I live in eastern pa in the poconos the soil is a clay type soil out here. The company also said that this spring we should aerate the soil because it is very heavy clay soil it would help it breath. I'm the type of guy that is out there on my hands and knees pulling out the weeds by hand for hours I spent so much to get it installed and I do my best to do what I can but it seems like nobody today knows what they are doing I would love to have someone who could come here a give me real advice on what to do.

What city are you near? How many square ft. of lawn? Does the lawn get 6 or more hours of sunligh daily? Are you able/interested in doing it youself?

I'm in stroudsburg pa. I will do things myself but I like professionals to do something I'm not so great at but if no one is a pro here I guess it will get done right if I do it myself. It's around 12000 sq. ft

Oh and yes the lawn gets sun at least 8 hours or more!

Well let's let this sit a bit and see if anyone here can recommend a pro in your area that knows what they are doing. If you don't get a bite in a day or two, I'm sure there are plenty of people here willing to give you good advice on doing it yourself. Just post if you want do-it-yourself advice.

I'll take any advice. I'm a do yourself person unless it's something I can really screw up.

You can handle the entire care program yourself. The reason you would want to is that it seems most lawn care companies scrimp on fertilizer by using liquids when solid fertilizer is required. Most lawn mowing companies insist on mowing too short. And neither one of the above will encourage you to water properly.

When did you have the lawn seeded with the new soil? Do you know what kind of seed they used (Kentucky bluegrass, fescue, and rye are the main choices)? It could be that your results would be considered 'normal' if you seeded in the spring. Certainly your results from the summer slit seeding would be considered normal. The only worse time than spring (to seed cool season grasses) is summer.

How often do you water and for how long?
When were the last two times the lawn was fertilized and with what (if you know)?

Hopefully you have 60/40 mix of crabgrass and Kentucky bluegrass. Crabgrass is fixin' to die out for the winter. KBG will return but fescue and rye - once they die they are out and must be reseeded. KBG will go dormant, which resembles dead grass but is just a dormant growth stage. Lower temps and more moisture will bring it back.

Are any of your neighbors having success with their lawns? If so then I'm going to suggest postponing a soil test. If several of the lawns are mostly dead or weeds, then you should get a soil test for sure.

Do you have a brick factory nearby? Or was there ever one nearby? If so then you might actually have clay. If not, then do a jar test. For the jar test you need a straight sided jar and about half the jar's capacity of soil. Put the soil in the jar and measure the height of the soil with a ruler. Take a picture of the soil with the ruler next to it. Then fill the jar with water and a drop or two of liquid soap. Put the lid on the jar and shake it like crazy to break up any and all clods in the jar. Then put the jar down on a table. In 2 minutes, put the ruler up to the jar and take another picture. Come back in 2 hours and take another picture. Then come back in 2 days and take the last picture. This simple test is one of the most reliable ways to determine your soil content. Everything that settled out in the first 2 minutes was sand and rubble. Everything that piled up on top of that in the next 2 hours was silt. Everything that settled on top of that in the next 2 days would be heavier mineral particles. What you will be left with is either cloudy/murky water or water that you can see through. If you can see through the jar at all, then you have very little to no clay at all. If the water still looks like mud, then you have the clay you think you have. I'm betting you don't have much clay. You can check this out here. They say the clay will have settled out in 2 days. Try it for yourself.

Just to summarize Lawn Care 101, water deeply and infrequently; mulch mow at your mower's highest setting (we can talk about that); fertilize with chemicals once in late spring and twice in the fall (or with organic fertilizer you can do it in early spring, late spring, (or the early to mid/late spring if you are an old fan of Steve Martin), any time in the summer, and any time in the fall). I would strongly suggest using organic fertilizer at least once a year, every year, to keep the soil happy. I can expand on any of that later if you have not already found it here in this forum.

Watering? I have six zones and they run 1 zone per however long I set it for. I have the rain bird sprinkler heads and I usually set the time for 1 hour each zone. I just started setting it to go off every two days. If you can give me a good watering schedule I can follow it. No brick factory near by and I only multch keeping the mower at 3" is the highest my mower goes. The grass is a cool season kentucky blue mix. They dropped soil , seed, lime, and a starter fertilizer in late march. It grew in great until that company came in and dropped there fertilizer to early. No one else in my neighborhood has any problems with there lawn. Lawn was last fertilized in mid may .

Measure how much water your irrigation system puts out on each zone in one hour. You can do this by just putting out a couple of tuna or cat food cans under the sprinkler canopy. If you don't have a cat or you don't like tuna, you can buy little inexpensive plastic rain guages - 2 0r 3 and use those. You can do your own re-seeding, it just takes a bit of work, or if you prefer re-hire the original company if you can afford them and you were happy. Whichever you do: Apply Ortho Weed B Gon Max with Crabgrass Control (needs to be done 2 wks prior to seeding) to kill off the weeds in preparation of seeding which should to be done the first week of September give or take.
The hard part of re-seeding only requires that you take off any dead matter (dead grass and weeds) so that bare soil is exposed. Short version: 1.Kill the weeds. 2. Mow the lawn down to 1-1 1/2". 2. Rake the dead matter up to expose bare soil (hand rake or rent a power rake). 3. Spread seed (you can just broadcast spread it or use a slit seeder to seed) 4. Cover seed with a thin layer of topdressing (common topdressing for seeding is peat moss- a bag will cover a little over 1K sq ft) 5. Apply a starter fertilizer and water 3- 4 times a day just enough to keep seed moist) 6. once seed germinates change to watering 2x a day for 20-25 min (depends on how mach water the sprinler puts out) Once you mow for the third time you water once a week for how ever long it takes to put down about 1" of water. 6. Apply andother dose of Starter fert. People here can advise you on what to do this late fall and what care regiment you should do next year for a healthy good looking lawn.

Great answers! Thanks.

Then I would consider this experience to be normal for a spring seeded lawn. What you are going to do this fall would be considered a partial renovation. You can dig out the crabgrass with something like a vertical rake, power rake, slit seeder, or some other tool with vertically rotating blades. Set it to cut down to the soil level, rake or blow away the chaff. Then you can put down your seed and walk on it to get good contact with the soil. It is better to leave a little crabgrass than to take out the KBG. The crabgrass will definitely disappear this fall no matter what. You want to do this as soon as the summer heat breaks in your area. Watch for evening temps to cool back down into the lower 60s or high 50s.

When you water new seed, do it every day, 3x per day, for only 10 minutes each time. Do that for a FULL 3 weeks to get KBG to germinate. When you have 80% germination (use your judgement), start to back off on the watering frequency and go up on the time. By the late fall you should only be watering monthly for an hour in every zone. If you can water monthly all winter that is good. In the spring continue with the monthly unless you get an inch of rain in that month. Watch the grass for signs that it cannot go a full month without another drink. When you see that immediately water and note the day. It might go another full month but watch it. Eventually you will move to every 3 weeks. Then every 2 weeks. Then every 10 days and then every 7 days. With a summer like we just had, you might to go every 5 days and sometimes 3 days if the humidity is real low and temps high. Coming back out of the summer watch it again. Stretch it out as soon as you can to get back into the monthly mode.

Put some cat food or tuna cans out around your yard. Put some right next to your sprinkler heads and others just scattered around. Water until they seem to be filled up. That is an inch. Note how long it takes. That is your starting point. You may need to water more or less depending on almost every environmental factor. Watch the cans next to the sprinklers. You may need to adjust the sprinklers to be sure you get wet evenly everywhere. I never had any luck with rain birds.

Since you said you have clay soil, I am assuming you have issues with water penetration. You can help that a lot by spraying with any clear shampoo at a rate of 3 ounces or more per 1,000 square feet. I just got some Alberto VO5 for a dollar per bottle (15 ounces). That's a lot less than even generic baby shampoo with the same ingredients. Spray that once now and then irrigate. Repeat in 2 weeks. That should soften the soil for the next year. When I say soften, it should be soft to walk on for a day or two/three after you water and then get very firm again before you water again. Hard soil is normal when the soil is dry. It is not normal when the soil is moist.

Let me make sure I'm getting this all right. I'm killing all weeds first then in two weeks power rake and re seed water three times a day for ten minutes a zone just to keep the seed wet and after spreading seed should I use a roller to firmly set the seed in the soil? As soon as the seed germinates back off on the watering to once a day and then back it down to a inch a month as it gets cooler. Should I use a starter fertilizer?

How about aerating it at any point? I'm not a pro at lawns but I wish I knew how to do this stuff I hate relying on others. So definitly kill weeds, power rake, re seed, and water. I feel like I have to restart but it cost so much money. Do we all agree on the steps?

I'm open to dchall tweeking this:
1.Kill weeds.- waite too weeks
2. Mow the areas to be seeded to 1" approx. -Mow existing lawn shorter if you are going to overseed the existing grass too. (pictures would really help for recomendations)
3. Power rake. (optional -going over the weedy or dead areas a couple times (not the existing good lawn) with the power rake will both bring up the dead matter and loosen the top 1/8-1/4 " layer of soil even if the power rake has flail blades)
4. Remove the debree (hand rake and bag mow) to reveal bare soil for good soil to seed contact.
5. Spread your seed. (optional-If the power rake has fixed blades you can go over the seed with the power rake to "slit seed" and bury the seed into furrows- I would not do this over any thick existing turf areas)
6. Topdress.
7.Roll (optional)
8.Apply starter fert.
Water as previously suggested.

Just out of curiosity the company that screwed up the lawn has agreed to fix it. I know I'm going to get crap for this ? But do allow them to do more then what they already did and by that I mean they slit seeded it in early June to try to see if it will grow some. They did say it will need to be addressed further in the fall. They also said that with my continuing work with the lawn and my watering regularly the lawn didn't burn and would recover and they would do more in the fall.

That would be your call.
(A few years back, I bought a new build. No clue about lawn care. Hired pros to do it. They started their 5 step system. What grass was there got green and did seem to be spreading some. Arranged for them to do aeration and seeding in the fall. When they hadn't showed up to overseed by late September, I found this site and started reading. From what I read here, optimum time for seeding in my area is late August-early September. When they told me I was scheduled for late October, (WTH-they did my neighbors in September) I fired them.)
You have been given the basic proceedure for overseeding/re-seedign (tiemco also gave a great write-up on renovation in the last 3-4 days on another thread--find it), so you are armed with some knowledge to judge if what they are going to do seems correct.
I would want to know:
1.When are they going to do it?
2.what are they going to do?
3.what seed are they going to use? (you are going to want to match the grasses that are already there)
4. do they have a reasonable explaination of what they did to screw up your lawn and why it happened?
5. why have they allowed the weed and CG to proliferate? (if they are still taking care of your lawn)
6. Are they willing to give you a cash settlement to compensate or is the only offer for them to do it?

I understand your position and I guess the only thing you have to lose by letting them fix it is the time until the next optimum seeding season if it doesn't work out. Good Luck.

They are going to reseed first week in September they said because of the weather seems to have shifted it was hot early and it's cooling down early so they want to get it reseeded first week in September so it has time to grow before it frosts. As far as seed I am going to demand to see and make sure it's the kbg I used in the first place. They said they didn't know that the grass was that new and accidentally over fertilized and hit it with a weed killer so the double treatment was just to much for the new grass to handle. They at going to slit seed the bear spots and over seed the whole lawn. They are going to fertilize the lawn with a light dose of starter fert. As far as the weeds they said that the weeds will die this fall and they will pre treat for spring to prevent new weeds from coming up. They also said that come spring I should airate to loosen up the soil to help the grass. My ? Is will all the weed die this fall and if they are pre treated next spring there will be bear spots on the lawn how can you fill those spots if they have been treated with chemicals to prevent weeds.

You are correct. pre-emergent will prevent seed germination, but maybe you wont have bare spots in the spring. Usually many weeds CG will die off after the first frost. I would use WBG Max if you can get it on 2 wks before they seed just to make sure weeds aren't competeing with the new grass. But that's me.

Weeds be gone is a good weed killer to use on all my weeds in the lawn

Weed B Gon Max with CG control is the best all around weed killer that also works on CG that I have found for established lawns. It works best on young CG but it does seem to at least hurt and in some cases even kill mature CG.

I have so many weeds I don't know where to start. This has got to be the most mad I've been in a long time.

Do you think the process of killing the weeds raking it out and slit seeding a tttf/kbg. Seed mix with a hay covering and proper watering is the way to go?

I can only guess what your lawn looks like. If it was me, I'd kill off the weeds (if there is two weeks between putting down WBG and the seeding as WBG can interfere with germination). If the lawnservice is not going to power rake before slit seeding, I would bag mow the whole lawn short and try to rake up some of the heavier dead weed areas to help reveal bare soil. Then I'd let the lawn service do whatever they are going to do. The most important thing for you to do is to make sure the seed stays moist (not puddle wet) until germination and then use proper watering proceedures thereafter. Remember it's a lawn, it might be a source of embarassment, but not life or death. If it doesn't work out there is always next year. I redid my lawn 3 times in 2 years before I learned how to do it right that 3rd time.

Thanks everyone I'm going to talk with the company and see if the will mow it really short and then rake out all the weeds then lay new seed. And I will keep it wet but not a puddle just moist till it germinates then slowly back it down. If this doesn't work I'll be here again talking to you great guys about how to attack it. Thanks again any other info will really help.

I realize you've asked a lot of unanswered questions. I have to get back to the office from lunch, but I'll see this one again tonight.

autograff. DO NOT use Weed B Gon as I advised. Please pst again prior to applying anything to your lawn.

I'm going to have the company mow my lawn low and rake it out then I am going to have them slit seed that I will provide them with I'm looking at midnight blue grass but not sure what's the best place to get it from so if anyone has good advice on that it will help Im going to need at least a 50lb bag they all say 3 pounds per 1000sq feet I have about 15000sq feet and then I am going to get them to spread a topping like hay or peat moss. Then it's just watering and waiting. Overhead here on a different forum that brakes down a watering schedule. It's 10-15 minutes 3 times a day for the first week then two times a week for the second week. Third week water once a day for 35-40 minutes

Good, so you wont be applying WBG. I mispoke (wont go into specifics of why) but WBG recomends 4 wks-not 2. Sorry for my stupidity.
My lawn is 50% midnight. Be aware that it took 3 wks to germinate and needed to be kept moist throughout the period of germination. Also know that midnight is an "older" elite cultivar. maybe tiemco will stop by and give you the advantages and disadvantages.

"Overhead here on a different forum that brakes down a watering schedule. It's 10-15 minutes 3 times a day for the first week then two times a week for the second week. Third week water once a day for 35-40 minutes"

I don't know if that is a good watering schedule for germinating KBG. I would think 4 times daily (8am, 11am, 2pm, 5pm) with short cycles to keep the seedbed moist until the KBG starts to germinate. KBG can take up to 3 weeks to germinate.

One other correction to make. It was suggested above that Pre-emergent herbicides will prevent seed germination, and that is not correct information. A Pre-emergent herbicide forms a barrier of active ingredient just below the soil surface. As a weed seed germinates and comes into contact with the herbicide barrier, it absorbs the herbicide and then dies. As time passes, the herbicide's active ingredient loses it's potency and the herbicide barrier begins to degrade. This is when crabgrass begins to appear. The way to overcome this is to re-apply the herbicide at the correct time interval, or use a herbicide with a longer residual.

So does everyone agree with just power raking clearing out the debri then slit seeding the newly raked soil with the kbg midnight and covering it with hay. Do I need a starter firtilizer? If anyone knows of who will provide the best kbg midnight that would help. I looked on seedland and Hancock seeds.

I stand corrected. I had no idea that pre-emergents (othrer than siduron and maybe Tenacity? and Drive?) only affect weed seed did not grass seed. My bad for being so lose with my words.

Staw, not hay.

Staw or straw just checking so I don't mess up not trying to be funny.

Straw, not hay.

I'll fix my previous post to (btw that's where I put the "r":
I stand corrected. I had no idea that pre-emergents (other than siduron and maybe Tenacity? and Drive?) only affect weed seed and not grass seed. My bad for being so lose with my words.

You seem to be getting advice from somewhere else, because at first you'll repeat back what we said and then you'll change everything to things we have not talked about.

Here is your plan from a few messages ago.

1. Kill weeds.- wait two weeks
2. Mow the areas to be seeded to 1" approx. -Mow existing lawn shorter if you are going to overseed the existing grass too. (pictures would really help for recommendations)
3. Power rake. (optional -going over the weedy or dead areas a couple times (not the existing good lawn) with the power rake will both bring up the dead matter and loosen the top 1/8-1/4 " layer of soil even if the power rake has flail blades)
4. Remove the debris (hand rake and bag mow) to reveal bare soil for good soil to seed contact.
5. Spread your seed. (optional-If the power rake has fixed blades you can go over the seed with the power rake to "slit seed" and bury the seed into furrows- I would not do this over any thick existing turf areas)
6. Topdress.
7. Roll (optional)
8. Apply starter fert.
Water as previously suggested.

1. Yes, do that with something like RoundUp. Use it VERY carefully because the overspray will kill your grass. Only use it in areas of dense weeds. The WBG is not good for new seed projects. Roundup is fine for new seed projects.

2. Your mower's lowest setting is good.

3. Any vertical cutting machine will work. If you are using a slit seeder, you can use that.

4. Or you can blow it off with a leaf blower. Blow it into a pile for compost.

5. Sounds okay.

6. Topdressing is not necessary. That seems to be local custom rather than a natural requirement. Mother Nature seeds by moving grazing type animals into an area, letting them knock the seed down onto the ground, and they trample it down. Observers have noticed that stampeded soil seems to sprout better seed. But there is no topdressing involved. If you insist on it, DO NOT USE HAY. Hay is full of seeds. The word you were looking for is STRAW. Use the wrong word at the feed store and you'll have a field of alfalfa instead of grass.

7. Rolling is not optional. Of all the elements of seeding this is the most important (after the seeding itself). If the area is small you can walk it down. The pressure from your feet is about the same as cattle, horses, camels, and everything else. Just walk on it.

8. Most people do. I believe tiemco likes starter fertilizer.

9. WATER 3X PER DAY (BREAKFAST, LUNCH, AND DINNER) FOR 3 FULL WEEKS. The recommendation you saw elsewhere was for rye grass which sprouts in 1 week. For fescue you can go 3x per day for 2 weeks because it sprouts in 2 weeks. KBG takes 3 weeks so keep the seed moist. Don't back off on the 3x per day until you see 80% germination. Now if your sprinkler can pump out an inch of water in 20 minutes, then you only need to water for 5 minutes or less each time. You don't want to saturate the soil every time. All you need to keep moist is the very top where the seeds are.

Where to buy seed:
Look at the Guaranteed Analysis that you are being offered. Look for Weed Seed and Other Crop. The smaller the amounts of those in your seed, the better and the more expensive it will be. If you can afford to get 0.00% on both, that is great! I have not explained this in a long time so I'll go into it. The problem with grass seed is most target lawn seed is pretty big and heavy. Seed is sold by weight not volume. With KBG you are usually in very good shape because those seeds are so light weight. With KBG you get about 2 million seeds per pound; however, with the fescues they are only around 800,000 seeds per pound. Now the real problem is that bentgrass, a valid turfgrass (and horrible weed), comes in at 6 million seeds per pound. It is dust. Any contamination in your seed by bentgrass will be a very serious headache for you. Bentgrass germinates in 1-2 weeks so you would be watering bentgrass plants for up to 2 weeks before your first KBG seeds germinated. Since bentgrass creeps around, it will eventually fill up your yard and put you back where you are now. If bentgrass were easier to deal with it would not be so bad.

You do not need to core aerate. EVER. Most lawn companies offer that service so they can make their boat payments throughout the winter. It is unnecessary. Go back and reread my suggestion to spray with shampoo. That really works. There is another forum where they have a recipe and sources to make your own soap that works better than shampoo, but really, unless you want a lifetime supply and you like playing junior chemist, just buy some shampoo for a dollar.

I believe your landscaper/lawn company is one of the better ones we read about here. Seeding a bare lot in the spring is sometimes necessary. I believe it was more your fault that it died than it was theirs. Watering is crucial for a spring lawn. Then they tried to fix it in June. Well, your choice was to have crabgrass from the spring die off or possibly pull this off with a June seeding. If they presented the alternatives, most people would give the second seeding a try. But again, watering a summer seeded lawn is even more critical. That is a job for a real seasoned lawn person. You have to watch it daily for signs of stress and then do exactly the right thing while the water is on. It's not simple. I think you gave it a good shot, but you were in trouble from the git-go with the spring and summer start. Fall seeding is much less hassle, much more reliable, and will be a better experience. So anyway, I would be tempted to let your people run with this project. You can provide the seeds from any source you are happy with. I think you are more aware of the process now and can sit back to observe. If they insist on core aerating, there is no harm, but the shampoo will do the job 100x better. You can do that now and surprise them at how soft the soil is when they come in to do the seeding.

Thanks that's what I'm going to do. One ? What's the best way to spray the shampoo?

Can I email any one of you guys pictures of the lawn and weeds so you can get the whole story and see what I'm dealing with. I would upload but my laptop is going haywire and it won't let me upload pictures so I'm stuck using my phone.

"I stand corrected. I had no idea that pre-emergents (other than siduron and maybe Tenacity? and Drive?) only affect weed seed and not grass seed. My bad for being so lose with my words."

Maybe I'm the one who needs to be corrected. I made my comment in reference to crabgrass weed control in the Spring, but Pre-emerge herbicides will control the emergence of both weed seedlings and grass seedlings. My bad for not stating my point more clearly.

If you do not already have a free Dropbox account, click this link and that should get you started. Dropbox is a cloud storage system that many people find easy to work with. You start with 2 GB of storage and, through various promotions, can work your way up to 18 GB of free, online storage. Frankly, if you use the link above, that is a promotion that will give you 500 MB more than if you had just set up an account by yourself.

Anyway, once you have a Dropbox account, it will automatically set up a Public folder on your computer. Then anything you put into that folder will have an associated link for universal access. I keep my photos in my Dropbox instead of uploading to the other online photo storage places. But if you remove the photo from your Public folder, it disappears from the Internet, too. That is okay for stuff you don't care about being permanent, but not so good for permanent reference.

I have three computers located about 100 miles apart. I sync them with Dropbox and always have the files I need. I realize I sound like a shill for Dropbox, but it is one of the really good programs I've found. And Hey! It's free. I also share the secrets of organic lawn care with people. I just like to share good stuff. There are many other cool features but then I would really sound like a shill.

nearandwest,
So you were correcting my use of the term germination? Guilty (and no offense taken). Sometimes I'm a little lose with terminology when I don't think it's important in getting a point across. I'm no student of plant biology. I suppose germination starts when the sleeping seed begins cellular activity inside the shell. Does germination stop when the sprout breaks through the shell? or when the sprout runs out of the foodstore contained in the seed and starts taking nutreints from the soil? or starts photo synthesis? I was just attempting to expess the point that most pre-emergents will kill the grass plant. Whenever possible I like to avoid Roe v. Wade viability discussions.

So then why do I make a big deal out of terminology like power rakes and slitseeders and vericutters/slicers? Because I want people to avoid costly mistakes. Rental places play fast and lose with these terms and manufacturers aren't much better. The first "power rake" I ever rented had fixed blades and the rental place explained that it came with a drop seeder attachment so I could also use it to slit seed or to loosen the top inch of soil for seeding by lowering it and making multiple passes. So a friend asks me what I did and how I loosened the soil. I told him to rent a power rake and lower to an inch deep. We weren't on speaking terms for months. Why? Because he borrowed a gas "power rake" and followed my directions. It turns out the rake he borrowed had tines, not blades, and he broke nearly every one of them trying to cut into the soil. It cost him 2 dollars for each broken tine--something like $50 and he still hadn't finished his lawn. I then researched these machines and learned how many different versions are called "power rakes'" So now I try to explain that tines and flail blades are for dethatching and nothing else and fixed blades can be used for dethatching, verticutting/slicing and slitseeding BUT you need look because all can be labeled "power rake."

Dchall I sent you some pictures to the email provided on this website your home page.

Excellent lesson in power rakes. Thanks grass. We should be telling people to rent one with fixed blades and not tines.

Here are autograff's pictures. I'm heading out on a trip but will have a computer later.

{{gwi:112948}}

{{gwi:112949}}

{{gwi:112950}}

{{gwi:112951}}

Ok, my participation in this thread has strayed away from assisting autograff323. I'll get back on topic.

ditto.

Any thoughts on the pictures? Oh I am going to do a 60x60 field for my kids soccer it is in a really shady area I was thinking a tall fescue. I am doing it myself doing it right this time getting all the info first then attacking it new soil just getting the info on the best seed I read a tall fescue does well in shady areas and it will be good for soccer practices. Thoughts and help is appreciated. Thanks so much for the help the front lawn is something I'm in a real bind on because I didn't know enough befor I had someone install the lawn in spring they said that was ok but if they told me its better to attempt a lawn in the fall I would have waited. I also don't think I was clear about the company that screwed the lawn up they were hired after the lawn was put in to maintain it. I did this because I didn't want to mess up with fertilizer and burn it but they did it for me. I gave them all the info on what the guy did when he installed the lawn and they didn't listen and fertilized and put weed killer they even admitted they were wrong. But this soccer field is all me. I still can use everyone's advice.

Ref. The Soccer Field;

Define "really shady" ???

Turf type tall fescue is the most shade tolerant, but is not a shade grass. It actually does best in full sun. In shade it is also going to be less traffic tolerant than it would be in full sun.

For true shade you would want to look at fine fescues - creeping and chewing.

With that being said, you say it is a field for soccer which I would assume you will not have trees as defenders, so I couldn't imagine it having deep shade. More then likely tall fescue will work well and have great foot traffic tolerance. Just remember if they will be sliding and kicking ruts of grass off, you will need to overseed as fescue does not spread fast (if at all). In this scenario I'd recommend having a small amount of KBG mixed in. Again, this all goes back to how much shade though..

It is a field surrounded by tall oak trees it gets the sun but through the trees and as the sun goes down in the back yard it gets a little more full.