I'd forget about an avocado. Mexicola varieties are hardy down to 18F, but that's for an established, older tree. I think it would be a tenuous experiment at best, and you may invest several years and almost "get there", only to see your hopes dashed.

Pineapple guavas are extremely hardy, but do require cross-pollination. I've got two planted in the same hole, and they've formed a dense bush with quite a few fruits this season. I haven't tasted them yet, and I understand they're good. I've read conflicting info on the hardiness of strawberry guavas. Some say they're frost-hardy, others say no.

I have an 'LSU Improved' Celeste fig, which right now is loaded with fruits that slowly ripen month after month. Delicious, but... Figs are sensitive to excessive moisture, and all the rains we've been getting have so far ruined about 7 pounds' worth. I think you could keep it pruned back so it stays within the size you're looking for, although you have to be careful how you prune it so you don't lose new wood.

If I were to give you a vote, it'd be a peach. Check your chill hours, and select a variety that matches your climate. I think of all the possible fruits you could grow, nothing matches the difference between a grocery-store peach versus a fresh-from-the-tree peach. We have between 600-750 chill hours here, and I can recommend the Southern Pearl peach in that range, although I'm guessing you're quite a bit warmer than we are. There are warmer varieties available.

Most citrus can be kept fairly compact, and there are dozens of varieties available to suit your individual tastes. Some may require winter-protection. Don't plant more of the same...BOR-ing!! ;-)

Good luck!

-Bruce

Hi Bruce,

Thanks for all the suggestions!

The right varieties of Avocados can grow here--you do see a lot fewer than in Southern California and I gather that fruit production can be a lot less reliable. Actually a guy was just telling me Saturday that there used to be a commercial orchard nearby (but closer to the Bay, so less frost). I haven't been able to confirm this. What I did find are articles about Avocado trees on the Stanford campus (they are about 12 miles away, with essentially identical climate). Obviously they have survived our coldest winters:

http://trees.stanford.edu/ (follow link for fruit trees)

"As one approaches the Inner Quad from Serra Mall, there is a shady grove left of Memorial Court with a grove of noble avocado trees known to generations of alumni. The ripe avocados that may be found from time to time often attract enterprising harvesters and with luck one may find windfalls. The sheltered courtyard situation has enabled the trees to thrive with occasional signs of frostbite on the glossy oval leaves, up to 10 by 4 inches in size. Two of the trees are thought to be 'Fuerte'; the others are Guatemalan."

The trees I found in the nursery are expensive and I didn't find anything that looked like a dwarf except for the 'Don Gilogly' variety which has been pretty thoroughly trashed on forums like this. I looked for pomegranates with minimal seeds (I believe they exist...) and didn't find anything. I find it too much trouble to deal with inedible ones.

There's one big difference between the deep South and California (besides moisture and summer heat) which can affect hardiness significantly. The warmer parts of the South are often a lot warmer on average at night (and day) than equivalent USDA zones in California. For example, Orlando on January 31 st: 72 F/ 50 F. San Jose: 58 F/ 40 F. I believe both are 9b. The plants in San Jose have experienced a lot of temps in the 30s all winter--yet frosts are rare. Occasionally it will dip below 32 for just a couple hours than right back up again. In Florida, of course, it tend to get cold when a huge cold front plunges South, and I think (?) temperatures can stay colder for longer. So although they technically get just as cold, some plants can adapt to gradual change (and constant colder temps), whereas some enjoy generally higher temps, yet the sudden change may do them in. Now how this applies to individual plants--citrus, avocado, etc. I don't have a clue. Certainly if one has sheltered locations, is willing to work at it, or has a source of cheap plants it's worth experimenting.

Cheap plants: something I should have added--our local nursery is celebrating 60 years and having all sorts of unbelievable specials. On Saturday it was 60% of any one item (absolutely anything--say you had your eye on a $1500 fountain--now $600).

I was in fact a bit boring and bought a Key (aka Mexican) Lime. I've always heard it's too cold here, the nursery says they're fine, but it's best to protect them when it gets particularly cold. It's a $16 experiment (usually $40) so even if it dies, no big loss. Our Bearss lime is about 10 years old and has never borne too much (it seems to be picking up this year). As far as I know it's never been seriously frost damaged.

We replaced an old (yet small and very productive) Myer lemon here 2 or 3 years ago (it died). The new plant hasn't fruited heavily yet, although it did bloom heavily a few months ago. These bushes/trees perform so well here that it should soon. The 14th of next month is the nursery's day for 60% off all 2 gallon Bearss limes and Myer lemons. This day is a bit less flexible than the original anything goes 60% off day, and it will be hard to resist yet another Myer Lemon at $12 (normally $30).

However...it turns out that a third spot just opened up (a bush just died). And the nursery is having another 60% off any one item at the end of its 60 day celebration (specials every day--I find it hard to imagine they're not going broke). So looks like I'll be buying something else--if not a tree, things like fertilizer and soil, peat, etc. will always be used.

I like the suggestion of a peach tree. We used to have this miniature one about 10 feet from those spots where citrus are--it couldn't have been more than 3 feet tall. It bore extremely heavily every year. This is a suburban neighborhood, and the squirrels were gone initially. They are back in full force and I understand they love peaches.

I mentioned that I have some rooted fig cuttings. This is a great fig growing area with no rain from May through September. I'm going to put one of those in the ground in the 3rd spot. It's an LSU purple, which comes heavily recommended as a vigorous plant with great fruit. It's generally grown in the South, but apparently most all figs are great here. It also has properties that should work well for a plant that will need to be heavily pruned--only a small breba crop (fruits off the previous year's wood) plus it's supposed to bear heavily off of new wood--I understand that people in colder climates whose trees have frozen back to the ground can get fruit. The cutting is smaller and younger than is ideal to put in the ground, but since I have two others I'm giving it a shot.

So my remaining question is: what to buy at a nursery sale where I can pick any one item--anything--for 60% off? For anyone who has read through this incredibly long post--what would you buy?

I think I follow the difference between the CA and FL climates in the description you posted, even though the numbers may be the same. I suppose that explains the use of "Sunset Zones" in your state. I tried a 'Stuart' avocado here a couple years ago, but frost (and I think too much rain) got it. It came with the best recommendations for fruit quality as well as hardiness. Oh well. Perhaps an avocado would work well for you...

The possibility of sub-35F temps makes exotic recommendations for you a tough one. There are hardy navels that can stand on their own after a few years' worth of growth. Satsumas are hardy too. Leaf miners are a pain, though.

I think I'd want to take a closer look at why you have bushes dying before I plant anything else. Also, the fact that the Bearss lime has underperformed is maybe important.

Have fun at the sale! Sounds like a blast!

-Bruce

Apples are really easy to keep small, especially if on Bud. 9 or M9 rootstock (don't bother with M27, too wussy). I was really happy with Williams's Pride this year, ripens in the middle of August heat but looks and tastes like October. It's self-fertile enough for your needs. Ignore the chilling hour rating (same goes for all apples), it will do fine.

Applenut

Bruce,

The most extreme example in California that I can think of regarding USDA zones is the low desert areas--the hottest, of course is Death Valley, which regularly gets above 120 F in the shade, vs. the Northwest redwood coast (say Eureka). In the latter the temperatures are almost always between 40 and 65--It makes San Francisco seem warm. Both Eureka and Death Valley are zone 9. There's a bit of difference in humidity, too...The Sunset zones are a bit of a necessity out here.

Zone 8a sounds way too cold for an Avocado to me (isn't Seattle 8b?). But then again, if the averages are higher in Florida maybe certain things will make it.

The Meyer lemon that died was about 30 years old; the other shrub, a Rhaphiolepis, was probably pushing 40. I'm guessing they died of old age.

I don't know why the Bearss lime hasn't been producing that much--too cold in winter, not warm enough in summer? Not enough fertilizer? As I say, it is starting to pick up.

I forgot to mention--this entire area used to be Orchards until Silicon Valley got started. It was covered with mostly Cherries, Apricots and Plums/Prunes, with a few others such as figs and walnuts.

Just an update--it turns out our nursery's sales include one day where you can preorder a fruit tree for 60% off. The list of available trees is extensive. The current plan is to go for a seedless pomegranate instead of another Meyer lemon. So a little less boring...