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julianna_il

Nematodes - experiences? advice?

19 years ago

I have a bad problem with cucumber beetles. The beetles don't do that much chewing damage, but they infect all of my cucumbers and melons with disease. The cukes die of bacterial wilt and the melons, the same plus some kind of mosaic virus.

Last year I was attacked by all kinds of bugs, but the cucumber beetles were most devastating. By the time I realized what I had, they'd invaded. I tried everything organic, but they beat me.

This year, I'm going on the attack. (Organically)

Two things to start with, and hopefully prevent them: nematodes and ladybugs. I'm also going to try some resistant varieties of cucumbers and melons (what I can find).

So my question (long to get here, I know) is nematodes. From what I've read, Heterorhabditis marelatus is the most aggressive toward cucumber beetles. It also has the added bonus of infecting flea beetles, an ongoing pest I have. (They infest me, but the only damage is ornamental to my eggplants...doesn't hurt the fruit and I squirt them with soapy water)

Has anyone used Heterorhabditis marelatus? Results?

And when do I apply it? I know to apply early morning or evening, but I mean what month...I live in Zone 6, near St. Louis.

Do I apply before I work the soil or after, before I start adding my compost or after?

They're expensive, so I want to get this right.

Comments (13)

  • 19 years ago

    Do the nematodes attack the beetles or just their larvae? I suspect it is the latter and as a result I doubt you will get much control. They will simply fly in (they can travel long distances) from elsewhere.

    In the north they often don't overwinter successfully anyway, they migrate in from the south each year.

  • 19 years ago

    Definitely just the larvae.

    This is helpful info...I hadn't thought about migration and how that wouldn't necessarily mean they'd start out in the soil as eggs. Though I'd never seen a cucumber beetle before (maybe because I didn't know to look, or maybe I thought they were fancy ladybugs) until this last year. We had a very mild winter and everyone said it was a bad year for bugs.

    Maybe I should just do the ladybugs and then focus on companion plants plus wilt-resistant cucumbers?

  • 19 years ago

    The only wilt resistant cuke I know of is County Fair. There are other varieties that produce less cucurbitacin. The idea is that the cuke beetles are attracted to curcurbitacin so those that produce less are less attractive. Your mileage may vary with this.

    While the beetles are able to travel, you can certainly see if simply preventing the first wave of adults offers any control for you. A row cover applied at planting time and kept on for as long as is practical should prevent the overwintering adults from laying eggs near the plants. Again, your mileage may vary.

    Also, maybe you will have a 'good year' this year, who knows? Cuke beetles are a challenge. I can't count on cukes in my garden as there are so many around. They also seem to like my beans for whatever reason if I don't plant any cukes/mellons. Go figure.

    Wish I had better advice for you, but these things are a challenge organically or otherwise.

    Currently there are products in development that are promising. They are bait traps filled with attractants and pesticide (organic or otherwise). Unfortunately while I have read of these products, I haven't yet seen any on the market.

  • 19 years ago

    Guy, that County Fair is exactly the cucumber I'd come across, both here in the forums and Googling.

    My plan is to grow that, plus another variety, release a batch of ladybugs at the start of the season, plant radishes, tansy and nastursiums and go on watch for them. Now that I know about them, at least I know what to watch for.

    I'm thinking I probably had them before, because it always seems towards late July/early August, my cucumbers wilt off. I just didn't realize it was wilt until last year, when I really got into organic gardening. Plus, I used to use Sevin a lot.

    There's a bait called Adios I read about that's supposed to be very good for these bugs...it has the cucurbitacin to attract them and only them, and it's in pellets they eat. It doesn't melt into the ground (so they say) and the bees and other bugs won't bother it.

    But the killer inside the pellets is Sevin, so it kind of defeats the idea of organic gardening.

    I thought row covers were to protect the seedlings, and I don't seem to have any problems until mid summer. But you make a good point about using them to prevent egg laying. So I may read up on them and give them a try.

    I'm still mortified that when I saw my first one last year, I got excited thinking it was a special kind of ladybug. I treated it with kindness. ROFL.

    I'd never even heard of cucumber beetles, but came inside to google this yellow ladybug...and then the horror began.

  • 19 years ago

    Yes, Adios (I can't find it anywhere) contains Sevin, but the reading I have done on it said that it's effectiveness was being trialled with less toxic pesticides including organic products so hopefully something makes it to the market that can offer us some relief from these nasties.

    I would like to just be able to buy the traps without pesticide and then I can experiment on my own with whatever I am comfortable with.

  • 19 years ago

    I just came across an article that said Adios isn't being made anymore. Guess it wasn't so good. LOL. (Or nobody bought it, who knows!)

    I found this interesting article that talks quite a bit about traps and other organic methods...

    http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/cucumberbeetle.html

    I'm not sure if it was this article or another I was reading that talked about nematodes and a different variety than I was looking at. But it said the worst damage of wilt comes from the emerging bugs that have overwintered. They apparently overwinter in host weeds that have the wilt bacteria but aren't hurt by it. They pick it up there and then transmit to our plants.

    It also said one kind overwinters and the other migrates from the south. Spotted vs. striped but I don't remember which was which. I had both kinds last year. Ugh.

    Here is a link that might be useful: Cucumber Beetle Control

  • 19 years ago

    I've never had to deal with cucumber beetle but I have put out a lot of nematodes.
    I've read that Steinernema's are also effective. I've used them for several years against cranberry girdle. Last year I put out close to 250 billion both thru chemigation and by helicopter. If you have a serious problem, 3billion/acre is the recommended dose.
    Follow sellers directions and you should get around 2 weeks of control. Just remember, if they dry out, they are dead.
    Nematodes control target pests quite well but they need to be cared for.
    From my experience, crops that don't like their soil moist for extended periods are a poor candidate for nematodes

  • 19 years ago

    Um, guess what comes up when you google cranberry girdle? ROFL. I obviously don't know cranberries, though I did visit a bog once when I was visiting Mass. Cool thing, that bog.

    I had no idea nematodes could be applied by helicopter...that must be EXPENSIVE! Are they mixed in water and then sprayed onto the ground?

  • 19 years ago

    Julianna, sorry about that, unintentional I assure you.
    Cranberry girdler is a pest on many crops and I use nematodes to control them. Steinernema are always mixed with water and sprayed.
    Cost is an issue but, using nematodes is never a cheap option. It's all relative though. The reason we use a helicoptor is because of the speed, control and accuracy of the application. We fly them on at 1billion/acre then double or triple do hot spots within each field. The same thing can be achieved by a home gardner with a back-pack sprayer.
    Nematodes are easy to apply but they require care in order to be effective.

  • 19 years ago

    Oh that's hilarious! I didn't realize it was girdler...I really thought it was called girdle. You're obviously not the only one with a typo, because the first thing that came up under girdle was about cranberry pests. After that was a list of red girdles. (I didn't know anyone still wore those)

    Now you've got me really curious. Why a helicopter and not a crop duster? Maybe crop dusters are a midwestern thing.

    How many acres do you have? I've always been so fascinated by cranberries. Plus I'm a cranberry juice addict....best stuff in the world.

    What I read about the girdle(r) is that the nematodes really do a great job on them.

  • 19 years ago

    Girdle is what they do, but enough about that.
    The reason we use helicoptors are many, the acreages are small, from 20 to 100 acres and we rarely do the whole farm. Not everyone has an airstrip on their property so turnaround times are important. A helicoptor flies so low that the prop wash forces the spray containing the nematodes deep into the canopy away from UV light and into zones where they will come in contact with the target and
    remain alive.

  • 19 years ago

    Entrust is labeled for organic production and the pests you have on your cukes. It is SPINOSAD. This will work on contact and ingestion.

    Here is a link that might be useful: ENTRUST Site

  • 19 years ago

    OMG, why haven't we heard of this product before?

    It's toxic to bees up to three hours after use, but in a quick reading, seems to be okay for other beneficials. You'd want to use it at night when the bees aren't out.

    I'm going to have to read more (and more carefully) to fully understand what this spinosad is...sounds like it's a something that occurs after some kind of fermentation. That's about all I got from the first brief read. LOL.

    I've not wanted to use pyrethrins because of the toxicity to bees and others, but this one might actually hold some promise. Have you ever used it?

    Thank you!

    Here is a link that might be useful: more info on spinosad