Grasses (lawns):-
Reduce erosion of valuable topsoil.
Filter precipitation as it goes down to the water table.
Ameliorates the ambient air temperature.
Provide a safe recreational surface.
Are aesthetically appealing.
Provide significant employment opportunities directly to the Lawn Maintenance Profession and indirectly to the supporting trades.
Provide wholesome activity to members of the household.
If you care to find out the role of grasses in our our daily lives, I am sure that you can demonstrate that your vocabulary has more breadth than depth.

www.imageshack.us to upload your photo. No registration required. Then paste the address here that it gives you. I know that a number of us are interested in the clover and are trying to grow it but in the past, your anti-lawn remarks have come probably rubbed us the wrong way. Being that this is the lawn care forum, it would be great if we could all treat each other with some respect. At least for a little while.

I have a couple of lawns that I mixed in a little white clover when I replanted them. I didn't know it was a big deal.

Some people think clover is a weed. In fact, today after three full generations of indoctrination from the chemical companies, universities, and even the government, if you don't think of clover as a weed, then somebody has seriously been living in the jungles of Borneo. You have to read some pretty old books to learn about clover as a part of grass seed mixes.

When you have thick clover patches of 5' x 5' it is a weed, when spread throughout the lawn it is a soil ammendment.

"if you don't think of clover as a weed, then somebody has seriously been living in the jungles of Borneo."

As recently as the mid 60s (maybe late 60s), I remember going to the local seed store with my dad and he would ask for a seed blend, insisting that the clover seed needed to be inoculated.

What I can tell is that if you want to get a backyard playfield for kids or pets, you need turf grass, not clover. If you have it on your front yard, your guests will ask you what you get there.

Fine to use lawn alternate in other places....

Fine to use lawn alternate in other places....

Agreed. I left 7,000 square feet as lawn, but turned 4,000 into gardens.

Because I hate lawn or think its bad? No, I like it and I'm as organic as I can be on it. I just like gardens too.

Dchall, I thought you were an advocate of DWC. Weren't you trying to grow it?

What I can tell is that if you want to get a backyard playfield for kids or pets, you need turf grass, not clover. If you have it on your front yard, your guests will ask you what you get there.

Fine to use lawn alternate in other places....

I agree, I have a four year old and a new one coming this summer, I don't need the bees all over the lawn. There are plenty of flowers they can tend to. Besides, I love the look of a dark green manicured lawn. Now if I could get rid of the POA and my funky weeds....

Well, I see that I have some who agree with me, and some who don't.

From my perspective, having a "well manicured" lawn is just plain wasteful and toxic. It takes up to much water and poisons the ground etc. I recently heard of a golf course that was being sold for new construction. Well guess what, environmental studies indicated that the land was highly toxic due to all of the chemicals used for over 20 years. All of this so people can putt a pill around on "perfect grass".

This "thing" that people have about a perfect lawn with every blade of grass being perfect is just plain stupid. When will people realize what this is doing to their atmosphere? Probably never.

As soon as I can figure out how to post a photo, I will.

SG

From my perspective, having a "well manicured" lawn is just plain wasteful and toxic. It takes up to much water and poisons the ground etc.

Really, it doesn't have to be. I use organic feed (soybean meal and Milorganite). Neither are wasteful or toxic--my flower gardens require much more care. Anything I can eat out of the spreader (the soybean, anyway) sure isn't going to hurt the environment.

Water, eh, not so much. When it wilts, which is at least eleven days and getting longer. We've lacked rain for eight days now and my lawn looks just fine. The flowers require water far more often.

Mowing...with an automated electrically run robot. Whose batteries are properly recycled into new batteries. CO2 into the air is far less than a gas mower and it isn't loud enough to hear from forty feet away.

I recently heard of a golf course that was being sold for new construction. Well guess what, environmental studies indicated that the land was highly toxic due to all of the chemicals used for over 20 years. All of this so people can putt a pill around on "perfect grass".

That's not a lawn, it's a golf course. Even so, we have organic golf course folks on here who are excellent stewards of their local environments.

Now let's discuss orchards or the local corn/alfalfa fields...or not. I frankly do not want to think about it.

That having been said, this is a lawn forum. You won't find too many people who will agree with you here and resistance to a strawman argument should not surprise you greatly.

Toxic? Poisons? I don't use any chemicals on my lawn, just plain old soybean meal. I cut the grass high and water only once a week if even that often.
I agree that chemicals should not be used for a lawn to look good, that's why I use organic fertilizers.
I agree that watering a lawn frequently is a waste, it also is not healthy for the lawn, therefore I water only when the lawn NEEDS it.

So how is it that someone who practices lawncare in this manner is poisoning our atmosphere? And so what if one likes a nice looking lawn, that is "stupid"??
Maybe it is not "your cup of tea", but I find peace in mowing, trimming, and later sipping a glass of shiraz with the smell of fresh cut grass in the air.

Bottom line is that I do not disagree with you or anyone else preferring clover or any other ground cover, it is a personal choice. Just don't assume that evreyone with green grass is destroying the earth...

From my perspective, having a "well manicured" lawn is just plain wasteful and toxic

Like a few others here I have used alfalfa meal, corn meal, soy meal and let my KGB Fescue mix turn a light Grey before watering. In the summertime heat this will take about 5-7 days with no rain at all.

I recently heard of a golf course that was being sold for new construction.

I am sure glad I don't own or live on a golf course. My yard does not have a putting green or a driving "T" box. I am concerned about or environment but I think SG needs to post his wrath elsewhere.

"Whoever could make two ears of corn or two blades of grass grow upon a spot of ground where only one grew before, would deserve better of mankind, and do more essential service to his country than the whole race of politicians put together." (Jonathan Swift).
It matters not what you grow but there does seem to be merit in growing it better.

Spiritual Gardener,
Would we all be better off from if we
plowed under our yards and planted them
with clover or native grasses? Yes. But
by and large it aint gonna happen anytime
soon. Go grind another axe.

If you choose to tear up your failed attempt at a front lawn and plant clover in its place fine that's your business, I pity your neighbors, but good luck to you.

But I think coming into this lawn care forum with a chip on your shoulder, insulting people and making holier than thou anti-lawn pronouncements is completely uncalled for.

"As soon as I can figure out how to post a photo, I will."

It sounds like you got everything else figured out... still waiting on the photos.

Go to www.imageshack.us (not .com)
Upload your picks from your computer then post the links it gives you here.
Its free and no registration is required.

If you want something in your yard, its NOT a weed. If you dont want it in your yard, it is a weed.
I have SA in my yard and consider that a weed.
Its all relitive.
So what happens when we all plant clover and use chemicals to keep out the grasses??
This is a weak argument.

spiritual_gardner, I've been waiting for your pics. Upload them now!

I'm not a computer person (I know just enough to get on the GW. I also know very little about the c.d. remote, can't make that work either). I really do hate them, as well as t.v., radio etc.

I've tried to find someone who can show me how it's done, with no luck. Numerous people have tried to tell me how to do it, no luck.

When ever I find I'm wasting to much time on this thing, I stop for a few months. That time has come. See you all in the fall.

SG

I'm hoping that these instructions will help you in uploading pictures to ImageShack as well as showing it to the members of GW.

Here are steps.

1. Take a picture of the object
2. Move the picture from camera to computer
3. Goto http://www.imageshack.us

4. Click Browse button and find the picture that you copied to your computer in Step 2.

5. Click the "host it!" button. You can resize the picture by checking the resize checkbox and select the size you want. Ideal size for webpages is 800x600.

6. After clicking "host it!", your picture will be moved from your computer to Imageshack's computer(I.T. folks call it server farm). See image below after "host it!" was clicked.

7. Once you see that kind of screen, page down or scroll down until you see the "Direct link to image" just right of the rectangle. Actually, it's the last choice.

8. Highlight the whole line as shown in the picture starting from http upto jpg.

TIP: gif is ideal for flat colors like a capture of an application software window and jpeg is ideal for photorealistic pictures.

9. Once the text is highlighted, on the keyboard press CTRL+C or you can click Edit menu above on your webbrowser then click Copy.

10. Now, the text you highlighted is on the clipboard(I.T. folks call it memory address, hehehe).

11. We can now start posting the image to Gardenweb.

Type the following. Make sure that img and src have a blank space in between them. Also, the src will contain the link to our image that is enclosed by double quotes. Put the blinking cursor in between the double quotes and press CTRL+V. The CTRL+V is Microsoft's paste command. Another way is by clicking with mouse the Edit menu then Paste.

The one you are typing should look similar below.

You can now click "Preview Message" button so you can check if you are able to see the image you uploaded to ImageShack. If you are happy with the result, you can click "Submit Message" button.

Voila!

I have used photo bucket in the past. I am sure it works similar to this method.

http://s21.photobucket.com

I started a clover lawn this last March. Very happy I did. In most areas its already so strong its like a green matress.
I have a question though - does anyone know why in some areas the clover sprouted well, but then got feeble and thin and died.
Two people have told me that those soil areas are too acidic for white dutch clover - so my question is can I simply add ground up calcium carbinate (I have tons of this) this these areas to make my clover grow?

"I'm not a computer person (I know just enough to get on the GW. I also know very little about the c.d. remote, can't make that work either). I really do hate them, as well as t.v., radio etc. "
----------------------------------------

Me wonders WHY you even bought a computer at all. Don't you know it wastes electricity? I suppose next , you will want us all to go back to horse and buggy? Me thinks you just had an axe to grind with people who love a well manicured lawns LIKE I DO. Yes, I even use chemicals! I must be EVIL in your book. And ME also thinks you just don't want to post photos of your clover covered lawn. My 86 year old Grandma can even post photos. Now, back to spraying weed-b-gone.

When I looked at my garden this spring I realized that, in parts, there is actually an interesting mix of grass AND clover, pretty evenly distributed. Looks kind of cool, actually.

I am so bored with cutting the grass every three days that I'm going to overseed with clover and let the two duke it out (hopefully choking some weeds in the process). I'm too busy with other things to try to create a manicured lawn - it's just not important enough. As long as it's green and healthy (and NOT crabgrass), I'm happy.

crazy_lawn, kubotabx2200, you dont know what you are talking about. I dont blame you, you simply lack basic education (and IMHO taste). Last thing I need is my neighbour manicuring her lawn, she might as well put a plastic grass lawn down. Natural, lightly managed lawns look best to me. Last thing I want is my neighbours using chemicals on their lawns, coz at that point its not only their children that injest toxins, its mine too, and its unfair.
Leave your lawns alone. Go read some books. Visit old europen estates with lawns that have been managed for 100s of years