot someone off for giving their openhouse hours, but insert insidious ads into our messages. That is really more than 'distressing'

They were banned???? That's ridiculous!

I would like to say that although their works are pricey, they have good investment potential. Because they've influenced other artists, their pieces stand to appreciate in value more than most others of similar kind. They do excellent, original work. I particularly like their use of intense color in the garden.

Their garden is beautifully arranged as well. When I visited, by appointment, they were very generous with their time and information about their plants.

It's sad that some people think that unless other people are divulging their hard-won methods to the world, they aren't worth keeping around.

I've been collecting photos of art for 35 years, from magazines, catalogs, newspaper articles, etc. There are no instructions on how to copy them, and sometimes, no indication even what material they're made from. Some of them can fit on a fingertip, others would need a flatbed semi & a crane to put them in place. I collect them not to copy, but to inspire. Sometimes it's just the color, sometimes a shape, sometimes a thought or idea.

Sometimes I've wondered if something could be done, but how? And even years later, I see that someone HAS done it. So I know that it CAN be done. And if I'm smart enough, maybe I can use their idea or method to build on.

After all, Buckminster Fuller didn't invent the triangle, did he? But look what he did with it!

'Tis a pity that petty minds keep getting in the way of greatness.

Sue

I agree with all of the above. What a shame. This forum has lost a great deal of inspiration because of it. Thank you L&L for all you have shared. I'm sorry to see you go. I too hope Garden Web will reconsider. Thanks again L&L.

Amy

I think Garden Web should take a poll on what the people who post here think about L&L being banned from this website. I am sure the majority would like to have them stay. I didn't expect them to share any secrets or give advice, it was just nice having them on here.

Jean in Missouri

for your kind words and support. Everytime I tried to reply I am sent out to the netherlands or should I say "disneylands".....It won't be long before I am found out again... perhaps if I "behave" myself I won't be banned....but anyways I wanted to let you know I appreciate your support and your understanding of why we are relunctant to share some of our proprietary techniques.....and I do follow this forum... you all seem to be having a great time....

Bainbridgeartist
Perhaps you could take out a small ad to help repay Gardenweb for all the free advertizing you have received.
There are probably fifty thousand garden related businesses that would love free advertizing here.
There wouldn't be much left of Garden web if they all were allowed to post their hours of operations.:)
It costs a great deal of money to operate this forom.

You actually got off easy.
The rules state that Gardenweb could block all mention of your business and disallow any links to your website.

BTW can I post my hours of operation on your website or at one of your open houses.
I would appreciate it.:)

This seems a bit over the top. We all know spam when we see it and I never saw anything from L&L that looked liked spam. Having them participate in this forum was a treat for all tufaneers and we ought to collectively protest their exclusion.

frogjelly-
The smiley faces don't really make sarcastic remarks funny.

Re: Little and Lewis - How could it be construed as advertising to share your work (and the hours it can be seen and photographed) with a group of folks who join here to discuss and share ideas related to their common goal of making hypertufa items themselves. Granted, I haven't been a member for that long, but I keep up with this forum and I don't recall anyone discussing the purchase they made from L&L, but I can recall several occasions where folks have mentioned their admiration of L&L's work.

And I gotta say, if anything on this forum inspires me to get off my bottom and mix up some hypertufa, it would be the photos posted from the L&L Open House. I've had the photos open in a screen since they were posted. Beautiful!

Bainbridgeartist, Sure glad you follow this forum. Yes, we do have a great time. there are professionals amoung us, who specialize in different aspects of the craft. Some have even mentioned where their work can be seen,Some local some not. What is special is that we share a passion.It is for this reason we congregate at this site. I surely hope you continue to share that passion with us, in what ever way you can. BTW have you read "The Art Spirit" Robert Henri? He was a painter, and a teacher,but he expresses what we experience in our craft, a true spirit. I see it in your work. Thank you for that.

Give me a break....I hardly call ourselves promoting L and L business on this forum....I joined because I was curious about all those that are working in a similar medium and what you all were saying about us.......one can look at our open houses as a chance for people like yourself to come and see what other's who have become successful working in concrete are doing....I don't usually respond to negative posts on this forum but yours seems both petty and out of touch.....

Bainbridge, Disregard frogjelly, he just registered under that name so he could make those remarks. It looks like the same person that's been causing problems. He's brand new to hypertufa and gives advice on almost every thread.
I don't understand why posting your hours for an open house is banned. We have your web site and have admired it for years. If you see any more negative comments, it's just a jealous person and feel sorry for them. Billie

Of course this is another attack on me.
I wasn't here last year. Read the link.

L&L are very smug about all their advertizing being word of mouth. It bothers them not at all that GardenWeb is paying the bill. I hope links to their website are blocked by Spike. They deserve it. They could support Gardenweb by placing an ad or two but they choose instead to post against the rules in these threads.

Here is a link that might be useful: LAST YEAR

This forum is about discussion,not dissention.This thread,which I started,was to mourn not only the quick access to other quality artists,but also to decry the censorship that appears to be in place.I would agree that if someone were to post a blatant ad for their business,bounce them,make them pay.But,this is simply not the case with the L&L Gardenweb involvement.And,by the responses given here by the MAJORITY of people answering this thread,I don't stand alone.
As I said,tho,discussion not dissention.Let's move on.We're all crafters here,be we pros or rookies.Lets play nice and get back into the mud!!

Please David! YOU are posting against the rules by simply having more than one posting ID.

DavidCDN
tufaenough
davidmcdn

And those are only the ones we know about!

Rick the problem with Little and Lewis is they consider actually paying for advertising beneath them.
Their open houses are their bread and butter.
That is how the advertise and promote their business.
That is why their pictures were removed from this forum last year.
Little and Lewis are basically thumbing their nose at Gardenweb.
I can't even imagine working as hard a Spike did to make this forum what it is today. Other businesses should respect that and PAY for their time here like all the advertisers we see around the edge of our screens. I'm sure they would all love to get a bit the free advertising Little and Lewis get here but you don't see them posting in these groups in blatant disregard for the rules.

Like I said,let's move on....

It's sad that people don't understand how much money it costs to keep this forum what it is.
The same people who support Little and Lewis advertising for free, are some of the same one's trying to block out the advertisers who actually pay the bills to keep Gardenweb the great place it is for garden lovers to world over.
My last comment on this sad state of affairs.

Here is a link that might be useful: Blocking gardenweb advertisers

It's also sad that "some people" think the rules only apply to others.
Posting under multiple names,
posting pics that don't belong to you;
also against the rules.

That makes "some people" hypocrites.

OK kids, settle down, seems as if we have strayed from the real reason for this thread , which was NOT intended for finger pointing and name calling ...... scheesh !

We miss knowing that L&L are around to pop in once in a while -or- just lurk (lurking is good sometimes).
I just got a notice from amazon about their book. You should see dat gunnera leaf of theirs.

Yep - why can't we all just get along???? Sorry to see there are so many cockleburrs - but why should I be surprised???

Billie - like you - I took a look at Frogjelly's signup date - and said "it figures".

I may have already planted a Gunnera before I joined GW - that is why it is nearly 8 ft tall this year - but you gotta know that the 5 concrete leaves that I made 2 years ago came from some Bainbridge inspiration. What fun!!!!!!!!!

Vicki

Rick, You're right, time to move on.........
David, Why would you think that I was referring to you? lol

I'm a little surprised this whole thread hasn't been pulled by the powers that be!

I haven't posted on this forum in a year. I do want to say something about the banning of L&L. here's my 2 cents worth.
I am a 50 yr old grandma who has big ideas and thinks she is 16 again and can go out in the garage and make some pretty big stuff into reality. I like that feeling ( until I actually lift a bag of portland! lol) When I see pictures of L&L's art, I do get inspired and then I believe that the ideas in my head are really possible, and I keep persisting. What would life be like with out our dreams or imagination and inspiration from each other? I shudder to think of life like that.
It is not just about money!! It is all about the communication we get from looking at their work. All art is some form of communication.Think aboutit,a sad painting tells a story. A beautiful cast leaf also says something and is preserved for alot of people to enjoy.I go to an art gallery to look at what the artists are saying in their work and experience something emotional and spiritual.I'm not a buyer. Artists like to know that people enjoy and are affected in someway by their work.Feedback is important, to see the smiles and ooos and ahhhs is an acknolegement of alot of hard work and I think that is what L&L get most out of their open houses.Yes they have to eat like the rest of us,so they sell stuff but that just buys more materials and pays for them to live to create another day.I don't think they need to advertise on this forum to get people to come to see their new things!They don't need us , we need them. Someone else would have brought it up anyway.I'm dissapointed that we won't have the opportunity to see pictures and continue to be inspired on this forum by their art.
Michelle

I totally enjoyed L&L visiting with the GW, and I love the work they do, and I also know that a rule is a rule BUT one time or another each and every one of us "probably broke a rule here. One of the reasons I don't visit here as much as I used to, because most of the people have changed, I used to check in every day for some good clean humor, and no one ever put anyone down, it seemed as though if we didn't have anything good or positive to say, we just didn't say anything at all :-)
How many of the people on this forum pay the dues for the GW, that would help the GW a bunch in itself! By the way I do pay, but I do owe right now,BUT I will pay.
bonnie

Well, I'm the one who posted the link about the open house (and pictures I took) so I suppose I'd better dig my trowel in too

Many of us who visit this site are artists or fledgling artists and feel it's a privelege to have Little and Lewis visit with us and give us dates when their work will be open for viewing. Honestly, I think we're fortunate that they don't view us as nuisances...they know we're not their market. We are (or would like to be) part of their community though, and I hate this dissention. It's ugly and beneath us.

I just finished attending a two-day workshop put on by a wonderful local concrete artist, Lynn Di Nino (am I allowed to mention her name? After all, she does sell her work). I brought in some of the things I'd made, talked about Gardenweb and also talked about Little and Lewis and passed their book around so that others in the class could look at their work. Lynn said very nice things about L&L. That's what professional artists do...they support each other, inspire each other and they build community.

These seem so be dark days on the Hypertufa Forum--I think we're losing our essence. I'm not going to reduce myself to personal attacks but I am asking everyone to really think about what you want this forum to do. Do we want it to support and inspire our higher selves or do we want to denigrate into finger pointing and insistence on rule following? Please be part of the solution.

Deb

Well,I started this thread,so,please,let this be the final word.
Personally,I wish no ill on anyone.Those that agreed with me-thank you.Those that did not,that's your choice.Let's get beyond this and get back to creating what we do best-concrete art.
So,it's late Saturday evening.Everybody,get some rest,then back in the mud.After all,isn't that what we're about...../
Cheers from here

free advertizing, my patootie.

A direct question was asked. "I sure would like to know their 2006 open house dates so that I can plan my vacation accordingly to visit."

I did the same thing summer 2004 - beautiful open house, although I felt like a blushing groupie...Thank you L & L - you're marvelous.

I was astounded and honored when they first posted on our forum. What a wonderful art community! I thought...

Personally, MY goal is to get so good that I am a huge threat to L&L. As IF!! They are generous to the max.

Greed took down ancient Rome and the U.S. is heading down that same path at an alarming rate (fuel, health care, insurance, ad nauseum). Faster every year. I have ex-pat friends all over the world and am truly troubled by what I hear from them regarding what we in the U.S. hear from the media vs what is truly happening. Frightening at BEST!

But this is a creative forum, not a political one. SO, until I can move to the ever-elusive ShangriLa I shall focus my attention on keeping my head above water and my hands in concrete!

The L&L thing is a symptom folks. Pay attention, connect the dots.

Amanda