My TangOs were also not as exciting this year. I blame the rain. They were still tasty, just less flavor and more rubber.

In general my excitement on this peach has diminished a bit. Its still the best flat peach overall but the rubberiness, discoloring, etc are dampening my enthusiasm. Another problem I have with all flat peaches are they are the first peach that squirrels take, they are much easier to carry. So, I don't get many of them even in a low squirrel year.

Scott

Like I say, it takes about ten years to at all accurately evaluate a variety, but it would be so boring to wait that long and hold my enthusiasm.

This year, certain white peaches are getting more love from me. With all the sunny days, some I've found boring in the past are so intensely sweet that, even if it is mainly sugar, it excites the taste buds.

I even dissed Manon one day and then a few days later pulled one from the same tree whose higher brix put it into my realm of appreciation.

For you Scott, it may be your higher heat and light intensity makes what I'm experiencing a normal year for your white peaches.

Next year I may try mulching with highly reflective gravel over woven fabric as an experiment. Keep a peach tree open enough to get some of that light back and see how it affects quality.

That rubber flesh scares me...i'll be eating my first very soon... i hope i'm not disappointed! I'm falling in love with Saturn.

It's not really like rubber. More like a mango texture if you let them tree ripen.

"More like a mango texture if you let them tree ripen."

And they are very juicy. Rubber almost implies a certain dryness, but a good TangOs is plenty juicy.

Yes, and even though they are less intense in flavor this year they are still very good. They also hold their texture when cooked better than other peaches.

{{gwi:120363}}

I ate my first TangOs... The only thing i would consider "rubbery" is maybe the skin...to me the skin seems "thick"? The flesh was not rubbery in mine...very smooth. The flavor...not real sure yet... not really a peach..i do agree it is sort of a mango thing going on... very good/plenty sweet. This was on of the damaged ones (hail), so i just picked it..i'll leave the others a few more days.

These 4 are all on the small side...i just picked what was softest...everything still needs a few more days...that is Superior, TangOs, Saturn and Alderman...

Hate to say it...but the Saturn are just awesome... all gone now too :(

This post was edited by franktank232 on Thu, Aug 15, 13 at 21:35

How is the fuzz on Saturn? Are they best eaten soft or while still firm? Why do you say awesome, just the sweetness?

They just have a little spice, a lot of sweet...beautiful texture, flesh isn't overly thick/fuzzy...tiny seeds... kids really liked them...i have Raritan Rose ripe (not pictured...i forgot about it) and the Saturn were better (and the RR are very ripe/soft)....

I do want to eat a few more TangOs to get a better idea of what the flavor is... it is an oddball in the peach world.

I've never had a good donut peach (all the store bought ones i've tried have been rubbery garbage)....so this is all new to me...It really is a peach to home grow.

Saturn has almost no acid and tastes extremely sweet and juicy. To me Tango is a much more interesting peach but my palate is very jaded as this time of the year I'm eating probably a dozen peaches and nectarines a day of different types (not always the whole piece of fruit).

Tango is probably a lot more useful for culinary purposes than Saturn although I've never cooked Saturn but Tango's texture holds up amazingly well after cooking. Saturn isn't firm to begin with and cookers need acid anyway.

But I've heard lots of people raving about Saturn, so it's really a matter of personal taste. As I've gotten older I gravitate more to acid fruits- don't even like eating many Asian pears. Certainly birds, squirrels, coons, bees and brown rot prefer Saturn to just about any other peach I've grown.

Harvest-

There is some flavor in most (all?) white peaches that i taste...like cinnamon or all spice or something... maybe its just me.

I didn't have a single saturn hit with brown rot...nor have i had any pluots have it...so i'm doing good on that front. Brown rot is in the yard, I had an Alderman plum on the ground yesterday covered in it... but that tree has a lot of shade in it, while most of my fruit is exposed to the sun all day.

I think a variety is more important for the home grower then anything else...so a few white peaches, some yellow peaches, some early/some late...nectarines if you can get them to make it through the assault of bugs/disease....donuts if that is your thing... I'll be honest... i'd still probably pick a yellow fleshed nectarine over most of this stuff. I'm adding one or 2 for next season for sure....

I still haven't tasted the Flavor King pluot..so i'm excited about that...it could be a few weeks. Its been very chilly at nite here lately and we've had a lot of fog. I see models are showing a good warm up to around 90F by next week, so hopefully that pushes things along. I still really like the idea of growing a lot of these fruits under plastic, more so to get ripe fruit earlier then Sept...

I'll probably be able to try a few bigger TangOs over the weekend if they soften up a little more...i'll get some more pics/thoughts then.

Frank, you are in completely different weather than me so I don't expect your pest pressure to be the same. A week usually doesn't go by here where we get no rain- 3 weeks and it's officially a drought. Summer days tend to be quite humid with heavy dew most mornings. I don't know if your rain is that consistent or not.

Scott sent me some Flavor Grenade wood and there are 3 fruits on the 2nd year graft- they are all cracked even though they are far from being ripe. This would indicate that they are extremely susceptible to cracking as the site has good eastern exposure.

For Scott it is his most productive pluot, but I'm now doubtful it will be a winner here. In any case, I'll give it another season or two.

Superior Plums
{{gwi:120364}}

Flavor Supreme was very early for me ...

Yes...its been very dry here...since July 1st I have had just over 2 inches of rain in my yard...most of that in just a handful of showers. I'm in the Mississippi River Valley and fog is very common here in the late summer/fall... My grass/vegetation is dripping wet every morning these days, but its also been chilly (50Fs at night)... a warm shot is coming and its going to get toasty. The weather has worked out great for the plums...

Superior plum is fantastic this year. Probably ate about a dozen now and they are right up there with the rest of the good stonefruit. Beautiful coloring on them with all this sun.

Tangos
{{gwi:120365}}

You've also got small open trees next to asphalt. No wonder rots are not an issue with you. My trees look nothing like yours- and are a green riot of leafy vigor. Yours are much like espaliers with the pots keeping their roots "pruned" and the trees docile.

The advantage and disadvantage of my trees is by the forth year I'm getting bushels of TangOs (OK, maybe two bushels).

I've got a Jonboy about 15 years old that I must have taken 200 pounds of peaches from.

My trees look like Frank's. Don't see how harvestman and olpea can get good quality stone fruit, particularly nectarine and pluot, with all that vigor. High vigor means high water status and high fertility, not a formula for the best eating fruit. But as harvestman points out it is a formula for rot.

The weather in the Midwest is about the same for rainfall averages and humidity as East coast at same latitude. WI won't be much different from NY. Both are way different from west TX or CA.

This post was edited by fruitnut on Fri, Aug 16, 13 at 18:52

Actually, from my unscientific evaluation, plum brix doesn't seem much affected by vigor or water. However, I'm sure if I was used to your peaches and nectarines, FN, mine would seem somewhat bland.

The thing about the human condition, no matter how good or bad things are, we tend to get used to it. People are so thrilled with the quality of my stone fruit this year it's almost crazy, but if they were used to nectarines with 28 brix, I'm sure the response would be more blase.

I am very glad to be growing fruit in the east coast this year and I love doing it in a beautiful outdoor setting, in real soil with big, free standing trees. It is the only way I want to do it, but it's all I've ever known.

Doesn't matter what someone might be harvesting from their orchard in Santa Barbara where it almost never rains during the growing season, although, from my experience at west coast farmers markets, most Californians aren't eating better fruit than me or my friends- especially not this year.

What you do under plastic and your whole creation there is truly amazing, but I have to try to take some pictures of my own and other orchards that I manage to show you how wonderful out of doors fruit production can be, even if the climate isn't perfect.

Harvest-

I really think i would be overwhelmed with 200 pounds of peaches.

I'm shooting for variety and trying to spread out the season.

I do agree that growing on concrete reduces rot...it also raises overnight temps and increases my watering frequency (which is about every day).

"Don't see how harvestman and olpea can get good quality stone fruit, particularly nectarine and pluot, with all that vigor."

I'm new to growing nectarines and haven't harvested any yet. Pluots bloom too early for my climate so I doubt I'll ever try to grow them.

I think we grow pretty good quality peaches here, based upon responses from customers and my own experience.

Last summer it couldn't have gotten any drier. I had peaches ripening all summer long, so I got to taste them at various stages of water deficit (since it didn't rain all summer).

The fruit was sweeter under water stress, but to my palate the fruit was only slightly better than a normal year. Toward the end of the summer the fruit was so water stressed it tasted somewhat bitter. Trees had yellow foliage and dropped a lot of leaves toward the end of summer.

Our "normal" year gets pretty dry in starting midsummer anyway. If we do get rain, we normally have plenty of 90 or 100 degree weather and the ground dries real fast.

This year has been different. We had a very late start from the cold spring and the last two weeks have been very cool and cloudy with lots of rain. It's been difficult to get a good quality peach (I'm referring to taste). Peaches are big but taste watered down. I'm selling only half the peaches or less on a tree (only from the very top of the canopy).

I just harvested some Rosy Gage plums and they didn't seem to suffer from the recent rain. They don't taste watered down anyway. Kirkes Blue was better this year under the cool wet weather than last year when it was a bone dry and blazing hot.

Truth is I can't grow a good peach in my greenhouse. I don't know what the deal is but in general they seem to break down from the inside out. I'm down to one regular peach. It's on the same tree that produced mid 20s brix nectarines 6 weeks ago. The peaches are much bigger and 18-20 brix. They are very good at that brix level.

I think that one difference between peaches and nectarines is that the nectarines lose more water through their skin. Thus under water stress the tip especially can develop thick and cracked skin. The peaches have never done that. The added water loss through the skin could contribute to smaller fruit size and higher brix and flavor in water deficit nectarine vs peaches. Just a theory but more water loss should pull more sugar into the fruit. And on nectarine the tip is always sweeter than the stem end. More water loss thru tip equals more cracking and sweeter flesh.

The white peaches were all discarded long ago. None was eatable compared to the nectarines. I've got Sweet Bagel peentos about ripe and both Tangos planted. Will be interesting to see what they are like.

Question, are peaches sometimes sweeter on the tip? Or usually the same throughout?

This post was edited by fruitnut on Sat, Aug 17, 13 at 0:01

I think one reason I'm having so much pleasure growing fruit this year is that last year was the opposite- one disaster after another. By the end of the season I was practically clinically depressed. One more call from a customer complaining that they lost a ton of apples overnight might have put me over the edge. I was getting such calls through Oct.

This year at most sites there are no problem squirrels whatsoever. In my own orchard I don't even have chipmunks for the first time in 25 years and same deal with squirrels and raccoons- there are no signs of voles either.

I haven't read anything in the media about this great drop in the population of these animals but I assume there was a massive starvation in our native animal community over winter. What surprises me is that there still has been no significant rebound.

Now, after two barren years I expect a huge crop of acorns so the cycle will probably swing the other way. The predator numbers must be down by now- I gave some raw meat to a starving fledgling hawk the other day that was too weak to fly. It was hopping around my house and actually seemed to be begging for food. Scarfed that ground lamb right down and had enough energy to fly away the next day.

I wish I could save every predator so their numbers will match the rising population of my enemies- but I often stand helpless to the whims of nature.

I don't know guys... These Superior plums up to this point are amazing... The flesh is just incredible... the downside (if there is one) is the skin..if you've had wild plums, it has that slight astringency to it... but it balances very nicely if they are very ripe. Mine will fall right off the tree when they ripen, so you can't really let them hang for weeks and weeks. Someone (me?) needs to breed Superior with other pluots... Red fleshed donut Superior nectaplum :)

Squirrels are here and they are starting to hit the fruit..traps are out and the pellet rifle is on standby. I'm judge/jury and executioner :)

"Question, are peaches sometimes sweeter on the tip? Or usually the same throughout?"

Fruitnut,

I've heard that before, but quite frankly I've never paid enough attention to verify it. When I sample a peach, I eat a bite out of the side, then throw it on the ground. If I eat a whole peach, it seems like the whole thing tastes the same, regardless of where I bite, but I have to admit I haven't tried to analyze the difference b/t the "stem" end and the calyx end.

I will say that I've noticed most peaches soften first on the tip/calyx end, so it wouldn't surprise me if they were sweeter there.

Olpea-

Do you grow plums, apples, pears, pluots?

I'm going to order a few more peentos for next year... i'll take my chances with rot.

olpea: Thanks for the reply. I appreciate your insight.

Frank: I'm sure hoping you'll find some of those pluot better than Superior. Any fruit where you have to spit out the skin, Superior and Jupiter grape, isn't all that good in my book.

Fruitnut,

I don't know enough about peach but I can tell you with certainty that for mangoes and pineapples, the stem end is a lot sweeter than the other end. Mangoes when ripe are not easy to tell. Pineapples are easier. Sometimes I only eat the stem end and leave the rest (esp. the end where the leaves are) to my siblings!!!

What would be pluots that you would recommend, please? Any good variety for the east coast?

I have Satsuma that will flower next year, so that should add to the mix. Superior is delicious (if ripe)... no need to spit out the skin, but the flesh is where all the fun is... It really needs to be bred to fix the skin (it also cracks like crazy if you get rain around picking time)... If you take a perfect Superior and a perfect Alderman...you'd throw the Alderman in the garbage...its like a piece of heaven. I'm going to let some other folks try them and see what they say. I may drop the Alderman or graft it over..its a huge tree ..beautiful, but the plums are so avg.

Still waiting on the pluots...for some reason Geo Pride are falling and they are hard and not good, although completely red... Flavor Queen is still hanging... FK are almost colored.

I can't recommend any pluots for the humid areas unless you are like Frank and willing and able to provide some protection. And given how late Frank's are maturing I'm not sure you get enough heat to mature high quality fruit. They may all fall off sour. Frank has a high tunnel planned. I think that's the right approach.

My favorites that might ripen out east are Flavor Supreme, Geo Pride, and Flavor King. My Flavor King are long gone and Frank's are just turning color, not a good sign.

Thanks, Fruitnut.

It looks like pluots will be more work with an unpredictable result. I won't try it, then.

My Flavor Grenade fruit is almost ripe. I ate one that was small and badly cracked and the flavor was awesome with very high sugar although it was still hard.

The other fruit is double in size and not too badly cracked. I look forward to tasting them. At any rate, it seems a variety that sets fruit well here, given I got 3 fruit on second year of graft.

I don't care if they are cracked if I can get them to ripen without rotting- the flavor is clearly exceptionally good.

"Olpea- Do you grow plums, apples, pears, pluots?"

Frank,

I grow all those you mentioned except pluots. My understanding is that pluots bloom about the same time as most apricots or Japanese plums. I got rid of all my apricots and Jap. plums partly because they bloom too early for my area. Euro plums are more suited to my climate, which is what I'm growing now.

I do have one Japanese plum I planted last year - Shiro. Looking back I don't really know why I planted it. I think the nursery rep talked me into it.

According to Scott, Zard is a pretty good tasting white apricot that blooms the same time as peaches. It evidently has some production problems. Nevertheless I'm trying to get some trees of it established. I budded some a few days ago from some wood that Scott sent.

Frank, you should consider Earli-magic. There is no J. type plum I like more and it ripens earlier than any other high quality plum I know of- starts a couple days after Methely. As far as I can tell it is hardier than Santa Rosa as I've yet to see any cambium injury on it here- such damage is common on SR in my nursery.

H-man,

If I have space to plant only one more plum, would you recommend Earli-magic or Castleton? I know one is J. and the other is E.

I have Shiro and Satsuma in ground since last year. I want one more plum and feel like I'd try the Euro one since I have none yet. But again, I've heard Euro plum has more issues.

Your input is appreciated.

I'm getting some Flavor Grenades now and they are a very good, very large plum. The tree sets very well, the only great-setting pluot for me. They are not rotting with the MFF I sprayed a month or so ago.

I like Earli Magic for its earliness, its well before other plums. It is an aromatic and not very sour plum.

My new excitement plum this year is Lavinia, it is an excellent tasting early/mid season plum with bright orange flesh, and it seems bulletproof. The only downside is the small size in the Satsuma range. The bust is Ruby Queen, some years it is very good and others its like eating crunchy nothing; this year it was the latter again.

Satsuma is still my all-around favorite plum, it produces a ton of delicious plums for me. My wife made a crisp from the last batch today.

Scott

Thanks for your suggestion, Scott.

I love plum and want to have my own tree-ripen plums. I have already had a Satsuma and Shiro. Maybe, I should wait a year or two to see if you or other posters in the East Coast would suggest a new gem for us.

olpea: I wonder how Flat Wonderful did this humid season compared to Tango. How badly did it rot compared to Tango? Thank you.

Good to hear that some folks in the North East are enjoying Flavor Grenade pluots. They really have an exceptional flavor and sweetness, and the crunch truly sets them apart.

It was a weird year for me. usually by July 1st I have to start watering my trees, this year, it is at last dry enough as to have to water. But no humidity at all this year. It's never humid here,well never for very long if it is. No rain in sight for weeks too. I always go on vacation August 1st for various reasons, and it's always a pain because it is so dry. I often have to come back to water, this year was no exception. It should be a great year for peach production. I suspect about 35 million pounds. Maybe more this year? At any rate a good year at last for our farmers. Last year was terrible!

"The weather in the Midwest is about the same for rainfall averages and humidity as East coast at same latitude. WI won't be much different from NY. Both are way different from west TX or CA"

It rains more in TX than MN. Rainfall seems to be about the same in WI and TX. I don't see how they differ as far as rainfall? TX is ranked 34th for most rain, WI is 33rd.
MI btw is 32nd. The difference between MI and TX is we get 4 inches more rain.

NY btw is 25th. It rains a lot more in NY than WI. The main reason is the Great Lakes, it changes everything, You would think it would rain more? Also we don't get the influence of the ocean. No hurricanes and such in the Midwest. We do get the rain from them, but it's not even a tropical storm by the time it gets here.

(edit-the new toned down version).

Source:
the NOAA National Climatic Data Center

This post was edited by Drew51 on Mon, Aug 19, 13 at 20:47

"olpea: I wonder how Flat Wonderful did this humid season compared to Tango. How badly did it rot compared to Tango?"

Andrew,

Flat Wonder was very good this year and it was a pretty peach. We didn't get much rain this summer until about Aug. and Flat Wonderful ripened before the rains.

In terms of true rot, I don't see that very often except on peaches which have open wounds (i.e. bird pecks). I do get what I call skin rot, but it doesn't go any deeper than the skin (Flat Wonderful didn't have any skin rot.)

I tank mix a broad spectrum fungicide like Captan or Ziram with insecticide sprays for scab control earlier in the season. I think this provides some carryover against rot later later on. I also apply some finish sprays against rot if we've had a lot of rain. Something like Pristine or Bumper which specifically targets brown rot.

When I do see peaches rotting on trees during rainy weather, it seems like white peaches are the most problematic. We had some rot on some white peaches a few weeks ago when it was raining constantly. I remember Indian Free (when I had it) rotted even without rain. It's sort of a white peach.

Mam, they are so distinctly different that I wouldn't know what to recommend. You can't purchase Earli-magic as far as I know and could simply graft a piece on your Shiro.

Somewhat contrary to Scott's description I would call it pretty intensely sweet with tang and juice. It is meatier than Shiro, Methely or Santa Rosa. It is the best plum I've eaten in its season and it blows people away that I give samples to. If you graft it on the Shiro a think it will be the Shiro that you whittle down as the EM fills space.

Castleton is a great home orchard prune plum. Sets fruit better than any I grow and only its small fruit size is an argument against it. It gets as sweet as you want it to be- just leave it a few more days if it isn't sweet enough. Actually there is another argument against it- it ripens in Mid to late Aug and I prefer prune plums to ripen in Sept into Oct when the peaches and nectarines wind down.

Drew, tone it down, would you? FN is always courteous so give him the same benefit, please.

Thank you, H-man for your input. I know taste is subjective.

I guess my next question is how easy to grow either one of them (which has fewer diseases/issues)? I am one of those who would not mind growing the second best if it is easier to grow!!

Drew:

MI and WI have fairly uniform rainfall across the state and average what, about 30-35 inches. Texas varies from more than 60 inches to nearly zero. So whether TX averages more or less than those other states doesn't mean much.

I did state west Texas. Around this part of west Texas that's 12-15 inches.

The other factor that's just as important is evaporation. Here it's about 80-90 inches per year so rainfall is about 15-20% of evaporation. In WI, MI, and NY rainfall and evaporation are about the same. If they weren't about the same you'd not have all those big lakes. Around here a ranch with a trickle of water sells at a premium and is said to have "live water". Coming from IL that always makes me roll my eyes.

NY, MI, and WI are like peas in a pod compared to west Texas or CA. That's basically what I said earlier and I'm sticking to it.

PS: I am aware of at least some of the affects of the Great Lakes on MI precipitation. Snow is increased in some areas near the lakes. Rainfall in summer is reduced about one inch per month in some areas. That is a benefit to some fruit crops. But it's often the changes from dry to wet or vise versa that cause issues such as cracking.

Why don't we table this debate until your nectarines and pluots are producing.

This post was edited by fruitnut on Mon, Aug 19, 13 at 22:24

J.plums are easier (where I grow) than Es as long as you get by that last hard frost. E. plums bloom over a week later.

If I was growing plums for preserves, Castleton, no contest. Fresh eating, EM.

harvestman - have you dried Castleton plums for prunes? I think I read that it can be used for drying

Fruitnut0

How do you tell when Flavor Queen/Emerald Drop are ripe? Soft? I have some ED that may be ripe...

Frank:

Those two when green are hard. They are ripe when there is a little give. Also the color changes to more yellow from green.

Somewhat contrary to Scott's description I would call it [Earli Magic] pretty intensely sweet with tang and juice. It is meatier than Shiro, Methely or Santa Rosa.

Harvestman, I didn't get enough fruits to fully evaluate it, one was quite a bit too early and the other was too late. Its definitely very sweet and rich flavored and I'm looking forward to see how it does next summer.

Scott

Eboone, I haven't actually dried them all the way, but one dry year a while back they got real close. I believe it is still standard procedure for some prune producers in CA to dry similar plums on the tree.

Fruitnut-

I ate a Emerald Drop and a Geo Pride today. ED wasn't horrible, but nothing i'd write a book about either. Almost had a lemon taste to it, but i am still sick (whole family is), so my taste buds may be off...Geo Pride seems a little too dry for me. I do like that its freestone. I have quite a few more to pick...everything looks great. 'll let them hold for another 2 weeks or so. I see most things I read say Flavor King is ripe Sept 1st, so i shouldn't be too bad...mine are fully colored (although not that big)... The dapple dandy look fantastic (good size/nice color)... I'll try to let these hang as long as i can into Sept.

I picked the rest of my TangOs... These were probably left too long on the tree...bees were starting to sting them. Very sweet, but not much (peach) flavor... nice texture. Neat fruit, but nothing i'd want a whole tree full of (a dozen of them is plenty). Give me Saturn anyday over this...but that is just my opinion.