I don't remember exactly, but I think Jerry's Growth used to contain Ethanol or some sort of alcohol. It's not available anymore, since Jerry retired. I remember a posting on how to do his mix and it had Ethanol as one of it's ingredients. If you have seem some of Jerry's plant pictures, they would blow your mind, specially his laelia purpuratas.

There's a dude out there named Jerry Baker who has a few books and DVD's about homemade garden tonics, pesticides and just about everything else in between. If I remember correctly, all these recipes came from someone named Grandma Putts. Some people call him a quack, others swear by his concoctions. Anyhow, I once watched one of his DVD's and remember him using beer and possibly vodka or bourbon in some plant remedy, but I don't remember the details. You might want to Google his name and see what you find.

Kevin

Um. Why alcohol? Wouldn't that just burn the orchid and draw OUT the orchid's moisture as it evaporates?

Quite a while ago I used Jerry's Grow and my Catts loved it. There were no ingredients list on the container, but I think it contained methanol. Alcohol is supposed to make the roots more permeable to nutrients, but I wouldn't recommend giving them a shot of vodka neat..

From personal experience with seaweed extract: I wasn't getting good results, and later discovered that this type of fertilizer doesn't break down quickly, and for slow growing plants like orchids, it can result in burned roots. I now use it about every 2-3 months, because I like to give the 'chids some variety in their diet.

Cheers!

Jerry Baker is big on using beer in some of his concoctions. I think it's the sugar as an energy source that he's after but I wasn't able to find anything on his website to confirm. In reference to the hard alcohol here's an interesting article from Cornell Univ.

http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/March06/drunk.flowers.ssl.html

"While solutions greater than 10 percent alcohol were toxic, solutions between 4 and 6 percent alcohol stunted the paperwhites effectively," said Miller.... "When the liquor is properly used, the paperwhites we tested were stunted by 30 to 50 percent, but their flowers were as large, fragrant and long-lasting as usual," added Miller, whose new study on how alcohol inhibits houseplant growth will be published in the April issue of HortTechnology, a peer-reviewed journal of horticulture.

The jest of the article is that alcohol prevents plants from getting too tall and top heavy with blooms by stunting the leaf and stem growth but not the flower growth.

I also found reference to using rubbing alcohol as pest control.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/House-Plants-721/Rubbing-alcohol.htm

"I am a master gardener. I have raised 300 or more houseplants every year for the last 20 years. For the last 17 years I have sprayed many of those plants with undiluted rubbing alcohol on the foliage and poured it on the soil. This has included jades infested with mealy bugs. Jades are extremely sensitive to pesticides. I have also recommended rubbing alcohol to a lot of people on All Experts. I have never had a plant damaged from it, not even jades (crassula). I have never had anyone that I advised to use it come back and tell me that it damaged their plants."

I know many who have used Jerry Grow in the past and swear by it, and some who don't swear by it. However, if I remember correctly, it was only a drop or two of his formula in a gallon of water. At that dilution rate, the alcohol was just a TRACE, not a shot.

I suspect it was the wee amount of alcohol (as in sugar) which made the difference -- if you were of the group who thought it really worked.

I have never been aware of any damage from alcohol except on flowers. I spay it freely and use both straight alcohol and a soap/alcohol/water mix.

It works well as an insecticide but doesn't last beyond the 15 minutes it takes to evaporate. It is a great option if you have kids, pets and a small number of plants.

I don't include alcohol in the fertilizer mix.

I suppose that in an enclosed space, vodka would be a better option than rubbing alcohol which makes you sick if you drink it. And if you include a touch of vermouth it makes a good story about feeding the bugs martinis so they get drunk and fall off the plant.

Here is a link that might be useful: My blog

I've never heard about using alcohol on any plant, but I've heard of using beer in a pop or mayo lid to kill slugs. One of my Hort. professors swore by it. The slugs are attracted to the sugar in the beer, but, when they get to it, it basically eats them like an acid.

I recently ran across some urea-free fertilizer for orchids. It is called Better-Gro. I did not buy it, but I wrote the web addy on my husband's hand so I could further research it. I currently use Jack's Classic. The Better-Gro is endorsed by the AOS so there must be something to it....

Anyone currently using Better-Gro? There were two different fertilizers: Orchid Plus and Orchid Bloom Booster. On the back of the Orchid Plus it says to use it everytime you water and, every third (or maybe fourth) watering, to use the Orchid Bloom Booster.

They offer media, fertilizer and more. I am *not* endorsing or promoting this. I did buy the medium to see if I'd like it better than Schultz Orchid mix b/c I don't want to buy a huge bag of charcoal for three orchids. I have not tried it yet, however.

Here is a link that might be useful: Better-Gro

Hey Nick

I was meaning to ask you. Did the grower happen to give any idea on how much alcohol per gallon or other unit of measure?

Gaston

Jerry's Grow directions were not one drop, but 1 Tbsp. (3 tsp.) per gallon for Catts and other high light orchids, provided they did receive the optimum amount of high light, or 2 tsp. if the light was lower; 2 tsp. for genera that preferred lower light, and 1 tsp. for those really low light lovers.

Yes, I know the connection between alchohol and sugars for the plants. Before I started growing orchids, I made up a quantity of "homemade" fertilizer, using white sugar, epsom salts and granulated fertilizer for our veggies, esp. the tomatoes and cumcumbers, and it worked very well.

Beer contains trace amounts of some B vitmains, which can be benefical to plants. Judging from the odour, I suspect Superthrive has B vitamins.

Carol

Our OS had a speaker who advised treating your plants to a 'cocktail' and they'd be 'happy'. His recipe called for only a 1/4 tsp (I used Everclear) per gallon along with ST & balanced urea free plant food. I can't say I noticed a difference, then like you said Nick, you'd have to do a controlled study of at least two identical plants...I'm much too lazy/busy to spend my time doing that.

Had numerous responses, will try to summarize. Several of our members used alcohol in the past but stopped doing so as they failed to see an obvious difference.

They and the grower giving the talk recommended a cup in 5 gallons which then gets sent through a 16 to 1 Syphonex resulting in 80 gallons final mix. The grower buys cheap bulk Vodka, the members who used it in the past got Methanol from auto race shops. Careful, that's the stuff that burns with no visible flame.

I have heard nothing but good about Jerry Grow and also have heard a lot and read a lot of internet stuff about beer. Vit B complxe is definitely part of beer and no doubt a good portion of Super Thrive which is hellishly expensive.

I went to an ethnic low price neighborhood market and after learning the language (not Spanish) bought 1/2 gallon of some rotgut vodka for $8.00. You can actually drink it, its not Stolie and burns all the way down, keeps burning for a while.

So once a week its going to be Urea free Grow More (20/10/20), Super Thrieve (may replace that with beer), some Sea Weed Extract and a shot of Vodka. At first the routine is going to be one shot of Vodka for me, one for the orchids. On bad days 2 for me, one for the orchids, on really bad days 3 for me, none for the orchids.

I have also heard mention that it produces over growth which results in weakened plants which tend to collapse in the near future. Will keep my ears open and watch the plants carefully.

I think we are in for a great growing season, its still March and everything is one the move all ready.

Nick

Why not just use sugar then in the fertilizer? I've gotten great results (with rooting cuttings) when I used sugar.

I use urea free fert. I use the Grow-More line.

Oh Good Lord People! Just learn how to give your plants what they want from nature and stop looking for a magic potion! Learn to give them as much light as possible. Learn to use the proper potting media for your watering habits. Learn how to repot properly. Learn how to grow orchids! Use fertilizer yes but don't let it be a substitute for good growing techniques.

I don't say this to be mean, but I say it to help you.

OK, I know you're going to ask me, "OK, so what fertilizer do I use?" For plants outdoor for most or all year, I've used Nutricote. Apply once in spring and that's it. For indoor plants, you can use Nutricote if you tend to flush your plants well when you water. Otherwise, use a balanced fertilizer with less phosphorus such as 10-5-10 or 5-2-5. The latest research (Michigan State) shows that we've historically fed with too much phosphorus. No research has ever found that changing formulas during the year will cause an orchid to flower.

not completely sure but i think the sugars found in alcohol are ultra simple there by making it easier for the orchid to utilize? and besides the ethyl component in the ethanol, could possibly help the up take of other nutrients being that the C2 H5 component is also a pretty potent solvent on it's own

Gaston

This is probably a well known solution...Sometimes when I've bought bare-root plants from South American vendors, they've advised me to soak them before planting in a sugar-water solution (have forgotten the ratio but think it's around 1 tsp. sugar to 1-2 cups water) for a few hours.

Carol

I used to use Jerry's Grow -- never was exceptionally impressed, and certainly didn't get the results like he posted on his website. The thing that annoyed me the most was the ingredients fell out of solution, and could not be re-dissolved.

I also used to use SuperThrive. However, after confirming that it caused malformed flowers, I stopped using it as well.

Osmocote is not temperature-stable, and doesn't work well (or at all) for orchids that are in baskets or mounted.

I'm satisfied with MiracleGro African Violet concentrate, and an occasional treatment with seaweed extract, although I never see "blow-you-away" results directly attributed to supplementation. Just good growth, regular blooming, etc.

-Bruce

Superthrive causes malformed flowers? Was this something you confirmed through direct observation, through a study/experiment someone else had done, or both? I'm curious, because I've been using it, but not so long that I could make such an observation. And like most everyone else, I'd prefer not to have malformed flowers down the line when I get them...

I am not looking for the magic bullet but if there is a better way of doing things, its worth trying. Basic good orchid care will give you great plants, improving on that becomes a game.

I was very much into Horse Manure at one point, had a lot of fun promoting it. Actually grew plants in it, works well but leaches out until you have nothing left but undigested straw so is of no practical value. I still give my plants a shot of 'Horse Tea' once in a while. Does it give superior plants? Who knows, I'm sure its not hurting and I'm happy with my results. Did I improve my over all results with that HS experience? Probably not but I had a lot of fun with it. I also use Epsom Salts periodically. In one word anything and everything that is beneficial is on the table. Since I have a free supply of Birth Control Pills I grind those up and add that to them mix occasionally. If Ahnold got big biceps from steroids maybe my plants will benefit also. No unwanted pregnancies recorded.

When I hear of something new which this alcohol business is, I throw it out there for discussion to learn from other people. I'm not looking for the 'Holy Grail', I leave that to Monty Python.

I remember once buying some plants from Cal Orchids and asking James Rose what to grow this one in and what's best for that one. He cut me off and said: "IT ALL WORKS". With good basic care that's probably correct but then what would some of us do with our extra 'Busy Time'?

Keep on trucking but don't let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy,

Nick

quinnfyre -- I confirmed the problem with SuperThrive through my own tests, although, a few years back there was a discussion on this Forum about it, with others noting the same issue. It's not something that becomes apparent unless you have a fairly good-sized collection and have lots of regular bloomers.

The deformities occur during the budding process, if ST is applied during that time. I don't believe there is any cumulative effect, such that an application of ST during another part of the season would affect flowers months later.

It doesn't seem to occur on all types of orchids, and larger-flowered types seem more prone to deformity than smaller. ST probably has uses, especially for tiny deflasked plantlets, and perhaps rooting keikis. But for normal, healthy plants, I wouldn't bother.

-Bruce

Bruce is right on the money. Superthrive is very powerful and should not be used in strong doses or too frequently. Overdosing is what can cause deformities. Also, Superthrive tells a plant to grow roots, not flowers. When used during budding it confuses the plant.

Liquid Seaweed, or kelp, being a vegetable product, is full of micronutrients, very good for plants, and easily taken up and utilized by them and they trive on it.

Fish emulsion, being an animal product, is very caustic to orchid roots.

Because they're both from the sea, many people mistakenly lump the two in the same category, while they're vastly different.

While alcohol is pure sugar and easily taken up by the plant, another good sugar to use is molasses, which has natural rooting qualities.

Sorry I will disagree with both Bruce and orchid126. I do have a fairly good sized collection and do have lots of regular bloomers.

I have successfully used SuperThrive on my orchids ever since I grew my first orchid. I was introduced to the product when I was heavy into bonsai and the Big Boys in bonsai swear by it.

I use it every watering - on every type orchid I grow - big, small and in between - cool growers, warm growers, intermediate growers - mounts - potted in all types of different media - it doesn't matter.

I do admit though, I follow the directions and do not over dose - 4-6 drops per gallon along with MSU fertilizer for pure water.

TMatt - You're right - the basics are critical. And IMO, everyone else is right, too - the basics plus puttering may help a bit and offers variety for our brains and reasons to talk to other orchid folks. Same w/ the diets of the dogs and cats in our critter crew.

Maybe the animal and plant kingdoms humor the hapless humans while we amuse ourselves w/ (usually) harmless concoctions to make *them* better.

Bruce - You may be the one who said you had fine results w/ AV fertilizer. I went looking, but in the Mpls/St. Paul area, the 2 brands readily available were high in phosphorus.

In a Kroger grocery store, of all places, in Little Rock, Arkansas on a visit to my see Dad, the orchid antennae honed in on Miracle-Grow liquid, 7-7-7. It was a third of the way across the store, and DH was patient when I *had* to go check out that bottle.

Thanks for the tip.

Whitecat8

I see the Urea free stuff has surfaced again. I trust the fertilizer makers and the various forms of Nitrogen must be in most fertilizers for a reason. The reasons were discussed in a long thread on this forum some time ago (i think last year).

Whitecat, i like the term puttering. Most orchid growers like to do a bit of puttering.

I have a question about Iron Chelates. Has anyone used it and is it beneficial?