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Preliminary Plate flower adhesive results

concretenprimroses
11 years ago

Hello, I'm not comfortable giving away my plate flowers until I find a hanger and an adhesive for the hangers that I can count on. Some of you may remember that the plumbers goop gave way on the metal to glass after a year here in NH, and some of you have had similar experience with it in your gardens. Some have advocated 2 part epoxy based on short term indoor experiments. I've also wondered about mac glue which the developer of uses for stained glass stepping stones in her own garden. So I decided to do an experiment as follows:

4 Plate Flowers total using the following adhesives

A. GE Silicone II for Windows and Doors, Clear: used for plates to eachother as has been very reliable historically

B. Mac Glue: used for the glass embellishments (half marbles etc). This is an expensive but very clear glue developed by a glass artist.

C: Automotive Goop for 2 of the flattened spoon hangers to glass. I decided to try Automotive Goop because it says both glass and metal which Plumbers goop does not, and it is rated to -40 degrees F.

D: Two Part Epoxy for 2 of the plate flowers' hangers, one with a flattened spoon and one with an already flat cake server which I pounded on to give it some tooth. HD didn't have a 2part epoxy rated below -10F which is not enough for around here, but I found one at the local building supply store that is rated to -40F.

Here is a pic of the adhesives:

{{gwi:199852}}

I made them about 3 weeks ago and left them inside to cure for a week and set them outside two weeks ago. We have already had several days of -10F.

2 of the plates were sitting on the back porch because the spoons are too big for the pipes that I have, one of each automotive goop and 2 part epoxy.

Results so far, after 2 weeks in NH winter weather.

A: GE Silicone II good on glass to glass as usual for me

B: Mac glue embellishments, 3 elongated half marbles have fallen off.

C: Both automotive goop hangers, the one up on the conduit in the garden and the one on the porch are still firmly attached.

D: Two part epoxy

The spoon on the one on the porch fell off when I picked up both the porch flowers and carried them to the garden to see if they would fit in my solar light stakes (no). The hanger for the one in the garden with the cake server appears to be ok.

When I looked closely at the spoon which still had the epoxy on it, I realized that it was actually flaking off and I pulled it off easily in one piece.

Here is a pic of it, I'm going to post other pics in the next post.

{{gwi:199853}}

kathy

Comments (110)

  • laurastheme
    9 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    The information that I'm getting is that E6000 doesn't work well for outdoor use. A MONTH cure for Lexel??? I read 1-2 weeks! I only used it once because of the long cure time, but have thought about trying it again. I've been using GE silicone for the spoons on the back of flowers. I tried pulling them off and they wouldn't budge. Should I change to automotive goop?

  • flowers12
    9 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I've been using E6000 for two years and it's been perfect for holding together totems and plate flowers with spoons. The only negative that I've experienced is that it seems to have turned opaque on some of the totems. I inspected my PF's today and they haven't shown signs of the glue turning opaque. It seems like GEII is the one being used widespread and for quite some years so it must be the one to use. Has anyone experienced the clear turning white or opaque?

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  • tehuti
    9 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I add glass pieces to my sculptures; many I have posted here off and on. The link KatherineMidwest posted shows a drill used to make holes in the plates. I prefer a Dremel Tool. It is so much easier to manipulate and diamond bits are inexpensive on ebay. I can't function without a Dremel Tool it is the most versatile of all my tools. With the "cut-off" wheel you can easily trim the mounting bolt right down to the nut.

  • Desrtdove
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Hoping this posting isn't dead and someone will reply =) Kathy, thank you so much for posting your experiments and results. Greatly appreciate it!! Your work is lovely too! I've been researching and experimenting for several months now with plate flowers and different types of adhesive and haven't found anything yet to be truly successful. I live in the southwest...VERY hot summers and can be very cold winters, but with very little moisture. The Lexel I tried first, but found that it varies greatly as to it's cure time if it even cures at all. Some items on the same flower done the same day in the same conditions would cure in a few days...others a few weeks...others over a month. On another PF, parts of it cured while others didn't cure at all???? It remained a gooey mess. I can't figure it out. Any ideas/suggestions on as to why that may occur?? I've used Liquid nails clear small projects (for indoor/outdoor use) goes on very well and seems to have a secure hold, but don't hold up outside for even a day. I have used two part epoxies for many years and have always liked them for most of my projects, but found it unsuccessful for this application (too brittle). I will try the GE Silicone II, but was hoping to have several flowers done before Christmas this year to give as gifts =( and not sure how to get the old/unsuccessful adhesive off to redo with the GE II. I would sure appreciate any suggestions and thank you again for posting your results!

  • laurastheme
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I've used GE silicone for years with success. Once in awhile I have a failure, but I find that out before putting them outside. I pull hard on all the glued pieces. If they feel even a little bit 'soft' I take them apart and do over. Doesn't happen very often. Just make sure when you buy the silicone that the date hasn't expired. It's imprinted on the bottom end of the tube and is hard to see. I get the squeeze tube but some people use the tube with the gun.

    Getting the old glue off is the yucky part. I scrape and sand until I'm sure it's all gone. Nothing sticks to silicone after it's cured.

    We live in a rather mild climate and I leave my flowers out all year around. No hot summers, but we have some winter temps around 32 degrees or a little below. I have a relative in Okla. who has one of my flowers and she hasn't had any problem with the heat. I don't know if she brings it in during the winter or not. Good luck.
    Laura

  • Desrtdove
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Thank you for your reply, Laura! Thank you also for your advice and experience! I will check the expiration date on the Lexel...I'll be ticked if it has expired as it's pretty expensive. Tried it again on a new PF and it didn't set up at all....simply remained a gooey mess =(

    I will definitely give the GE a try.

    I must admit, I'm not looking forward to trying to get the old adhesive off, but I will get to it as Christmas is right around the corner =)

    Thank you again!
    Holly

  • dansgirl
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I'm just starting this cause I saw them at a trade days and loved them but the lady would not reveal what glue she used. I have googled and googled and came to an interesting conclusion.What could be stronger and more waterproof than aquarium sealent?Any thoughts out there?

  • rafor
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Aquarium sealant is what I use. I've tried other stuff, but it seems to eventually get brittle and give way. Haven't had that problem with the aquarium sealant. Only down side is that I have only found the aquarium sealant in small tubes, so it gets expensive that way.

  • dansgirl
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Thanks for your reply. I guess if it holds well,in the long run it's worth it!

  • Janie_L
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I just made my first plate flowers and a bird bath. I used the GE Silicone II Caulk and am hoping all holds! I'm in PA and we get very hot, humid summers and pretty cold winters. I just assumed I would take in the flowers at end of summer but if they will hold up in the cold, they would be pretty out there in the snow. What is everyone using for the pole? Do wooden dowel rods hold up?

  • flowers12
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    With the first few flowers and totems I made I used wooden dowel rods. They lastest about two years before they rotted in the soil. I now use a piece of rebar and put a piece of painted pvc over it to hang the flower on. I'm using bent spoons on the back of my plate flowers. The totems can just slip over the piece of rebar. I've been using liquid rubber to coat the ends of the rebar so it doesn't hit on the glass. Good luck and have fun making more.

  • Janie_L
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Thanks for your reply. Good to now about the dowel rod.I am going to try the rebar. I found a couple bottles to glue on the back of the plates and then I will just slip them over the rebar. I would not have thought to coat it! Will do that too! Thanks again!

  • tehuti
    8 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I'm trying to figure out why you use adhesives. Why not drill the glass and mount the created flower using a glass drawer-pull or simple nuts and bolts with a cover glued over the screw head?

  • mimi2kbc
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Not sure this forum is still active, but I thought I'd post my gluing results with my plate flowers. I drill, glue AND screw my pieces together, so if one fails, the other should hold. I use the bent spoon method for hanging and the screw goes from the front plate thru the back of the spoon and then secured with a nut. I glue each piece together as well. I've used GE Silicone II, but only on solid colored plates....it does not dry clear for me, only opaque, so I'm not pleased with it on clear plates. I use Plumbers GOOP to glue the spoon to the back plate and have had good results with it so far. Also use the GOOP for clear pieces on my plates instead of GE II and it stays clearer. I used the GE II on my garden totems, but it is very visible and opaque, so I won't use it again. I recently purchased Pittsburg Glass Block silicone after reading it dries clear and is waterproof, so I'm trying that on a totem tomorrow. I'll post my results on this glue. I haven't had any luck finding clear E6000, only white and black at my Hobby Lobby stores, but sounds like it has it's drawbacks too. I'm hoping the Pittsburg glue is the answer.
    Thanks, Kathy for all the valuable info you've provided in this forum. Very helpful!

  • a.girl.named.max
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    YES! Glue is soooo fickle. I drill whenever possible. I didn't do any plate flowers or tea cup bird feeders last year but I have lots of plates, cups, and vases waiting to be put together. I will try to put some together in the next few weeks and photograph my process.

  • cnm1
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I drilled through spoons too!!! I do not bend the spoons. The ends just go in the 3/4 in copper pipe. When I need clear glue, I use auto goop. Very good stuff - especially for metal to glass. I use GE silicone if not visible and glass to glass.

  • mimi2kbc
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I bend the spoon to slip into the conduit or copper pipe. I've added a few pics of my plate flowers. Would love to see yours!

  • mimi2kbc
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Not sure how to post more than one photo on a post, so I'll post follow-ups on this post to show you some of my plates.

  • mimi2kbc
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    The top piece on this flower was glued only and has held up all year. The only problem with this one was I used the copper bell holder on the back and it didn't hold, even though I put a screw thru the back of it. Not sure if any of you have used this method, but I prefer the spoon so much more....so far they've held up beautifully.

    This post was edited by mimi2kbc on Mon, Jan 6, 14 at 19:20

  • concretenprimroses
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Mimi, I love the center of that last flower. Gorgeous.
    I am hoping to learn to drill glass this winter. I bought the bit, just don't dare to try yet.
    My plate flowers are mostly holding up well except the ones with pipe fittings on the back. Two failed this summer after many years and two stick together. Get silicone I'm on the glass and automotive goop on the spoon. I want to drill so I can make larger nodding flowers.
    Kathy

  • concretenprimroses
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Ge II and automotive goop work best for me. Using the kindle fire Dh got me for Christmas and it has mind of its own!
    Kathy

  • laurastheme
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Very interesting. I've always used the GE silicone with good luck. And, no it doesn't dry totally clear so sometimes I've had to 'hide' it somehow. Sometimes I've covered it with flat marbles. Does the automotive goop dry clearer than the GE silicone?

    I've always been reluctant to try something else. I have flowers in my yard that have been there year around for 4-5 years. I used plastic pipe fittings on them, but I'm using spoons on all those that I sell (can't tell you where. Was told it was advertising). I was painting the pipe fittings green, but the paint scratched or wore off in spots no matter what kind I used.

    E6000 is great stuff, but very smelly and toxic. It's sometimes used to repair boats, but I've read that it doesn't hold up good under UV rays. There is one for outside use, but I've never seen it in the stores...just on the web.

    Here's one of my flowers. Picture of back on the next post.

  • laurastheme
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Red flower back

  • laurastheme
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Here's one of my favorites. Sold recently.

  • mimi2kbc
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Thanks, Kathy. That was my first plate flower and the small vase and beads that I glued are still on!
    Laura, your flowers are absolutely beautiful! So you glue only, no drilling? I use the Plumbers GOOP, not automotive and yes it dries clearer than the silicone, but sometimes clouds up just a bit. Still clearer than silicone though and I'll be trying the glass block glue tomorrow, so I'll post the results.
    I would like to try some craft shows this spring and see if I could sell my flowers. I haven't seen any around here, so they might be something different. I'm posting a few more pics of my plates. Having so much fun!

  • mimi2kbc
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I've given all my plates as gifts and everybody loves them!

  • mimi2kbc
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    One of my favorites. Also made smaller plates like this for kitchen flower pots.

  • mimi2kbc
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    This was made with Christmas dishes and made great gifts!

  • mimi2kbc
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    One last pic....this is such a sweet little flower. Hope I can find some more plates like this.

  • laurastheme
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    They're beautiful, Mimi. You have some very unique centers. Yes, I use only glue (GE sil). Haven't gotten into drilling.

  • mimi2kbc
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Thanks and I really love your violet flower, especially the center. I have tons of bead stuff, so I'm going to try and make some like this. I'm assuming you glue the copper wires into the center cup.
    Here's another one of my gift flowers.

  • cnm1
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Everyone has beautiful flowers. All the craft fairs around here have someone selling glass flowers. Most are over priced in my opinion.
    Laura - how did you do the stamens? I have thought of adding some but have not come up with a method. I used that exact frosted lavender piece in one of mine too.

  • laurastheme
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I start with marine epoxy...the kind where you have to knead the white and green together. I make a small lump with the underside flattened. I cut copper wire and add glass bead to one end. Insert the other end into the epoxy while it's still soft. When it has cured I paint it either copper like the wire or the color of the flower. Then I glue it into the flower center piece with GE silicone.

    (I flatten the bottom of the epoxy on my work table and insert the stamens. Then when the epoxy is fairly solid but not cured I pry it from the table with a knife or other flat object)

  • mimi2kbc
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Genius!!! Your work is outstanding! Is the violet piece painted glass or actually violet glass? I have a hard time finding colored glass and have not tried glass painting. I read that it works fine, but just haven't tried it.

    What prices are your plates selling for? I did sell a few similar to my plates above before Christmas for $40 each, but don't know if that's too much or not enough. Like I said earlier, I haven't seen any for sale around the Houston area, so don't have a market to gauge.
    Thanks so much for sharing your awesome techniques...I really appreciate it.

  • concretenprimroses
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Love the stamenes. Laura and Mimi you r flowers are fabulous!
    Btw, I use automotive goop only to attach the spoons. Plumbers goop failed here in New Hampshire.
    Kathy

  • mimi2kbc
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Thanks, Kathy. BTW....we've been making frequent fall foliage trip to NE since 1986 and NH is our favorite state!!!

    Plumbers GOOP might fail on my spoons here in TX too if I didn't screw as well as glue. Have either of you ever used Liquid Nails? I used it yesterday to make this garden totem for my neighbors Bday and it is clear, clear, clear!!! It says waterproof, but don't know how it will hold up outside. I'm using his totem as an experiment and if it fails, he won't mind, I'll just replace it. I'm going to try the Auto GOOP too. I must have more than a dozen glues in my studio, so what's one more!
    So nice to have an open communication with flower makers. I really enjoy this forum.
    Kathy (yep, that's my name too!)

  • laurastheme
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    mimi, the violet piece is violet glass. I have a hard time finding colored glass, too, and have considered the glass paint. I even have trouble finding plates in good colors for the flowers. Today I hit the mother lode. Found colorful plates as well as colored glass all in just one thrift shop.

    I sell the flowers for $28 - to $34 on the web...mostly $30 and up, without the rod stem. It would cost the buyers more for shipping the rod than it costs to buy one. I give the option of including the rod if they want to pay a couple dollars more for the rod and pay for the extra shipping.

    Locally they're selling for $25. That's what I was selling them for when I was doing the craft shows. I only know of one other couple who is making and selling them here and they charge $25. It has gotten too hard for me to do the set up and take down, so I went strictly to the web. Taking the photos is time consuming, but I can sit at my computer to work on the inventory and print the shipping labels, sit and do the packaging. Then I drop them off at the post office. No waiting in line. If you were selling them for $40 it's obviously not too much. Go for it!

    I sold 27 last year..a little over average 2 per month. Hoping to do better this year.

    I have some automotive goop, but haven't tried it. I have such good luck with the GE silicone that I'm afraid to try something else, especially when I'm selling them.

    Here's another one of my favorites.

    Laura

  • mimi2kbc
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    This flower is beautiful in the gorgeous NH foliage! Thanks for the pricing info. Guess I'll just give it a try and see what happens! And isn't it exciting to find all that colored glass!!!

    Well, I tried the glass block glue on the tower above and some pieces stuck but others didn't. It might need to cure longer than the silicone. I sure wish it would work because it dries super clear!
    Thanks again for all the info, it's very helpful.
    MiMi

  • mimi2kbc
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Sorry,Laura.... just realized you are not in NH....Kathy is! However, looks like you might get some fall foliage in your area. We have 2 seasons in TX...green and brown!

  • togirl67
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I'm so glad that I found this post...I just had one of my plates in my backyard fall down this morning. I'm going to try the GE or Automotive Goop next time. I'm a little concerned, because I used apoxy on the ones that I've hung on my porch...I hope they two don't fall down...they are lot exposed to the heat like the ones in the back yard.

  • Richard Dollard
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Mostly a lurker here. I would like to make some plate flowers but can't find anything on what to use to hold these up. No one seems to post a picture of the back. Can someone post some pictures and instructions on what is needs to stick them in the ground? Thanks, Richie

  • concretenprimroses
    Original Author
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    Hi Richie,
    Most of us use bent flattened spoons either stuck or screwed to the back then the spoon is inserted into a piece of metal or plastic conduit.
    Kathy

  • lindacraw
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I was at a craft fair today where a lady had beautiful glass garden stake plates. Asked what glue she uses....she said E6000 is highly toxic, so she orders Lexel glue online. Needs a full 30 days to cure before placing outdoors

  • laurastheme
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I got a tube of lexel some time ago, but didn't want to wait for the long cure time so stuck with ge silicone for windows and doors. It has held up very well. For inside items I use sometimes use E6000. i wear gloves and also a mask if the fumes seem to strong. I think I've read that it's not toxic after it cures. Does anybody else know anything about that?

  • BUMPYANDME
    7 years ago
    last modified: 6 years ago

    I am using Marine goop and so far so good it dries clear. for those of you that sell at bazaars what do you use to display them? I use the hockey puc on the back of my plates with the e bar so they are heavy to stand.

  • Ginny Stanerson
    6 years ago

    I did not read all comments in detail as by the time I saw this (Sept 2015), some of dates went back to '09. I make flowers also...I have settled on E6000, I have tried GE , Goop, etc....and I always return to E600. I sell at many various events, have now for 2 years. This is my "routine", clean and wash the dishes, then clean with acetone, I use a dremel tool to roughen up the edges of contact. Some things can be glued all at once depending on how they nestle into each other and will lay for curing, or I do "sections" of each project and then put the sections together. I also pay attention to how the glue will settle and sag into gravity. (sounds scientific huh?? LOL) A lot of things get cured upside down....I let things cure for a good 2 weeks if not more before selling and anything that hangs, gets hung in my garage for a few weeks too, to be sure they don't fall apart. I use uniform salt shakers for all my projects, restaurant grade, these are the only things I purchase new. I found thrift shop ones did not hold up and we liked the uniformity of using the same shakers which led us to uniform size of conduit etc...kind of like a factory line. Please visit me at: https://www.facebook.com/dishitupwhimsyz

    Happy Flower Making!!

    PS. tried many times to download a pix and could not...

  • kurango
    5 years ago

    When I first started making plate flowers (approx. 6 years ago) I used the recommended GE Silicone II clear (always looked at the date) with reasonable success. But I also tried e6000, UV6800 (e6000's big brother) Lexel, clear Liquid Nails, Auto Goop, & 2 part epoxies. They all worked about the same and I knew if they were going to work . . . the bond would be apparent within an hour.

    I stopped making them because I couldn't get anything to bond, the silicone, e6000, etc. would just never dry.

    I live in Southern California so no extreme temps. but a few weeks ago
    it got close to freezing and a few flowers fell apart.

    Now I am trying
    to put the back nuts back on (see below) but again I can't get anything to bond and my silicone has an expiration date of April 2017.

    I have sanded both surfaces slightly, results . . . worse than ever.

    My question is has anyone tried something new? Like Beacon Glass, Metal & More Premium Permanent? Or Nano470?


    Here is a video where the glues a glass shelf to a glass wall (using Nano470) and a few minutes later he stands on the shelf. This stuff is kind of expensive $30 for 20g. It is suppose to work with metal to glass and glass to glass so if it would really keep my flowers together forever it might be worth a try?

    Thanks for reading and watching,

    Kathi

  • flowers12
    5 years ago

    Hmmm, impressive strength. I wonder how it holds up outside in extreme heat and cold? At that price I don't know if I would use it for such a small amount. I've made totems and plate flowers for the past 6 years and used E6000 mostly after trying some of the other options. The E6000 turns brownish after a year in the hot sun and I researched for a while and found the UV6800 which is used for boat repair etc. I've used it now for two years and see no discoloration and I have left my flowers and totems out all year round, 115 high in summer and low of 29 in winter. Staying intact. I had a few of my older items fall apart with the E6000 and cleaned them up and reglued them with the UV6800, so far still intact.

  • nanddaschel
    5 years ago

    I have been using GE clear silicone...I don't use spoons but have been using pyrex test tubes on the backs and silicone steaks painted green as stems

  • HU-596296979
    2 years ago

    Is this what everyone is calling “automotive goop”, or is there something with that actual name? I’m at the store now hoping someone sees this and responds



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