jethro:

I'm interested but your link doesn't work for me. If you are so inclined you could email them to me thru gardenweb. Others have recently so I think that works.

Worked for me... Looks like all that burning raised the pH sky high.

I'm using firefox.

Frank:

I'm using firefox as well. How do you get that link to work?

its a .pdf file.. i wonder if you need a .pdf reader installed to read it? do you have adobe acrobat or foxit?

Fruitnut; I sent the file to your sbcglobal.net address. It is in PDF format so you will still need something like adobe acrobat reader. I hope it works for you, I sure would like to know your thoughts on it.

So the black soil areas are near pH 8 and the native soil is pH 5, right? Could you mix the areas together? Otherwise I agree on using lime or sulfur as recommended for fruit trees. The area with pH 5 is good for blueberries as is.

Can you refresh our/my memory on your goals for this area? That would help on what you should do.

Right now I have 2 apple trees in the area with the deepest black soil, 1 Asian and 1 European pear in the middle are, and 2 apples and 1 Uro pear in the native soil. These were all just planted this spring. It may just be the nature of the pears but the two in the middle are way out growing everything else.

I already have a few blueberries that came with the property and enough room for as many as I would want elsewhere.

I have the trees spaced out as to be just on my side of the property line and over far enough with out worrying about the overhead utility lines once the trees get bigger.

I have tossed around the Idea of moving the black soil around and tilling it in. I would have to remove the trees and then put back and also getting the equipment to do this at the best time would be an issue. I think in the long run this would probably be the best.

If I just spot treat each tree would treating a 20' by 20' area with the tree being in the center be feasible in getting the results desired. Or would there be a better size or way.

jethro:

Agree that spreading out the black soil and tilling it in would probably be best in the long run. But that sounds expensive and time consuming. Treating the area around each tree would be a good way to go. An area 20 by 20 ft is plenty big enough. You don't need to treat the entire root area. If iron for instance is readily available in one area of the root system that should be adequate.

The other deal is that the trees may do fine just as things are. So you might take a wait and see approach.

I'm not even sure trees would be bothered by that pH range? Seems to me they grow in about any type of soil, but i could be off.

That makes sense that the roots would spread out in to the other areas. In taking the samples I took the them from around the tree areas that I thought were most similar in soil composite. I am pretty sure that I can spot treat them with the recommended amounts in a 20 x 20. My thinking is maybe do this at least until the tress get bigger and the roots get spread out enough to take advantage of the surrounding soil.

5 of the 8 trees are in the at least some of the black soil. 3 are in the native soil. There is an unknown variety of 1 apple and 1 pear that are 30 years old according to the neighbor and these are in line with the 3 trees in the native soil. My concern was that I have found 4 or 5 stumps and my neighbor tells me they were all apple or pear and the previous neighbor cut them down because they were dying .

The neighbor also said he has tried planting a few apple trees different times and the leaves start to curl(leaf hooper,mites or deficiency?) and they usually die in the second year. But he also said that none of the trees he planted put on as much growth as most of the ones I planted have.

I could do nothing and see what happens. I am concerned about one Asian pear that leafed out and did not put on any new growth. This and the two apple which I would say all three are in the deepest black soil have smaller leaves then the rest of the trees. The two apple are putting on growth but the leaves are small. More Nitrogen?

Thank you for all you insight so far. Its hard to believe that when i bought my house and thought I could throw in a couple of apple and pear trees over there could turn into be very overwhelming at times. I had dozens of ideas and a bunch of questions going through my mind. Now I down to only a dozen give or take.

If your trees in the high pH soil aren't showing iron deficiency, you are probably OK there. As those trees root deeper and wider they will have more chance of finding zones of lower pH.

I'd be more concerned with the pH 5 native soil. But a good dose of limestone as per the soil test recommendation should set you up there. Adding the sulfur and limestone in the areas you are sure about, won't be expensive or risky.

Just remember that blueberries like a pH down in the 4.5 - 6.0 range, so they'd be happy in the native soil. Treating the area of the trees does sound like the most cost effective plan.

When is the best time to put down the lime, sulfur and fertilizer? Should I do it now or in the fall? Can the lime and fertilizer or sulfur, Epsom salt and fertilizer be mixed and spread together?

Time of application isn't that important. My concern with mixing everything together is that they might separate in the mix and not be uniformly spread. Guess it depends on how you will spread them, by hand or some kind of spreader.

I got most of what I need yesterday except sulfur. After seeing the differences in the size of the products I would agree that applying them separate would be best. Its supposed to rain pretty good tonight so I am going to try to get this stuff down after work.

Thanks again.

Jethro. I don't know where you are shopping, but I bought a 50 lb bag of sulfur granuals form commercial farm fertilizer business for $17.

The local guy has most of what I need but only sells sulfur products in 5lb bags, mostly for hydrangeas, I think. I need to check a couple of feed mills and an Agway for the sulfur, but they are all over 40 miles from me and I dint get down that way to often.

Also check to see if you have a farmer's co-op. At least around there, they are homeowner friendly and offer a wide range of chemicals, fertilizers and seeds by the pound. (And much cheaper than the big box stores.)